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Thread: Type confusion

  1. #21
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by falling2fast View Post
    Ok. That's crazy! I just took it and got these results:

    Extraverted Sensing = 27
    Introverted Sensing = 20
    Extraverted Intuiting = 37
    Introverted Intuiting = 22
    Extraverted Thinking = 40.4
    Introverted Thinking = 43.2
    Extraverted Feeling = 18.6
    Introverted Feeling = 31.8

    Suggested type: ENTP


    I can see the SE > SI and FI > FE, but I really don't understand the NE > NI and TI > TE.
    Thanks for taking the test. I know there's quite a few questions. Also your results aren't as crazy as you think. It usually type me as ENTP as well even though I'm definitely not one. The function perference order is more useful.

    Also a difference of a few points isn't significant. So I'll place your function use order as the following:
    Te = Ti = Ne > Fi = Se > Ni = Si = Fe

    So based on the results, it looks like either an INTX with strong Ne and Fi or a INFP with strong Te + Ti.

    Judging from how you say you like order and precision. It does point towards J... plus INXJs are about the least "rigid" of all the Js. And Fi is the tertiary function for INTJs so that is a possibility... The higher Ne and Se remains puzzling... You could also be INXP.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    I guess at this point different views of type come into play: I tend to see type as more inherent, and thus behaviors running counter to type for survival purposes aren't necessary comfortable if they conflict with the underlying type.

    if you are a behavioralist and think type is merely a collection of behaviors people use as tools to achieve their ends (or some variation on that), then you can talk about "becoming a particular type."

    When I see someone with inconsistent type traits, i tend to see the former as more likely -- that you have some innate sense of self and preferences but over the years you learned to mimic other types that would enable you to survive. So I wouldn't say you're a Two, I'd say you learned how to emulate Two behaviors in order to thrive in life. And the discrepancy here is between your Two behaviors and your underlying preferences -- which might not be as obvious now since you couldn't really pursue them openly due to your situation...
    I agree with you. I merely used type because I do not know how else to describe the extent to which I have used the type 2 persona.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    I suspect that you have another type under the surface but you've been forced to assume more of a caretaker stance in order to ensure that you got the cooperation you needed.

    In Enneagram thought as well, there's use of Horney's three ways of dealing with people in response to internalized anxiety: Moving towards (such as what you do), Moving Against, and Moving Away. Put another way, at core, when it comes to potential conflict or personal needs, some of us try to dominate the people we see as threats or who might not give us what we need, some of us will cater to those people (to win them over), and some of us will pull away from the threat.

    You couldn't really afford to dominate or move away, because you needed other people's help and well-wishes in your situation.

    I'd focus on what other things seem to be part of your natural inclinations. What you like to do. What you would do instinctively if you didn't have to depend on anyone. What internal reactions you have to people's interactions with you.
    I have thought about that. The difficulty comes when I try to determine which is a conditioned trait and which is an inherent trait. For example, I consider other peoples' feelings. I do not value my own feelings much, and I wouldn't value others' either except that I want caring in return. I am aware that this is a strategy, but I do truly care as well. It's a dual purposed action.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    When those types/functions come out, they're usually very obvious and very explosive. It's like a personal meltdown. The old ways no longer allow us to cope, so we lurch frantically into pathways we've been afraid of and which we have no real idea how to use... and because we're so stressed, we tend to wield them frantically.
    Ok. I get that now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    That's more of a "P" aspect, where you flex to the situation. Everyone has different facets of their personalities, though, so that part isn't really an issue. We tend to show the appropriate face in each situation.
    I see that. If I use P traits to cope so easily, why do P traits bother me in other people so much? I don't mean adaptability and go-with-the-flow attitudes; it's more the leave your options open, noncomittal attitudes that get to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    I have no idea. Types obviously have some consistencies or we could never really categorize people into those types in the first place. I think within each category there are various typical "characters" that show up. I'm more acquainted with INTPs, ISFJs, and INFJs in terms of recognizing various "flavors" of the type9s); I honestly don't know INTJs well enough to have noticed various subtypes of them.

    I think the Ni function could take INTJs in many different directions, both ethereal OR more concrete. INTJs have very strong wills; I've seen ones with very quiet confidence ("I am perceiving the truth and have no need to fight you") vs stubborn confidence ("No one's going to control or dominate me"), but self-doubt at least on the surface doesn't seem to be part of their makeup.


    I have always been very strong willed. In fact, many people tell me that I am more strong willed than most other people they know. I guess eight years of marriage to a stronger will has softened me somewhat.

    I have only recently questioned my identity; I have been quite comfortable knowing that I am one way at the core and another to deal with life. My wife's intensity in not believing that I am an INTJ in practice has made me want to reexamine my self-assessment. I realize that MBTI is only a tool, but I do think that it has such a huge potential to help us understand how and why we interact as we do.

    I do trust descriptions more than test results because answers to tests can be clouded by perception. I identify very well with the description of the INTJ; however, as you can see, I exhibit characteristics contradictary to the INTJ norm.
    Men's natures are alike, it is their habits that carry them far apart. -- Confucius

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom
    Jennifer, awesome as always.

    falling2fast - totally off topic question - are you using Jaws as your screen reader?
    And, if you don't mind me asking, how old were you when you lost your sight?

    Yes, I do Use JAWS. It is an awesome application. I was 13 when I lost all of my sight.


    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom
    Whenever I am interviewing a friend or relative in order to help them decide what their type is,
    I always make sure I clarify an important foundational principle of MB type theory and that is this:
    Our basic type gets developed and established when we are young.
    In general, we develop our dominant function between the ages of 6 and 12,
    and our Auxiliary - or second function - between the ages of 12 and 25.

    If the person is older than 25, I keep asking the person to think about how they used to behave when they were school-aged.

    Perhaps that would help you, too.

    Our basic type does not change, but as we get older, we tend to develop more balance.
    We develop our 3rd function between the ages of 25 and 50,
    and develop the 4th function after 50.
    I did see that information. I find developmental psychology so facinating. I would probably study psychology if I weren't so into engineering and programming.


    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom
    By the way, welcome to the forum.

    Thank you very much. I thinkit's an awesome site. I appreciate you all helping me figure this all out.
    Men's natures are alike, it is their habits that carry them far apart. -- Confucius

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Thanks for taking the test. I know there's quite a few questions. Also your results aren't as crazy as you think. It usually type me as ENTP as well even though I'm definitely not one. The function perference order is more useful.

    Also a difference of a few points isn't significant. So I'll place your function use order as the following:
    Te = Ti = Ne > Fi = Se > Ni = Si = Fe

    So based on the results, it looks like either an INTX with strong Ne and Fi or a INFP with strong Te + Ti.

    Judging from how you say you like order and precision. It does point towards J... plus INXJs are about the least "rigid" of all the Js. And Fi is the tertiary function for INTJs so that is a possibility... The higher Ne and Se remains puzzling... You could also be INXP.


    Helpful! it definitely makes sense put that way.

    Does the X mean that you are undecided or just that you prefer both functions? Is it like being ambidextrous, or just preferring one hand over the other for specific tasks, ability verses adaptability? I've seen it related to functional maturity. It seems to me that I am fairly able to control the functions according to the need of the situation. I guess I'm trying to figure out if INXJ is really a type or more of a mix of types. If I can be both INTJ and INFJ, could I also lean toward INFP but not INTP? Is it inclusive or exclusive?
    Men's natures are alike, it is their habits that carry them far apart. -- Confucius

  5. #25
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by falling2fast View Post
    ...
    I do trust descriptions more than test results because answers to tests can be clouded by perception. I identify very well with the description of the INTJ; however, as you can see, I exhibit characteristics contradictory to the INTJ norm.
    I also exhibit characteristics that might be considered contradictory to the INTJ norm. I'm an enneagram 4! Figure that out! Ah well. I am almost 50 years of age. Like you, I have found it beneficial to get along with people and not be so prickly all the time. People who know MBTT quite well can sometimes question whether I am INTJ. I always have to think back to the way I was when I was a kid. I am very different now - thank goodness, but the basic skeleton of what comes naturally is still there.

    Quote Originally Posted by falling2fast View Post
    Yes, I do Use JAWS. It is an awesome application. I was 13 when I lost all of my sight.
    I have a friend who is my computer guru. He uses JAWS also. Sometimes my friend needs my help when he is doing an install for someone and can't have JAWS read to him.

  6. #26
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by falling2fast View Post
    ...
    If I use P traits to cope so easily, why do P traits bother me in other people so much? I don't mean adaptability and go-with-the-flow attitudes; it's more the leave your options open, noncomittal attitudes that get to me.
    ....
    I feel the same way about P traits. They can annoy me to bits especially since my husband is ISTP. I want us to make a decision and he wants to cross that bridge when we come to it. Grrr! In my opinion that's a good indicator that I'm not a P! LOL!

  7. #27
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by falling2fast View Post
    I have thought about that. The difficulty comes when I try to determine which is a conditioned trait and which is an inherent trait. For example, I consider other peoples' feelings. I do not value my own feelings much, and I wouldn't value others' either except that I want caring in return. I am aware that this is a strategy, but I do truly care as well. It's a dual purposed action.
    It can be difficult to sort out "inherent" vs. "conditioned," and some of the debates on this site revolve around disagreements in that area when it comes to type reading.

    I think it comes down to bottom-line response.

    For a personal example: I used to exude a lot of consideration for people's feelings -- so much that I always avoided offending anyone, saying anything that could be misconstrued, I was extremely careful and diplomatic in my approach, I always did the "right thing" and never hurt anyone's feelings.

    Most people thought that was wonderful, but inside it was really horrible. I did it partly because I did care about people's feelings and wanted to be kind and fair to them, but partly to avoid being rejected by them -- I needed to control their responses at all costs. So I wouldn't say things even if I felt strongly about it, and then I would feel like my life was a big compromise: I couldn't bring myself to hurt anyone, or to push on anyone, but also felt very dead and smothered.

    (I also got a lot of people arguing about my Ti/Fi functions too.)

    The "me" that people see now is more the inner me, what I think and feel as I go through life. I'll still try to be diplomatic and kind, but it's less about managing reactions now -- it's not really a preservation strategy anymore. My more "innate" nature is more detached than I had seemed in the past, and much more a mix of sensitive and impersonal. I can't really describe it well, but the more F face was just a face I used to avoid rejection -- despite the fact that I really do care about people, want to see them included and treated fairly, and feel bad and can empathize with them when they hurt.

    I see that. If I use P traits to cope so easily, why do P traits bother me in other people so much? I don't mean adaptability and go-with-the-flow attitudes; it's more the leave your options open, noncomittal attitudes that get to me.
    I don't know. Everyone's different.

    Some people like closure. Some people hate it. (and by that, I mean J's experience anxiety when there is no apparent closure, P's experience anxiety when there is premature closure.)

    That tends to be the definition of J/P relations, true.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom
    I feel the same way about P traits. They can annoy me to bits especially since my husband is ISTP. I want us to make a decision and he wants to cross that bridge when we come to it. Grrr! In my opinion that's a good indicator that I'm not a P! LOL!


    Yeah, that's my argument.

    I'm only 27. I had to take charge in my family early on, so I am more developed than some.

    I love computers; they cannot hurt you. I understand them. That's cool that you help your friend during installs. I am for ever reinstalling an OS, so I often need sighted help. I guess that's why I try to be especially nice to some people. Installing windows is not exactly the idea of a pleasant afternoon.
    Men's natures are alike, it is their habits that carry them far apart. -- Confucius

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    Some people like closure. Some people hate it. (and by that, I mean J's experience anxiety when there is no apparent closure, P's experience anxiety when there is premature closure.)

    I see. It looks as if the suttle differences are going to be the deciding factor here. That seems somewhat ironic to me. I've been trying to solve the problem from an "N" perspective. This stuff really is facinating.
    Men's natures are alike, it is their habits that carry them far apart. -- Confucius

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by falling2fast View Post
    Yeah, that's my argument.

    I'm only 27. I had to take charge in my family early on, so I am more developed than some.

    I love computers; they cannot hurt you. I understand them. That's cool that you help your friend during installs. I am for ever reinstalling an OS, so I often need sighted help. I guess that's why I try to be especially nice to some people. Installing windows is not exactly the idea of a pleasant afternoon.
    My friend is a pretty hard-headed ESTJ! But since I'm a pretty hard-headed INTJ we get along okay. I like not having to walk around on egg shells worrying that I might hurt his feelings. He can be his bold, brusque, highly-opinionated self, and I don't get offended either.

    I know how you feel about computers not being able to hurt you.
    I feel the same way, too.

    What kind of programming do you do?

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