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  1. #1
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Default Interesting Case

    I found this on some enneagram list on the internet, but I thought it was interesting. It was posted as coming from a hypothetical subject X, and the purpose was to assign them an MBTI and enneagram code. I thought I'd post it here to see what some of your conjectures were...

    It's long so I will post it in a few parts;
    Good ol' Subject X writes...

    : If there is one word I could use to describe myself it would be COMPLEX. There are so many inconsistencies, paradoxes, dualities, and ambiguities inside of me that it's difficult to understand who I really am and what I want. As you can see, I have resorted to writing a mini-biography, mostly on my personality, but also using some life events and how they affected me.

    SELF-IMAGE
    : My self-image varies. Sometimes I have a lot of self-confidence and am excited about my future. Other times, maybe most of the time, I have a poor, modest self-image who sees me as talentless and unlikeable. Much of my self-image is dependent on something physical: what others say, what I produce; my self-esteem comes from the outside world. This makes me highly sensitive to external influences. If for example, I produce a work of art or do a good job at work, it makes me feel better about myself. If someone comments to how intelligent or interesting I am, I feel better about myself. However I'm also sensitive to the opposite -- failure in the real world leads me into a maelstrom of self-doubt, self-hatred, depression, and nihilism. If, for example, I had a mediocre score on an IQ test, I may obsess over how stupid I am. However, since my self-image is varied and sensitive, it would take some positive reinforcement from the outside world to bring me back up.

    : I don't trust the world much, but the person I trust least is myself. This also makes me very influential from the outside environment. I seek other's advice and opinions when making decisions, simply because I don't trust my own judgement. Sometimes I even adopt their position as my own. The advantages of this is that I am very flexible, open-minded, and can see all sides of an issue. Typically I downplay my own decisions and judgements. As introverted and walled off from the world as I am, a strong part of me is still dependent/connected with the outside world.

    : Again, I must repeat this as it is a core trait of my personality: My self-image is dependent on the external world. I feel this is important since I think mine is more in the extreme, compared to the norm. Since I have had no success at all in romantic relations, I see myself as ugly, undesireable, and inferior. This also clouds my perception of the future -- I feel that I will have no success at all in the future because of the past. At times I may look at myself in the mirror and think how attractive I am, but I don't know if that is genuine or simply a compensation for my underlying feelings of inferiority.

    : Sometimes I will "change" my self-perception to set myself differently from others. Suppose I read somewhere about someone who was envious of others and he withdrew out of shame and self-hatred (which would describe me), I would see myself as NOT withdrawing but instead as someone who is competitive and tried to best others at their own game. I guess on a simpler level, if someone writes that they are so depressed, I see myself as more happy and sanguine. Or if they write about how happy and optimistic they are, I see myself as more depressed and negative.

    : The reason I am obsessed with self-analysis and understanding myself is that I feel it will empower me to achieve my goals, dreams, and desires. I want to know who I am so much. I want to know what my problems are and how I can eliminate them. I feel that my problems will be solved once I identify them and "know my true self". Of course, being only twenty, my identity hasn't completely formed so this is pretty much an irresolvable issue.

    : There is something wrong with me. The curious mystery is this: I have no idea what it is. I call it "Factor X". Basically this Factor X is what is responsible for others avoiding me socially and sexually. It's the reason I cannot become intimate with anyone. I am without a doubt the most sexually inexperienced person I know. I have asked others directly, "What is wrong with me?" but they all deny there is something wrong with me. All I know is that a significant amount of me is flawed in some way. What it is, I don't know. I mean, I must be flawed otherwise reality would be much different! (Again, you can see how my self-image is mostly based on truth, reality, the external world, achievements, what others think, etc.) If I wasn't flawed, it would be logical to assume that I must have had at least One girlfriend! Only a social leper would be in my position.
    I think someone on that list suggested INTJ 3w4, but I'm not sure about that. I like this example, though, because the person presents more of a realistic emotional picture. They don't filter out feelings for risk of being accused of F-ness. Anyway, I hope some folks decide to read it despite its length.
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  2. #2
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Cont...

    MOODS AND EMOTIONS

    : I would say I experience a wide range of moods, although most of them are not expressed. They can range anywhere from a period of a few days to a matter of minutes. I haven't discerned a noticeable cycle, but it does seem like that my manic moods are followed by a low, depressive one.

    : I guess the "home" emotional state is one where I'm reserved, friendly, peaceful, and modest. There's a bit of a withdrawn nature to me though. This is typically how I act with strangers and in public areas. I don't like conflict and seek to minimize it. However, I'm also a bit paranoid and suspicious of others.

    : At times I can be giddy, hyperactive, intellectually quick, whimsical. I take delight in absurdity and childish comedy. If I am with others I tend to be uninhibited and playful, saying whatever is on my mind, not afraid of saying something to the extreme. I can be sexually provocative and flirtatious and attention-craving. My focus is on the environment and enjoying the current mood. I am also much more independent and rebellious and will hold my own when challenged. During these manic moods, ideas come to my mind very quickly. Most of them are whimsical, but many have real value. I have been described as very funny in this state.

    : I am also attracted to nihilistic pessimism and despair. It feels like I have nothing to live for and nothing to try for. I feel extremely lonely and lost, unguided, like a blind person trying to find their way out of the dark. I feel hopeless and pessimistic towards my future, rejecting anything good or positive to come out of it.

    : I can also get very self-absorbed and whiny, forcing friends to act as therapists. In online conversation (I don't have too much real world experience) it is usually me who dominates the conversation where I talk about myself and my problems, while the friend does their best to help me and keep their own sanity together while I annoy them to death. It's extremely difficult to deal with problems on my own...I need to vent my frusteration and seek advice. In situations in real life, I usually deal with my own problems but if I can turn to the internet, I find advice and help there.

    : I can get very narcissistic and self-centered. I become highly elitist and over-confident. Delusions of grandeur and fantasy dominate my thinking. I love entertaining notions that I will become a world-renown playwright, comedian, or artist. At this time, attention-seeking is very high. I want others to admire me, but if they don't just their attention is fine. Comparisons are made with others "I'm funnier than you; You are not as charming as me.". Yet, ironically, there is also a strong desire for others to pity me. I WANT them to see I am narcissistic and not really confident. I don't want them to take my narcissism at face value; I want them to see through it and realize underneath I am not all together, and feel worthless and miserable. I want them to realize I have a "disease" and need to be pitied and protected. I also want them to think I am special.

    : One of my darker, if not darkest moods can grow out of what appears to be envy. Usually, my envy manifests as anger towards someone or people in general. If I am "in love" with a woman, which usually isn't much since I fall in and out of love very easily, but if I am in love with her and she has a boyfriend, I can be consumed with so much envy that I have a strong desire to not only wreck their relationships - but others as well. I believe my strong misogyny is the result of envy, and unfulfilled needs. If I can't have a woman I will then hate and hurt them.

    : Sometimes I can feel "dead" on the inside. Apathetic, unmotivated, lost, confused....simplified. I don't have too much ambition, nor do I really care about anything. It's like I attached myself to the present moment and just hung on to it. I can go on the internet for several hours at a time, play video games for hours, just numb and tune out the world with mindless solitary entertainment. Sometimes I will keep doing an activity even if it is boring. I will just "hang out" at the message board page even if no one is posting, Hoping someone would post, but knowing there won't be and just sitting there, waiting, wasting my life.

    : I keep my anger on the inside usually. In a few cases though, I've felt an Explosion inside of me. It is a very powerful, almost primal anger that erupts when triggered in the right way. One example was when I was working, and I thought this co-worker was directing me too much and she told me to put some towels over at a certain spot and I retorted with "Very well, Your Majesty". When I said those words though, I felt this huge surge of emotion just burst out...well it wasn't loud, I managed to suppress it somewhat, but there was a distinct physiological feeling to it. I could feel this anger in my whole body. And as soon as it came, it left. After that I was very shocked about what just happened to me. I never felt anger like that before. It wasn't an everyday kind of anger or anything, this completely controlled me. To be honest, it is quite possible that I could kill someone if that anger was slightly stronger and sustained itself longer in duration.

    : As much as I am addicted to self-analysis, I have a bit of a fear of my emotions. I kind of maintain a logical, dispassionate government in my head but the wild emotions keep attacking it. I don't really like admitting that I'm in pain, have problems, etc.

    : I can be very protective, defensive, and reactive at home when I'm in my personal space. I want to be left alone and I show it. I will yell, put up a fight, just do anything to be left alone. I feel that I have fulfilled my obligations to the world and I deserve a little time and space to myself.

    SOCIALIZING

    : It's difficult to explain my reasons why I find it difficult to socialize. Perhaps the best answer would be that I have an Avoidant-type of personality.

    : I am generally an introverted person, but not too much so. I have moderate people skills, although I am very bad at reading between the lines and taking hints from others. They might perceive me as "slow" but when it comes to that, I just focus on what is THERE, not what is implied.

    : I am both shy and uninhibited. Many times I will refrain from asking light personal questions ("What college are you going to? Do you have an e-mail address? What music do you like? etc"), yet I can say outrageous comments, usually sexual and X-rated in nature. I don't make those comments if I know the person will hate me for it, but I do like knowing I shock them and might stand out in their mind as someone who is different.

    : I am very cautious of any new experiences. If someone invites me to a party (or a girl asks me out on a date), I immediately get very nervous and try to avoid it if possible, especially if the people aren't "my type". Like if some guys ask if I want to go out drinking with them, I would definitely decline. Even though I haven't ever been out drinking before, and don't know what it's like, and see nothing wrong in drinking itself (I have no ethical qualms about it), I would still decline because I am nervous of what could happen there. I doubt I could fit in, and I would probably end up making a fool of myself. Besides, I don't have any strong compulsion to go out and drink so what would I be missing?

    : *Update from above: Now that I tried drinking, I love it! It really turns my personality into different caricatures. I guess now if someone offered to go drinking with me, I would accept. This shows how my perception can easily change based on experience. However, I still don't like meeting new people generally. Right now, I go drinking at a band practice. When I'm drunk I can reveal my insecurities and fears. I've asked some of the band members if they liked me or not. They said they do, but for some reason I can't totally trust them. They have never revealed negative feelings towards me, but I have a feeling that I'm annoying and a leech who only goes there for beer. Something's wrong with me, why can't they see it?

    : Sometimes I say odd things or make weird jokes. I feel really stupid talking "normal" and engaging in small talk. It feels so fake and lifeless to me. I want people to know there is an INDIVIDUAL they are talking to. For example today I ran into a girl I knew in high school. Actually, she was an unrequited crush. She sees me and comes over to me and gives me a hug - while I am completely unresponsive. I didn't hug her back, I should've, but I froze. I said "Don't hug me, I got a disease.", "What disease?", "AIDS." I was very nervous and trying to think of something to say and that's what was said. Actually, the nature of the weird comments depends on my mood. If I am manic, my comments are original and idiosyncratic and in top form. However if I am nervous with others socializing, they tend to be more "pathetic jokes" and aren't that funny.

    : One thing I have noticed is that the more I "rehearse" what I am about to say in my mind, the worse it comes out. I socialize best when I am completely spontaneous - but to be completely spontaneous, I must first be comfortable with the other person which is difficult. For example, if I want to walk up to someone and say something to them, I don't just go up there and say it. Instead I rehearse it over and over in my mind and when I do get there, it doesn't come out how I planned usually.

    : For the most part, I have a difficulty socializing. I am very nervous sometimes and it's probably evident in my speech. My diction slurs and I have to start over and repeat what I meant to say. I'm sure others know that I'm not a born conversator, and that I'm doing my best to keep myself together.

    : Sometimes I play it "quiet and mysterious", but I have never had anyone approach me out of curiousity or compliment me on my "enigmatic nature" or anything like that. All positive comments about me tend to be that I'm either "nice" or "funny."

    : My definition of a friend is someone I know for a while and are very friendly and playful with each other. I don't have any friends that I get together with outside the workplace, so there is absolutely no after-hours socializing with me and there hasn't been for nearly two years now. I do tend to idealize the other and probably attribute more to the relationship than there already is, especially when it comes to a romantic interest. A girl can simply smile and wink at me and I interpret that as love at first sight towards me. But, as it has turned out in all cases, the girls I thought were interested in me weren't and I read them wrongly. I would imagine in most friendships and such, I like the person more than they like me.

    : A friend of mine at work once said I was "shy and weird." Today, I asked her if I had a lack of social skills and she said no. I asked her if I was weird and she said that I was only pretending to be weird (ha!). I did manage to hear her say that I was "suspicious", but I have never noticed myself being suspicious before. Well, in one case, some other co-workers who I am on a friendly basis with, decided to get me some brownies for Christmas. One of them said she had a surprise for me, and I was immediately vigilant of the situation. I thought it was a prank and I was suspicious of their motives. Only when I got the brownies and tasted them then I realized I over-reacted in that case.

    : I tend to shy away from fights, especially physical. If someone pushes me around, I usually try to avoid or ignore them. Sometimes I will use self-deprecating humor to get myself out of the situation: "Why would I fight you? You're eight feet tall! You would crush me." If someone looks me in the eyes, I can't look back. I am easily intimidated. However if I am made a fool of myself, especially in public, I tend to scheme against them in lone secrecy, finding out a way for revenge. Once at school a guy pushed me down, I forget why, but he had a problem with me and I didn't do anything about it. I just refused to fight him. That night I came up with a plan and the next day I brought a kitchen knife to school. My plan was to go up to him at lunch and see if we could work things out, and if he declined and wanted to fight me, I would stab him in the stomach. I believe if I was pushed to that point, I would do it. I have to be careful not to act on my plans or my emotions towards people, because sometimes they are downright malicious and lethal.

    : In spite of all of this, I do like to be admired and seen as daring by others. On a related issue, I also love to be perceived as a very kinky, even perverted individual. I particularily like it when I mention stuff I would do and the other person looks at me as if I was crazy. And if a person is not offended, startled, or apprehended by my "extreme sexuality", I feel like I don't have any power. There is something of a feeling of power knowing I would do things that other people wouldn't. If they match me in extreme sexuality, I feel threatened by them, as if they are a rival.

    : I am going to bring in a tape full of porn music to be played over the PA system at my store next week. In the morning, before the store is open, we are allowed to bring in cassette tapes and play the music while we work and get prepared for the day. Usually it's rock music or dance, but I'm bringing in porn. At first I thought it was going to be an anonymous prank, but I have the urge to brag about it. I already mentioned what I am going to do to several people. I want them to admire me and respect me and see that I am daring and strong. I want them to realize I am powerful and won't let anything stop me from having fun.

    : Sometimes I can be quite unresponsive, although this may have something to do with my moods as well. People will talk to me and I somehow just cannot connect with the outside world and React. It's as if I am completely divorced from reality and feeling what they feel and any reaction from me is artificial and produced. They may say things and I won't even acknowledge them. If I am supposed to laugh or show empathy, it's usually very dulled and brief. (See Moods and Emotions)

    : Often I can become outgoing and extraverted when I have to play a "host" role. When I went to band practice alone, I was rather quiet and observant. When I brought people from work and introduced them, I was more into mingling and talking. Speaking of roles, I absolutely require roles if I am to feel comfortable. If I know what is expected of me, I can fulfill that role easily. I am like an actor who can speak lines perfectly but if forced into an improv situation, panicks.

    : I am a lousy therapist. In situations where friends have come to me to talk about their problems, I can't think of anything to say since relating to others and reassuring them are not my strong points. Once a girl told me that every guy she's been with has used her...I couldn't think of anything to say so I just sat in dumb silence. Another time a friend was drunk and he was telling me how scared he was of his future and his inability to cope with it. I just couldn't reassure him. It felt very awkward expressing any emotion or concern -- I didn't want to seem sentimental or emotional. I thought I would overdo it if I expressed anything so I didn't express anything at all. I more so help others with my logic and rational thinking. I can provide advice and such...but not nurturance and support. That's just so difficult for me.

    : If I feel comfortable with someone, I like teasing them, although many interpret this as me being a jerk. I'm not sure why I do that. I definitely mean nothing harmful behind my statements. I guess it's a way of alleviating some built-up anger in me and also a way of testing others to see how they react. If they react negatively and take offense, I lose some of my trust in them and realize that we are not too compatible.
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  3. #3
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    LEADING

    : I don't really like to be a leader. I would rather be a follower or on my own. I would hate to have the responsibility of a leader and have everything accountable to me. It's much easier if someone else messes up, then I can not feel guilty or responsible for it. Even in everyday affairs, I follow others "Wherever you want to go is fine with me." If I had friends, and we went out, I would prefer to have them decide where to go and what to do than myself. Besides, I have no confidence in my own decisions which makes for bad leadership.

    WORKING
    : I have never been a responsible person. I forget things, lose things, disregard things. In school I would forget if I had homework and learn next day that I did. If I have a physical object, I lose it easily. If I have bills to be paid, I put them off until I'm in "the mood" for them. I just handle everything very casually.

    : In school I hardly ever followed directions or listened to the teacher. Even to this day I have great difficulty hearing details. If someone gives me directions to do something in a certain order, I often forget it by the time I get to the task. Sometimes I'll say "Ok" and walk away to do the task - without remembering anything the person said!

    : If I am doing something at work which is routine, I slow down a bit and "tune out" reality and visit the inner mindscape in my head. Sometimes its an inner monologue...other times I make up stories or entertain ideas for stories...but much of it is what I want to do later on. It seems like most stuff that goes on in my head is about things I plan to do later, but often don't get around to. I'll think up ideas for a web site and what I can put on it, and then when I get home I just don't feel like doing it usually.

    : For the most part I am rather serious about work. If others are goofy off, I conscientiously continue working. However, if the right opportunity comes, I will slack off and play. I don't ever goof off for the sake of goofing off, I do so when the moment for it comes. If there's a pretty girl I like, I would maybe stop working and joke around with her. Or I tend to stretch my breaks. We are allowed 20 minutes but I usually take 30 minute ones.

    : I don't like to work what is beyond my schedule. If I am scheduled to three, I will stay to three, no later. Well, I Will stay (sometimes I try and get out of it) but I will be rather pissed off about it.

    : It's very important for me to be well-liked and supported in my work atmosphere. If I sense any hostility or roughness towards me, I get very uncomfortable. I usually become introverted, poker-faced, suspicious, evasive, and fearful. When I'm with people who do more than tolerate me, but enjoy me I can be extraverted, funny, friendly, reassuring, and nice.

    : Most people would describe me as a hard worker. This is because I have a desire to please and a desire to maintain my security. I don't want my bosses on my back, bothering me and such. I'm typically not passive-aggressive.
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  4. #4
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    I would say likely INTP. Not a common variety though, one whose depression has kept him analyzing everything which doesn't need analysis, and from analyzing things which do.

    While the type is probably related to the dysfunction, the dysfunction is now what's dominating the psyche. It could be the result of the environment causing some extended mentally painful period in life.

    Add: The prescription, of course, is one year hard labor.

  5. #5
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Add: The prescription, of course, is one year hard labor.
    You think he's spoiled and that's the cause of his apparent angst?
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    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Either ISFP or INFP. The person is definitely Fi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    Either ISFP or INFP. The person is definitely Fi.
    Not to patronize you, but are you sure you didn't come to this conclusion based on the fact that emotion was described at all? I ask because this person seems fairly T-ish, and the only thing I can think of that would indicate F is the description of emotions. But everyone has emotions, and if you're going to talk specifically about them, it's going to sound emotional, or F-ish, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    You think he's spoiled and that's the cause of his apparent angst?
    No, he's obsessing on that which will do him no good, and all that comes with real effort can dissuade said obsessions.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    No, he's obsessing on that which will do him no good, and all that comes with real effort can dissuade said obsessions.
    Ah. Gotcha.
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    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Not to patronize you, but are you sure you didn't come to this conclusion based on the fact that emotion was described at all? I ask because this person seems fairly T-ish, and the only thing I can think of that would indicate F is the description of emotions. But everyone has emotions, and if you're going to talk specifically about them, it's going to sound emotional, or F-ish, right?
    I see what you're saying, but since the person is talking about a wide variety of feelings he's experiencing, I think he's F. Introverted F.

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