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  1. #11
    Senior Member Chris_in_Orbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    Why I can't cry in front of people? Well... umm... I just cannot! Um... Maybe, because I think it's something private? And sometimes I think crying publicly is an act begging for comfort. I won't say that I don't need help or comfort from friends, but crying for it probably is not my choice.
    Ok, this is Fi to the max.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_Orbit View Post
    Ok, this is Fi to the max.
    S-so, I may be an INFJ? I can't really put myself into INFP...

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    Senior Member Chris_in_Orbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    Ummm... What sort of information do you want?

    I myself figure out INFP in the very first time too, but the profile go extremely wrong on me. I don't avoid conflicts. Actually I love debating. And if one thing is correct, I'll go into lengthy explanation explaining why I think it's correct with sensible (just to avoid biased word like "logical) arguments.

    As I said before, besides arts, I love science at the same time. At least I love discussing matters on science (more philosophical side) with people.

    But if I do really sounds like an INFP, I welcome clear explanation. One more thing to note, I don't accept any statement without reasoning and support. But as long as there are possibilities, I won't dismiss them.

    Thanks again.
    You will find the more you look on this forum that most INFPs don't agree with the common profile of INFP. You definitely show INXP, and the way you talk about the arts and not crying in public is typical of introverted feeling. You may think it is indicative of T; this couldn't be further from the truth. You have rationalized why you haven't cried in public (in a way which I think shows you have developed feeling)

    You also like to debate. I've seen this trait in INFPs quite often, in fact it is probably a good outlet for the values that you create. If the only reason you think you are -not- an INFP is because the description doesn't fit, then I would suggest you look into the functions.. you just sound like an Idealist to me.

  4. #14
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    But if I do really sounds like an INFP, I welcome clear explanation. One more thing to note, I don't accept any statement without reasoning and support. But as long as there are possibilities, I won't dismiss them.

    Thanks again.
    Well, because my Ti says so. More clarification, and I'll give specifics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_Orbit View Post
    Ok, this is Fi to the max.
    Yup, sounds very Fi to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    I myself figure out INFP in the very first time too, but the profile go extremely wrong on me. I don't avoid conflicts. Actually I love debating. And if one thing is correct, I'll go into lengthy explanation explaining why I think it's correct with sensible (just to avoid biased word like "logical) arguments.

    As I said before, besides arts, I love science at the same time. At least I love discussing matters on science (more philosophical side) with people.
    Could you give specifics? What types of issues do you debate, and more importantly, why? Is it because they're important to you, because of the effect upon humanity, because it's interesting, because you want to learn, because it'll help you achieve your goals, because you can't stand sitting by when people make wrong statements? It's probably some combination, but which of these do you identify with most?

    Also, what ^ said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    S-so, I may be an INFJ? I can't really put myself into INFP...
    Only if you use Socionic's function order, which has FiNe for INFj, and NiFe for INFP. MBTI uses the reverse. Course, it's possible that you could be INFj and INFP under the respective systems.

    I agree with MBTI btw.


    For contrast:

    The reason I like the arts is because it's interesting. I enjoy the mental exercise of it. It's like a puzzle for me, trying to figure out the exact right piece to go in the position (like what I'm doing now, actually. You are a puzzle to me, and I'm figuring you out). Discovering the "internal logic" of something. And I don't cry in public for the simple reason that I don't like (makes me feel vulnerable) showing emotions, particularly negative ones in public.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_Orbit View Post
    You will find the more you look on this forum that most INFPs don't agree with the common profile of INFP. You definitely show INXP, and the way you talk about the arts and not crying in public is typical of introverted feeling. You may think it is indicative of T; this couldn't be further from the truth. You have rationalized why you haven't cried in public (in a way which I think shows you have developed feeling)

    You also like to debate. I've seen this trait in INFPs quite often, in fact it is probably a good outlet for the values that you create. If the only reason you think you are -not- an INFP is because the description doesn't fit, then I would suggest you look into the functions.. you just sound like an Idealist to me.
    Yes I must admit that I'm an idealist myself (just by looking on the word "idealist"... does it has special meaning in MBTI?)

    Uum yes I have feelings. I'm not robot right. But, uh, I don't know. When I look at functions, Ni describes me best, while Ti and Fi seems equally plausible to me. I do keep emotions to myself. But at the same time I always criticize on things. Educational system, why the uni I'm attending sucks, why people aren't making sense, how people always misunderstand things, why the lyrics in most love songs suck, why most pop singers cannot sing well... Argh. =/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Could you give specifics? What types of issues do you debate, and more importantly, why? Is it because they're important to you, because of the effect upon humanity, because it's interesting, because you want to learn, because it'll help you achieve your goals, because you can't stand sitting by when people make wrong statements? It's probably some combination, but which of these do you identify with most?

    Also, what ^ said.
    I like to debate on... evolution (I know it has become a hot topic because of 200th anniversary of Darwin but please don't feel hard on this issue at this moment), time & space, whether God exists (I'm not atheist, please don't bug me), purpose of freewill, why evil exists, should be kill one person in exchange of 11 people's lives... And it's interesting to exchange different point of view with people, so that I can learn different perspectives. But I cannot bear people making wrong statement too. I cannot stop myself from pointing out logical flaw in people's arguments. Umm but WHY I'd engage into a debate? Maybe because I want to know the truth... know what's real & exists... To have a conclusion after a debate. If there is no, then at least I have to know that "there aren't any conclusions on this issue" and how other people view on this issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Only if you use Socionic's function order, which has FiNe for INFj, and NiFe for INFP. MBTI uses the reverse. Course, it's possible that you could be INFj and INFP under the respective systems.

    I agree with MBTI btw.


    For contrast:

    The reason I like the arts is because it's interesting. I enjoy the mental exercise of it. It's like a puzzle for me, trying to figure out the exact right piece to go in the position (like what I'm doing now, actually. You are a puzzle to me, and I'm figuring you out). Discovering the "internal logic" of something. And I don't cry in public for the simple reason that I don't like (makes me feel vulnerable) showing emotions, particularly negative ones in public.
    Ummm =/ I like playing jigsaw puzzles tho. Art for me it's about expressing opinion. Expressing feeling is kind of... Impossible. Maybe I can reproduce certain mood but, expressing an idea is more important to me. A message, something true on humanity.

  7. #17
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    Yes I must admit that I'm an idealist myself (just by looking on the word "idealist"... does it has special meaning in MBTI?)
    Not MBTI directly, but Keirsey's 4 temperaments, one of which is called Idealist (NF).

    Uum yes I have feelings. I'm not robot right. But, uh, I don't know. When I look at functions, Ni describes me best, while Ti and Fi seems equally plausible to me. I do keep emotions to myself. But at the same time I always criticize on things. Educational system, why the uni I'm attending sucks, why people aren't making sense, how people always misunderstand things, why the lyrics in most love songs suck, why most pop singers cannot sing well... Argh. =/
    Have feelings, not a robot? NT is right out.

    ....

    Kidding (mostly).

    And it could be possible your experiencing something like this:

    When people read Lenore's descriptions of types and attitudes, or even the attempts at exegesis posted on this site, they seldom recognize themselves in their dominant function. The reaction is usually something like, "Whah? Maybe sorta kinda, but this hardly seems like me."

    A dominant function, after all, is your main universe of description, and a universe of description does not include itself. It's the lens, not what you see. The dominant function is so ingrained in your personality that you might think that everyone has it also. Jung says that he took a while to figure out that not everyone else was an Introverted Thinker (has anyone else seen this quote or know where it is?). Since everyone has arms, you wouldn't say "I'm a person with arms" when you describe yourself. Same with the dominant function[....]

    First, people do usually identify with descriptions of their secondary function. Watching the INTJ and INTP discussion lists, people who are new to the theory often mistake their secondary function for their dominant function. INTJs, for example, often think of themselves as primarily rational in the sense of being "systematic", and reasonably infer that "thinking", perhaps "introverted thinking", would be their dominant function. INTPs often think of themselves as primarily imaginative, outside-the-box thinkers, and reasonably infer that "intuition", perhaps "introverted intuition", would be their dominant function.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    I like to debate on... evolution (I know it has become a hot topic because of 200th anniversary of Darwin but please don't feel hard on this issue at this moment), time & space, whether God exists (I'm not atheist, please don't bug me), purpose of freewill, why evil exists, should be kill one person in exchange of 11 people's lives... And it's interesting to exchange different point of view with people, so that I can learn different perspectives. But I cannot bear people making wrong statement too. I cannot stop myself from pointing out logical flaw in people's arguments. Umm but WHY I'd engage into a debate? Maybe because I want to know the truth... know what's real & exists... To have a conclusion after a debate. If there is no, then at least I have to know that "there aren't any conclusions on this issue" and how other people view on this issue.
    Hmm. I like debates. Some of my favorite topics are evolution and God (though I am an atheist). I do find "purpose of freewill, why evil exists, should be kill one person in exchange of 11 people's lives" interesting, but not nearly as much. Those seem like "F-topics". Dealing with humanity and ethics, and certainly evolution and God can have quite a bit of effect on that as well. Do you enjoy debating more impersonal things, like "pure science" debates, logic problems, legal (from a strict correct/incorrect within the law view), politics (from a strict efficiency view)?

    Ummm =/ I like playing jigsaw puzzles tho. Art for me it's about expressing opinion. Expressing feeling is kind of... Impossible. Maybe I can reproduce certain mood but, expressing an idea is more important to me. A message, something true on humanity.
    Actually, jigsaw puzzles themselves I don't like, heh.

    Impossibility of expressing feeling? Sounds Fi. You can't express it, because it's impossible, you can make approximations, but it can't capture the full essence of it. But you can portray ideas, new perspectives, something that challenges peoples perceptions and gets them to think about themselves and others, and could cause them to change their position, to realize the bigger picture outside of just themselves. Do you relate to this, or am I just rambling?
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    I like to debate on... evolution (I know it has become a hot topic because of 200th anniversary of Darwin but please don't feel hard on this issue at this moment), time & space, whether God exists (I'm not atheist, please don't bug me), purpose of freewill, why evil exists, should be kill one person in exchange of 11 people's lives... And it's interesting to exchange different point of view with people, so that I can learn different perspectives. But I cannot bear people making wrong statement too. I cannot stop myself from pointing out logical flaw in people's arguments. Umm but WHY I'd engage into a debate? Maybe because I want to know the truth... know what's real & exists... To have a conclusion after a debate. If there is no, then at least I have to know that "there aren't any conclusions on this issue" and how other people view on this issue.





    Ummm =/ I like playing jigsaw puzzles tho. Art for me it's about expressing opinion. Expressing feeling is kind of... Impossible. Maybe I can reproduce certain mood but, expressing an idea is more important to me. A message, something true on humanity.
    You couldn't be any more INFP, if you wanted to be. None of this this sounds INTPish at all. It may be possible that you just value logic and truth a lot? T's are usually objective and truth-seeking, have an impersonal approach to life. F's are usually subjective, value/people-oriented, and have a personal approach to life.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDK123 View Post
    You couldn't be any more INFP, if you wanted to be. None of this this sounds INTPish at all. It may be possible that you just value logic and truth a lot? T's are usually objective and truth-seeking, have an impersonal approach to life. F's are usually subjective, value/people-oriented, and have a personal approach to life.
    What does it mean by objective? After learning Psychology it seems to me that there aren't objective reality at all. What we know what we sense what we think / feel are all censored by our brains - what is objectivity? And for me, being objective is just following most ppl's decision (say, objectivity is the collective subjective view of majority). But for me, the most important thing is to make sense. "Objectivity" alone makes no sense to me.

    Well I care for truth. Both on physical world & humanity. That's why I said I find it hard to define myself.

    Impersonal approach to life. Haha. What will you type Einstein? I bet INTP? But he did embrace the world with passion. I don't want to sound hard, but you guys are giving me impression that people are just either T / P. And if you are a T, then you cannot even have emotion. This is absurd. I read Jung's Psychological Types so I think everyone knows it's a spectrum, not categories. So why can't a T have emotion?

    And, well, I have a strong sense on morality, I admit it. But I'm not people-orientated. I was even labelled as rebellious. I'm fine to be INFX, as long as people are giving sensible reasoning of that, but not something like "because I'm an INFP and I also do things that you do so you're an INFP."

    Moreover, how can real INFPs cannot suit the profile? If a theory is describing the truth, then it should make good prediction and it should be coherent with our observations right? Then why should there be rooms for a description that fails to well describe a type? If this is the case, then 1. someone mistyped the so-call INFPs 2. the profile of INFP is inaccurate 3. the whole MBTI is just bullshit. I myself after reading some books, have ruled out the third already. I hope at least someone can tell me what's wrong with the profile or my type. And I know an INFP who suits the profile perfectly, while I have a lot which is totally different with her. That's why I come to seek the answer - I want to know who I really are (the truth!).

    Or, if I really sound like an INFP after this, then at least tell me the profile of INFP is seriously bad written. Or else please tell me that I'm like middle of T/F it's just I lean to F more.

    I'm not sure on my own judgement, so I need advice and some clarification on certain points.

    I apologize if I sound really hard, but I have to admit that so far I haven't hear anything with good reasons yet.

    Thanks a million again.

  10. #20
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuro View Post
    What does it mean by objective? After learning Psychology it seems to me that there aren't objective reality at all. What we know what we sense what we think / feel are all censored by our brains -
    Yup

    what is objectivity? And for me, being objective is just following most ppl's decision (say, objectivity is the collective subjective view of majority). But for me, the most important thing is to make sense. "Objectivity" alone makes no sense to me.
    adjective
    1. undistorted by emotion or personal bias; based on observable phenomena; "an objective appraisal"; "objective evidence" [ant: subjective]

    Yes, it's impossible to be truly objective, due to things like the "brain a jar argument", but for the most part, those are irrelevant. We can only operate under the observations we have, and we can only see this universe. Unless one offers a way out of the jar, then it is pointless to speculate otherwise.

    Well I care for truth. Both on physical world & humanity. That's why I said I find it hard to define myself.
    Everyone cares for truth, it's what aspects of it and how you go about it that differentiates.

    Impersonal approach to life. Haha. What will you type Einstein? I bet INTP?
    Maybe, but I've actually seen some arguments for him as an ENTP that seem somewhat plausible.

    But he did embrace the world with passion. I don't want to sound hard, but you guys are giving me impression that people are just either T / P. And if you are a T, then you cannot even have emotion. This is absurd. I read Jung's Psychological Types so I think everyone knows it's a spectrum, not categories. So why can't a T have emotion?
    No one in this thread has said anything like this. We all know and acknowledge this, especially the Ts who have responded to you. The only difference between T and F, is how you make your decisions. How much emphasis do you place on your emotions? Clearly we all have them and at some level all our actions are decided by them. But how deep do you have to dig?

    And, well, I have a strong sense on morality, I admit it. But I'm not people-orientated. I was even labelled as rebellious.
    Which sounds very Fi.
    Fi - Internal moral code, recognizing and understanding one's own emotions.
    Key word is internal. It certainly can (and will) be effected by the outside world, but its still a largely personal process. It judges things based on how it fits with its moral code, and if that moral code happens to contradict those of others in the world, then it takes a higher priority (unless one of the morals is to not judge other people or something).

    (Also, Ts will tend to be low in this, and this contributes to the perceived unemotional-ness of them, as they don't recognize their own emotions. (And low Fe will mean they have a hard time expressing them when they do.))

    I'm fine to be INFX, as long as people are giving sensible reasoning of that, but not something like "because I'm an INFP and I also do things that you do so you're an INFP."
    I'll take your word for it. However, you give the appearance that you would rather be typed as a T...

    Moreover, how can real INFPs cannot suit the profile? If a theory is describing the truth, then it should make good prediction and it should be coherent with our observations right? Then why should there be rooms for a description that fails to well describe a type? If this is the case, then 1. someone mistyped the so-call INFPs 2. the profile of INFP is inaccurate 3. the whole MBTI is just bullshit. I myself after reading some books, have ruled out the third already. I hope at least someone can tell me what's wrong with the profile or my type. And I know an INFP who suits the profile perfectly, while I have a lot which is totally different with her. That's why I come to seek the answer - I want to know who I really are (the truth!).
    It's 2.5: The profile of INFP can be inaccurate. (BTW, which profile are you referring to?) The biggest thing is as I outlined above, with Fi. Each INFP could have a radically different moral code. The descriptions of INFPs (and NFs in general) tend to paint a rosy picture of someone who loves everything and is eternally optimistic and unicorns and fairies and all that. But if a large part of the world contradicts the INFPs morals, then it could be the exact opposite.

    Or, if I really sound like an INFP after this, then at least tell me the profile of INFP is seriously bad written. Or else please tell me that I'm like middle of T/F it's just I lean to F more.
    You sound more INFP, for reasons I outlined above, but you also seem to have a fairly well developed T.

    I'm not sure on my own judgement, so I need advice and some clarification on certain points.

    I apologize if I sound really hard, but I have to admit that so far I haven't hear anything with good reasons yet.

    Thanks a million again.
    I'm not really sure what kind of responses you were hoping to get, but these are the kind you will get. We're offering our opinions as to what type we think you are, based on our experiences with the various types and the research we have done. But of course, most of us are amateurs here, plus, its especially hard to type someone online. If you don't like our responses, then you are free to disregard them.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
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