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  1. #21
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    On this question of the shadow functions... couple a things:

    we're talking functions that exist in you in the same order as normal, but with the normal focus reversed. I can sort of see it being true. If you normally rely on say dominant Ni and auxiliary Te, and some kind of substantially stressful situation is upon you, a situation where your normal function is incapable of producing a result, but you have to produce a result, then the normal functions hunt around for another way--they reverse, perhaps. Why wouldn't they? They're already there, they function and produce a functional result, why wouldn't they under extreme stress (1) try to be themselves, but (2) look for a different expression, a different result, a different focus... if they really had to.

    Like if you know how to use X to solve X types problems, but you get a Y type problem and you really have to solve it, you still use X but with a different application.

    But they don't reverse to produce normal, healthy functioning. They can't, because, being rarely that way focused, they're so low powered. So, if they reverse, they do it relying on past achievements of the normal functions functioning normally.

    So, if I go ENTP, it's with an Ne and Ti that already has a clear map of the world from normal Ni/Te functioning. I wouldn't go ENTP to be ENTP but to support the ailing INTJ I really am. See what I mean? Mostly the shadow would be defensive and aggressive.

    The times I believe I have put on an ENTP face:

    1. To teach class (because the classes I teach are not straight lectures--I am, of all things, an EFL instructor.)
    2. To deal with Fe users that have me intimately cornered
    3. any public meeting, maybe.

    What happens? Well...

    In intimately benign but nonetheless stressful situations, like class, I pose and strut to get laughs and get students on my side, because they have to be happy and jolly or they won't join in the activities I have to make them do. I use non sequitur humour, and poke fun at feelings. I say random things. I discover random connections or surprising developments of ideas. (And then I bear down with hardcore INTJ "Do X now" style instructions.)

    In intimately stressful situations, I tear up the place with really aggressive proofs of how and why other people have transgressed. I focus outward to bluntly coerce. And I chop and change too. I can't sustain that digging away at other people for long, so after a burst of logic display, I drop back into low voiced observations, without humour, in fact often deeply grim, in fact.

    In public, anytime, if I'm confident of being at least a little bit dominant, I'll almost always have a burst of energy at the beginning of interactions with others. It'll include T-type boisterous joking around, usually observational, focusing on absurdities. It gets worn out pretty fast.

    Yeah, it all sounds like being a prick, but, hey--it's ENTP.


    Alarming conclusions: so... those strange non-duality relationships you hear so much about... INTJs with INFJs or INTPs, or INTJs with ENXJs... and so on... they love you best when you're stressed, because when you're stressed you look much more like their dual.:horor:

    INTJs and INFJ particularly. Stressed INTJ is a perverted ENTP, and stressed INFJ is--oh, my god--a whacked out ENFP.

    Ain't love grand.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    On this question of the shadow functions... couple a things:

    we're talking functions that exist in you in the same order as normal, but with the normal focus reversed. I can sort of see it being true. If you normally rely on say dominant Ni and auxiliary Te, and some kind of substantially stressful situation is upon you, a situation where your normal function is incapable of producing a result, but you have to produce a result, then the normal functions hunt around for another way--they reverse, perhaps. Why wouldn't they? They're already there, they function and produce a functional result, why wouldn't they under extreme stress (1) try to be themselves, but (2) look for a different expression, a different result, a different focus... if they really had to.

    Like if you know how to use X to solve X types problems, but you get a Y type problem and you really have to solve it, you still use X but with a different application.

    But they don't reverse to produce normal, healthy functioning. They can't, because, being rarely that way focused, they're so low powered. So, if they reverse, they do it relying on past achievements of the normal functions functioning normally.

    So, if I go ENTP, it's with an Ne and Ti that already has a clear map of the world from normal Ni/Te functioning. I wouldn't go ENTP to be ENTP but to support the ailing INTJ I really am. See what I mean? Mostly the shadow would be defensive and aggressive.

    The times I believe I have put on an ENTP face:

    1. To teach class (because the classes I teach are not straight lectures--I am, of all things, an EFL instructor.)
    2. To deal with Fe users that have me intimately cornered
    3. any public meeting, maybe.

    What happens? Well...

    In intimately benign but nonetheless stressful situations, like class, I pose and strut to get laughs and get students on my side, because they have to be happy and jolly or they won't join in the activities I have to make them do. I use non sequitur humour, and poke fun at feelings. I say random things. I discover random connections or surprising developments of ideas. (And then I bear down with hardcore INTJ "Do X now" style instructions.)

    In intimately stressful situations, I tear up the place with really aggressive proofs of how and why other people have transgressed. I focus outward to bluntly coerce. And I chop and change too. I can't sustain that digging away at other people for long, so after a burst of logic display, I drop back into low voiced observations, without humour, in fact often deeply grim, in fact.

    In public, anytime, if I'm confident of being at least a little bit dominant, I'll almost always have a burst of energy at the beginning of interactions with others. It'll include T-type boisterous joking around, usually observational, focusing on absurdities. It gets worn out pretty fast.

    Yeah, it all sounds like being a prick, but, hey--it's ENTP.


    Alarming conclusions: so... those strange non-duality relationships you hear so much about... INTJs with INFJs or INTPs, or INTJs with ENXJs... and so on... they love you best when you're stressed, because when you're stressed you look much more like their dual.:horor:

    INTJs and INFJ particularly. Stressed INTJ is a perverted ENTP, and stressed INFJ is--oh, my god--a whacked out ENFP.

    Ain't love grand.
    Interesting thoughts. So at times you resort to ENTP as an "auxiliary type."

  3. #23
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WithoutaFace View Post
    Interesting thoughts. So at times you resort to ENTP as an "auxiliary type."
    I honestly don't know. I do know that one or two students have commented that there are two different people: me in class and me away from class. And I actually have off my own bat sometimes said to people, "You know, in class, that's not really the real me."

    It's a little embarrassing, in fact.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Willfrey's Avatar
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    On some tests I'd hit as ISTP or INTJ, but for the most part I tested as INTP dominantly. Though really what it came down to was not so much the result of the test, but how INTP's are described in general that best suited me. The profiles of INTJs and ISTPs would fit as well, but the never hit the mark quite as well as INTP.

    Perhaps instead of over thinking it just read the proflies and get a good 'feeling' instead.
    ...Then I ducked my head and the lights went out, and two guns blazed in the dark;
    And a woman screamed, and the lights went up, and two men lay stiff and stark...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by WithoutaFace View Post
    So, I don't really know my type. Being a member of this forum, I would think that it would be a handy thing to know in order to engage in discussions. I mean everything does tend to revolve around MBTI here.

    I tried this HumanMetrics - online relationships, personality and entrepreneur tests, personal solution center thing: INTJ
    Then I tried this other link recently proposed on another thread http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/as...elop_old.html:
    ENTP

    So what in the hell is my profile? I know it's not static, I'm just a little vexed over this issue. Do these sites suck in your opinion? Do you have better sites? If I am truly interested, should I get professionally typed? Do you have any recommendations for this option?
    All ideas and input are welcome. Thanks in advance.
    You took a test on human metrics? That means you answered questions about I/E N/S etc... It's more accurate than a functions test.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    You took a test on human metrics? That means you answered questions about I/E N/S etc... It's more accurate than a functions test.
    The other test asks questions about N/S T/F, doesn't it?

  7. #27
    Member D'Artagnan's Avatar
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    I would definetly go with INTj, just from the general vibe of your posts. If forced to give a reason I would say ENTps generally make alot more jokes and create parallel topics (other types would say we screw around alot )

    For function analysis, I really like and recommend socionics - I think it has a much better breakdown of the Information Elements. It also shows how ENTps and INTjs are very similar.

    ENTp or ILE - Ne, Ti, Fe, Si

    INTj or LII - Ti, Ne, Si, Fe

    The first two functions make up your Ego, your conscious mind that is the strongest part of your personality. Your Base (1st) function is the easiest to use and is generally always active. The Creative (2nd) function is used selectively but is just as strong as your Base. Your Base function determines how you perceive the world while your Creative function is your main form of expression. Thus INTjs create a formal logic of analysis and classification (Ti) in their heads and express it with unusual observations of existing systems (Ne). ENTps see potential and unique possibilites (Ne) in their heads and express logic usually in the form of arguement or reaching a greater understanding (Ti)

    INTj = Inside-out ENTp (or vice-versa)
    Chivalry is only a name for that general spirit or state of mind which disposes men to heroic actions, and keeps them conversant with all that is beautiful and sublime in the intellectual and moral world
    - Kenelm Henry Digby

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