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Type confusion

nightning

ish red no longer *sad*
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,741
MBTI Type
INfj
Ok. That's crazy! I just took it and got these results:

Extraverted Sensing = 27
Introverted Sensing = 20
Extraverted Intuiting = 37
Introverted Intuiting = 22
Extraverted Thinking = 40.4
Introverted Thinking = 43.2
Extraverted Feeling = 18.6
Introverted Feeling = 31.8

Suggested type: ENTP


I can see the SE > SI and FI > FE, but I really don't understand the NE > NI and TI > TE.

Thanks for taking the test. I know there's quite a few questions. Also your results aren't as crazy as you think. It usually type me as ENTP as well even though I'm definitely not one. :alttongue: The function perference order is more useful.

Also a difference of a few points isn't significant. So I'll place your function use order as the following:
Te = Ti = Ne > Fi = Se > Ni = Si = Fe

So based on the results, it looks like either an INTX with strong Ne and Fi or a INFP with strong Te + Ti.

Judging from how you say you like order and precision. It does point towards J... plus INXJs are about the least "rigid" of all the Js. And Fi is the tertiary function for INTJs so that is a possibility... The higher Ne and Se remains puzzling... You could also be INXP.
 

falling2fast

New member
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
33
MBTI Type
INXJ
Jennifer said:
I guess at this point different views of type come into play: I tend to see type as more inherent, and thus behaviors running counter to type for survival purposes aren't necessary comfortable if they conflict with the underlying type.

if you are a behavioralist and think type is merely a collection of behaviors people use as tools to achieve their ends (or some variation on that), then you can talk about "becoming a particular type."

When I see someone with inconsistent type traits, i tend to see the former as more likely -- that you have some innate sense of self and preferences but over the years you learned to mimic other types that would enable you to survive. So I wouldn't say you're a Two, I'd say you learned how to emulate Two behaviors in order to thrive in life. And the discrepancy here is between your Two behaviors and your underlying preferences -- which might not be as obvious now since you couldn't really pursue them openly due to your situation...

I agree with you. I merely used type because I do not know how else to describe the extent to which I have used the type 2 persona.


Jennifer said:
I suspect that you have another type under the surface but you've been forced to assume more of a caretaker stance in order to ensure that you got the cooperation you needed.

In Enneagram thought as well, there's use of Horney's three ways of dealing with people in response to internalized anxiety: Moving towards (such as what you do), Moving Against, and Moving Away. Put another way, at core, when it comes to potential conflict or personal needs, some of us try to dominate the people we see as threats or who might not give us what we need, some of us will cater to those people (to win them over), and some of us will pull away from the threat.

You couldn't really afford to dominate or move away, because you needed other people's help and well-wishes in your situation.

I'd focus on what other things seem to be part of your natural inclinations. What you like to do. What you would do instinctively if you didn't have to depend on anyone. What internal reactions you have to people's interactions with you.

I have thought about that. The difficulty comes when I try to determine which is a conditioned trait and which is an inherent trait. For example, I consider other peoples' feelings. I do not value my own feelings much, and I wouldn't value others' either except that I want caring in return. I am aware that this is a strategy, but I do truly care as well. It's a dual purposed action.


Jennifer said:
When those types/functions come out, they're usually very obvious and very explosive. It's like a personal meltdown. The old ways no longer allow us to cope, so we lurch frantically into pathways we've been afraid of and which we have no real idea how to use... and because we're so stressed, we tend to wield them frantically.

Ok. I get that now.


Jennifer said:
That's more of a "P" aspect, where you flex to the situation. Everyone has different facets of their personalities, though, so that part isn't really an issue. We tend to show the appropriate face in each situation.

I see that. If I use P traits to cope so easily, why do P traits bother me in other people so much? I don't mean adaptability and go-with-the-flow attitudes; it's more the leave your options open, noncomittal attitudes that get to me.


Jennifer said:
I have no idea. Types obviously have some consistencies or we could never really categorize people into those types in the first place. I think within each category there are various typical "characters" that show up. I'm more acquainted with INTPs, ISFJs, and INFJs in terms of recognizing various "flavors" of the type9s); I honestly don't know INTJs well enough to have noticed various subtypes of them.

I think the Ni function could take INTJs in many different directions, both ethereal OR more concrete. INTJs have very strong wills; I've seen ones with very quiet confidence ("I am perceiving the truth and have no need to fight you") vs stubborn confidence ("No one's going to control or dominate me"), but self-doubt at least on the surface doesn't seem to be part of their makeup.



I have always been very strong willed. In fact, many people tell me that I am more strong willed than most other people they know. I guess eight years of marriage to a stronger will has softened me somewhat.

I have only recently questioned my identity; I have been quite comfortable knowing that I am one way at the core and another to deal with life. My wife's intensity in not believing that I am an INTJ in practice has made me want to reexamine my self-assessment. I realize that MBTI is only a tool, but I do think that it has such a huge potential to help us understand how and why we interact as we do.

I do trust descriptions more than test results because answers to tests can be clouded by perception. I identify very well with the description of the INTJ; however, as you can see, I exhibit characteristics contradictary to the INTJ norm.
 

falling2fast

New member
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
33
MBTI Type
INXJ
INTJMom said:
Jennifer, awesome as always.

falling2fast - totally off topic question - are you using Jaws as your screen reader?
And, if you don't mind me asking, how old were you when you lost your sight?


Yes, I do Use JAWS. It is an awesome application. I was 13 when I lost all of my sight.


INTJMom said:
Whenever I am interviewing a friend or relative in order to help them decide what their type is,
I always make sure I clarify an important foundational principle of MB type theory and that is this:
Our basic type gets developed and established when we are young.
In general, we develop our dominant function between the ages of 6 and 12,
and our Auxiliary - or second function - between the ages of 12 and 25.

If the person is older than 25, I keep asking the person to think about how they used to behave when they were school-aged.

Perhaps that would help you, too.

Our basic type does not change, but as we get older, we tend to develop more balance.
We develop our 3rd function between the ages of 25 and 50,
and develop the 4th function after 50.

I did see that information. I find developmental psychology so facinating. I would probably study psychology if I weren't so into engineering and programming.


INTJMom said:
By the way, welcome to the forum.


Thank you very much. I thinkit's an awesome site. I appreciate you all helping me figure this all out.
 

falling2fast

New member
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
33
MBTI Type
INXJ
Thanks for taking the test. I know there's quite a few questions. Also your results aren't as crazy as you think. It usually type me as ENTP as well even though I'm definitely not one. :alttongue: The function perference order is more useful.

Also a difference of a few points isn't significant. So I'll place your function use order as the following:
Te = Ti = Ne > Fi = Se > Ni = Si = Fe

So based on the results, it looks like either an INTX with strong Ne and Fi or a INFP with strong Te + Ti.

Judging from how you say you like order and precision. It does point towards J... plus INXJs are about the least "rigid" of all the Js. And Fi is the tertiary function for INTJs so that is a possibility... The higher Ne and Se remains puzzling... You could also be INXP.



Helpful! it definitely makes sense put that way.

Does the X mean that you are undecided or just that you prefer both functions? Is it like being ambidextrous, or just preferring one hand over the other for specific tasks, ability verses adaptability? I've seen it related to functional maturity. It seems to me that I am fairly able to control the functions according to the need of the situation. I guess I'm trying to figure out if INXJ is really a type or more of a mix of types. If I can be both INTJ and INFJ, could I also lean toward INFP but not INTP? Is it inclusive or exclusive?
 

INTJMom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
5,413
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
...
I do trust descriptions more than test results because answers to tests can be clouded by perception. I identify very well with the description of the INTJ; however, as you can see, I exhibit characteristics contradictory to the INTJ norm.
I also exhibit characteristics that might be considered contradictory to the INTJ norm. I'm an enneagram 4! Figure that out! Ah well. I am almost 50 years of age. Like you, I have found it beneficial to get along with people and not be so prickly all the time. People who know MBTT quite well can sometimes question whether I am INTJ. I always have to think back to the way I was when I was a kid. I am very different now - thank goodness, but the basic skeleton of what comes naturally is still there.

Yes, I do Use JAWS. It is an awesome application. I was 13 when I lost all of my sight.
I have a friend who is my computer guru. He uses JAWS also. Sometimes my friend needs my help when he is doing an install for someone and can't have JAWS read to him.
 

INTJMom

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...
If I use P traits to cope so easily, why do P traits bother me in other people so much? I don't mean adaptability and go-with-the-flow attitudes; it's more the leave your options open, noncomittal attitudes that get to me.
....
I feel the same way about P traits. They can annoy me to bits especially since my husband is ISTP. I want us to make a decision and he wants to cross that bridge when we come to it. Grrr! In my opinion that's a good indicator that I'm not a P! LOL!
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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Apr 19, 2007
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50,192
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BELF
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594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I have thought about that. The difficulty comes when I try to determine which is a conditioned trait and which is an inherent trait. For example, I consider other peoples' feelings. I do not value my own feelings much, and I wouldn't value others' either except that I want caring in return. I am aware that this is a strategy, but I do truly care as well. It's a dual purposed action.

It can be difficult to sort out "inherent" vs. "conditioned," and some of the debates on this site revolve around disagreements in that area when it comes to type reading.

I think it comes down to bottom-line response.

For a personal example: I used to exude a lot of consideration for people's feelings -- so much that I always avoided offending anyone, saying anything that could be misconstrued, I was extremely careful and diplomatic in my approach, I always did the "right thing" and never hurt anyone's feelings.

Most people thought that was wonderful, but inside it was really horrible. I did it partly because I did care about people's feelings and wanted to be kind and fair to them, but partly to avoid being rejected by them -- I needed to control their responses at all costs. So I wouldn't say things even if I felt strongly about it, and then I would feel like my life was a big compromise: I couldn't bring myself to hurt anyone, or to push on anyone, but also felt very dead and smothered.

(I also got a lot of people arguing about my Ti/Fi functions too.)

The "me" that people see now is more the inner me, what I think and feel as I go through life. I'll still try to be diplomatic and kind, but it's less about managing reactions now -- it's not really a preservation strategy anymore. My more "innate" nature is more detached than I had seemed in the past, and much more a mix of sensitive and impersonal. I can't really describe it well, but the more F face was just a face I used to avoid rejection -- despite the fact that I really do care about people, want to see them included and treated fairly, and feel bad and can empathize with them when they hurt.

I see that. If I use P traits to cope so easily, why do P traits bother me in other people so much? I don't mean adaptability and go-with-the-flow attitudes; it's more the leave your options open, noncomittal attitudes that get to me.

I don't know. Everyone's different.

Some people like closure. Some people hate it. (and by that, I mean J's experience anxiety when there is no apparent closure, P's experience anxiety when there is premature closure.)

That tends to be the definition of J/P relations, true.
 

falling2fast

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Apr 12, 2008
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INXJ
INTJMom said:
I feel the same way about P traits. They can annoy me to bits especially since my husband is ISTP. I want us to make a decision and he wants to cross that bridge when we come to it. Grrr! In my opinion that's a good indicator that I'm not a P! LOL!



Yeah, that's my argument.

I'm only 27. I had to take charge in my family early on, so I am more developed than some.

I love computers; they cannot hurt you. I understand them. That's cool that you help your friend during installs. I am for ever reinstalling an OS, so I often need sighted help. I guess that's why I try to be especially nice to some people. Installing windows is not exactly the idea of a pleasant afternoon.
 

falling2fast

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INXJ
Jennifer said:
Some people like closure. Some people hate it. (and by that, I mean J's experience anxiety when there is no apparent closure, P's experience anxiety when there is premature closure.)


I see. It looks as if the suttle differences are going to be the deciding factor here. That seems somewhat ironic to me. I've been trying to solve the problem from an "N" perspective. This stuff really is facinating.
 

INTJMom

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Yeah, that's my argument.

I'm only 27. I had to take charge in my family early on, so I am more developed than some.

I love computers; they cannot hurt you. I understand them. That's cool that you help your friend during installs. I am for ever reinstalling an OS, so I often need sighted help. I guess that's why I try to be especially nice to some people. Installing windows is not exactly the idea of a pleasant afternoon.
My friend is a pretty hard-headed ESTJ! But since I'm a pretty hard-headed INTJ we get along okay. I like not having to walk around on egg shells worrying that I might hurt his feelings. He can be his bold, brusque, highly-opinionated self, and I don't get offended either.

I know how you feel about computers not being able to hurt you.
I feel the same way, too.

What kind of programming do you do?
 

falling2fast

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INTJMom said:
My friend is a pretty hard-headed ESTJ! But since I'm a pretty hard-headed INTJ we get along okay. I like not having to walk around on egg shells worrying that I might hurt his feelings. He can be his bold, brusque, highly-opinionated self, and I don't get offended either.

I am working toward having that type of relationship with my wife. Lol. Personality typing really has helped us understand each other and how to deal with each other.
 

INTJMom

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I am working toward having that type of relationship with my wife. Lol. Personality typing really has helped us understand each other and how to deal with each other.
Yes, well, I'm not married to him! LOL!


Have you seen this enneagram site?
I found it the most comprehensive, and others have said they trust its accuracy.
The Enneagram Type Test
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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MBTI Type
BELF
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sx/sp
It does seem that I am naturally a type 1. That would explain me shifting to the 2 to survive.

Yay!

If I was a J, I'd be, like, "There we go, case closed." (Instead, I'm like, "That's probably it... but we haven't yet beaten all the options to death.")

It sounds like a solid theory, though.
 

falling2fast

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Jack Flak said:
Feeling/Intuition Introvert. INFJ. Certainty 4/5.



Out of curiosity, what makes you say that? My wife and I were going back and forth about T/F. Here are some things I came up with to consider:

  • I have both the NT cold, detached, rationalize everything side and the NF compassionate, understanding, patient side.
  • I mostly think myself through situations, problems, etc. I can also feel myself through situations. I do tend to trust logic over insight; although, I do act on my instinct more than I realize. I tend to not trust myself as much as I should.
  • I am more comfortable in the presence of an NT over that of an NF. I can relate with both but probably not either.
  • The motivation behind an action means more to me than the action itself.
  • I dream about and long for a time when I can feel nothing and be completely autonomous.
 

Jack Flak

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Out of curiosity, what makes you say that? My wife and I were going back and forth about T/F. Here are some things I came up with to consider:

  • I have both the NT cold, detached, rationalize everything side and the NF compassionate, understanding, patient side.
  • I mostly think myself through situations, problems, etc. I can also feel myself through situations. I do tend to trust logic over insight; although, I do act on my instinct more than I realize. I tend to not trust myself as much as I should.
  • I am more comfortable in the presence of an NT over that of an NF. I can relate with both but probably not either.
  • The motivation behind an action means more to me than the action itself.
  • I dream about and long for a time when I can feel nothing and be completely autonomous.
There are many reasons which can't be explained in a few words, but primarily consider that when you are using your logic engine, aka Thinking, emotion isn't necessarily involved. You can't finish a mathematics exam with emotional judgment (Feeling).

What seems to be the case to me is that your typical concerns are emotional, but just like everyone (well almost everyone) you use Thinking when it's the applicable tool.

You not being conscious of the above due to a preference for F would be another reason for my typing you F. (INTJs rarely think they might be INFJ).
 

falling2fast

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Does anyone know about my X questions earlier? Also does anyone know if how you dream is affected by N/S or T/F functions? Are there resources I could trust concerning these topics?
 

Jack Flak

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Does anyone know about my X questions earlier? Also does anyone know if how you dream is affected by N/S or T/F functions? Are there resources I could trust concerning these topics?
Wow, broseph. It's 9/10 now.
 

Tigerlily

unscannable
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Jun 21, 2007
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TIGR
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3w4
Does anyone know about my X questions earlier? Also does anyone know if how you dream is affected by N/S or T/F functions? Are there resources I could trust concerning these topics?
My INTJ husband believes dreams are something to do with blood flow to the brain or something like that. I don't think dreaming has anything to do with what type you are. This information might be useful.
 
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