ENFP of INFP?

[Savage Idealist]

Lately I've been reconsidering wether or not I'm actually an extravert or not (and no, not based on simplistic stereotypes). For one thing my Fi and Ne are pretty much equal in strength and use as my highest functions; but I think my Ne might be higher which would therefore mean that I'm ENFP. Thing is though I have never associated myself as being an extroverted people oreinted person, so I usually dismiss any though of being an extrovert. But I've been learning through previous discussion on MBTI that extroverts are not always the social butterflies/super energetic people that they're typed to be as introverts are not always the reclusive loner they're typed to be; both types are capable of being very social around others.

Also I have taken into consideration that my appreant introversion may be the result of an extreme shyness. For one, I have Asperger's syndrome, which has limited the overall use of my social skills. It has led to many, many awkward moments in socializing with others at a young age, and has made me very shy (almost socially anxious) around others and reluctant to speak with strangers. But if I'm with someone I know fairly well (or someone I don't know very well) and neither of us are speaking to one another I'll try to initiate some level of conversation, usually in order to get to know them better and break the awkward silence. That's also why I like typologycentral and other internet forums; they give me a chance to communicate with people easier and socialize without the physical limitation of my condition.

I'm also a very idea focused person, I constantly (like all the time) think of various unrelated ideas on different metters in life and how things could always turn out. Most of this goes on within my head but I usually do (try to anyway) share my ideas with other people when I can to see what they might say about it. Does Ne need to be shared out with other people, or can Ne be mostly internal thought on the theoretical application of ideas in the present and future world?

So anyone have any suggestions?

[Such Irony]

Thing is though I have never associated myself as being an extroverted people oreinted person, so I usually dismiss any though of being an extrovert. But I've been learning through previous discussion on MBTI that extroverts are not always the social butterflies/super energetic people that they're typed to be as introverts are not always the reclusive loner they're typed to be; both types are capable of being very social around others.

You are right. The question to ask is what energizes you more: Socialization with others (E) or time alone to recharge (I). Extraverts can also be shy. Introverts are not always shy. It's about your preferred source of energy.

Does Ne need to be shared out with other people, or can Ne be mostly internal thought on the theoretical application of ideas in the present and future world?

So anyone have any suggestions?

I think Ne prefers to get their ideas out to other people but I don't think its a requirement of Ne.
I'll let someone who's more expert in function attitudes explain this better.

[Savage Idealist]

Originally posted by SuchIrony
You are right. The question to ask is what energizes you more: Socialization with others (E) or time alone to recharge (I). Extraverts can also be shy. Introverts are not always shy. It's about your preferred source of energy.

Yeah, but I still can't figure out which energizes me more; I mean typically when I am alone and stuff I feel as though I have no energy at all, or perhaps it's because of some other external factor?

[Savage Idealist]

I have also decided to post some of my most worthy quotes from the mtgs forum, in order to see if any funtions are noticable:

I think that as a society that we are slowly moving towards a more liberal method of thinking, but if we really want to overcome rigid gender identity then we need to enforce more tolerant norms in our society that allow for greater social freedom.

The benefits and disadvantages of DST do appear somewhat equal hmmm... what if we were to get rid of DST for lets say, 5 to 10 years, and after that time see what effects its absence causes. After that time the general public could vote as to whether or not they want DST back or continue to live without it.

Yes, I think that prostitution should be legalized, if two adults want to engage in sexual acts in exchange for money then that's their own business, no one else should have the right to say otherwise; in addition it would get some of it off the streets and into well constructed businesses, businesses with strict rules that would guarantee the safety of prostitute and the customer.

This new law is wrong in every sense of the word; rather than brutaly punish those that immigrate here illegally why not simply make it more reasonable, that is give more incentive for immigrants to come here through the proper legal methods. I propose that immigrants who choose to come to the U.S. should be garunteed 100% that they can become legal citezens with an addtional social benefit. That way those who do wish to immigrate will see that the legal method of doing so is much more reasonable and select that option rather then come here of illegal methods. In addtion rather than punish those who are already here illegally, why not simply construct methods where they could seek to gain legal citizenship; they could be given amnesty and in addition gain legal citizenship.

It is pure absurdity that people can binge themselves to near death intoxication yet will be arrested and/or sent to prison for even possessing marijuana. People should have the freedom to do whatever they want with their own bodies, so much as they don't harm others in the process. In addition marijuana, compared to other drugs and alcohol, is relatively harmless in that it doesn't turn its user into a hazardous threat to other people; people high off of pot will more then likely sit around and do nothing, which is usually a better alternative than a drunk breaking porperty, acting violently, driving, etc.

While I do believe that the possibility of living in a Matrix world is quite apparent I can assert with confidence that the world that I live in now is definite to be the real one. Now I don't completely deny the possibility that the world around me is a computer generated illusion within my brain, that is very possible, thus I could come to the conclusion that I probably am in such a world. But my reason for not coming to this conclusion is that the possibility of living in a Matrix world is only theoretical, the world that I subjectively experience here and now is the only world that I have come to known as true. Everything that I have learned via my senses suggests that this world that I currently experience is the actual world. Since I know as of now that this world is real to me and that any other possible real world is only a hypothetical idea, I can conclude that this world that I experience is indeed real. Now from an objective standpoint I could be wrong, I could be a brain in a vat that is being feed sensory information that has created this fake world, but from my subjective realm I am unaware of this, I can only assume with actual certainty that this world that I experience is the real one.


I suppose an analogy that might describe this better is if I imagine myself in a room with one door, I have always lived in this room and it is the only room that I know of. The door in the room has always been locked and there is no way to open it. Now it is possible that there is another room on the other side of that door. For all I know that other room could be the "real" room, and this one is nothing more than an imitation of it. It could also be possible that there is another room with another door, and another room beyond that etc. It could also be possible that the is nothing behind the door, that it's just part of the wall. But since I can never fully know what is on the other side of the door I can only conclude that the room that I inhabit now is the "real" room, while acknowledging the possibility that there are other rooms beyond this one.

This is an excellent Bill in my opinion, considering that some people who die often possess completely healthy organs that other need in order to live I think Bill is perfectely justified. As far as I'm concerned the corpse of a person doesn't really have any rights after death beacuse, well, they're dead. Why should it matter whether or not they wanted their organs donated or if they wanted to be buried with them? What's best for those that are alive is far more important. Lets not forget either that there are those on organ donate waiting lists who need certain organs to live and these waiting lists can often be scarce in the amount of organs they recieive; there are amny who die and are buried without having their organs donated, so essentially they're wasting comletely good organs that others need. But this Bill can help safe lives, and to all those who disagree on the notion that people have right to choose what they want to happen to their bodies, did you ever consider how much this bill helps out the greater good of society?

The concept of a Utopia is a flawed and idealistic idea, in my opinion. If one were to actually try and construct a functioning utopia on would need to consider the question of how one goes about building this Utopia in the first place, primarily the means of constructing it. For example you could have a society of perpetually happy, brainwashed citizens who possess undying loyalty towards the government; a society were everyone is nice, normal, and hardworking. But such a society would undermine free will and creativity; there would be level of change or individuality. Everyone would be happy and it would be a utopia in the traditional sense, but to me this feels more like a dystopia, for me this society lacks the authenticity and self-autonomy that I desire.

People also have different definitions and views on what a utopia is and how it should be managed. Some might find this previous example of a utopia disgusting, while utilitarians find it magnificent and ethical. For most though a utopia is really nothin more than their dream of what society should be, it is more or less relative to what the individual desires.

Also there is the problem of what means one needs in order to build utopia. For example, would killing thousands of people now, in order to build a utopia, be justified, if murder never occurs within the utopia? Just to what exent should certain actions be permitted to build a utopia, and how should a utopia exist if people have different variations on how it should be constructed?

And no, an individual with a DUI should not have their license revoked permenantly or even for several years, that's a completely draconic and asinine punishment.

People are dependent on driving, it is an essential function of our society, can you imagine what would happen to an individual's life if their license was taken? What possible complications it would cause for them, their job, and their life?

People need to learn to be responsible, and there are ways of achieving that; stealing their ability to drive however is not one of them.

Has anyone ever noticed how certain TV stations, in a desperate attempt to remain popular end up destroying themsleves in the process because they keep putting junk on their stations? Here are some personal examples:

MTV: the big one, probably one of the first stations to start this ridiculous phase of diverting what they were for. It used to be that MTV (and of course VH1 as well) was all about music; music vids, mics interviews, concerts, etc. Then over time reality shows and other trivial nonsense began to fester and soon MTV was a husk of its former self; it has become a mindless drivel of unintelligent reality and popularity shows that represent a decadent culture of waste and sensationalism. Why though? Whatever happened to a channel dedicated to music?

Cartoon Network: to say that nothing good remains on this channel would be a lie, as there are still new and hilarious progrmas (like Adventure Time and Flap Jack). But it is nothing like what it used to be in the 90's; shows that involve real people, the absence of Toonami, and awful shows (like Total Drama Island) are more present then ever, it's kinda sad.

History Channel: This. This channel is probably, after MTV (although with the direction it's headed in it will probably become worse soon enough), one of the worst offenders of network decay. There used to be a time where if you wanted un-baised facts on anything in history you got it. Now it spews piles of garbage about aliens, supernatural crap, and theoretical conspiricies about historical figures. I'm not sure whether I should vomit or cry.

Every News Station: relaible objective information concerning world events? Not anymore, that's not popular with little minded sheeple, now it's sensationalist bull-☺☺☺☺. No, thats it, anyone who watches the news needs no explanation on the matter.

Animal Planet: there was some show about ghost stories and whether a bison or a rhino would win in a fight, oh forget it.

Does anyone else have any examples that they are willing to share and is there any way to save TV before every network decays into filth?

The whole system of having to pay a $75 fee to private firefighter is in itself flawed in the first place. A method such as this is unfair to those who aven't yet, or are unable to pay an initial fee, honestly I don't see why such a method like this was created in the first place. Not to mention, as Killem2 pointed out, all it takes is one clerical error and suddenly your house and all your possessions could be gone.

Still though, the system should be set up in one way to ensure that everyone is protected, regardless of fees or what not; the safety of people, their pets, and their property should come first, then money issues should come second, not the other way around.

You know what, ☺☺☺☺ you. And ☺☺☺☺ everyone else with this bull☺☺☺☺ callous mentality. Firefighters are suppose to be guardians of the community, there to assist in the prevention of damage when people need it. Not stupid ☺☺☺☺ing heartless little crooks who sit idly by as your house burns to the ground all the while saying "oh well, tough luck, better pay up next time". None of you would be saying this ☺☺☺☺ if it was your ☺☺☺☺ing house burning to the ground.

I really don't think there is anything wrong or disgusting with furries, I mean, almost everyone has some sort of strange fetish, myself included. I think it's that most people are just too close-minded and squeamish to be really acceptant of odd sexual behaviors that aren't considered normal in our society.

The persistent immaturity among certain forum members within this thread is quite pitiful. If people want to embrace a symbolic physical representation of animals then it is their choice to freely do so, and under no circumstances do they deserve any sort of ridicule or shame. No one here would like it if someone who doesn't play magic insulted and mocked you for wasting hundreds of dollars on fantasy cardboard, so why should you essentially commit a similar action against people practicing their own personal activity? Those who do feel weirded out by the presence of furries are simply experiencing what may be a mild case of culture shock; seeing a person with cat ears and a tail on the bus is strange and unusal to some, and they initally show intolerance to those people. My advice would be to get over youself and grow up. I might find it acceptable (although not really that much) if teenagers were opposed to the idea of furries in public, because teenagers are usually stupid and intolerant of others, but for adults to openly admit that they would make fun of furries while they tap $60 sheets of paper is pathetic.

[skylights]

i went from always testing INFP to deciding i was really ENFP

But I've been learning through previous discussion on MBTI that extroverts are not always the social butterflies/super energetic people that they're typed to be as introverts are not always the reclusive loner they're typed to be; both types are capable of being very social around others.

yep! it's true. Ne doms in particular are the "introverted extraverts", because Ne tends to develop mostly as connections in your own mind - it's about perceiving the external world, but it doesn't actually require interaction - just observation. whereas Te and Fe require interaction, and Se is more interested in physical action than the idea action Ne is drawn to.

Does Ne need to be shared out with other people, or can Ne be mostly internal thought on the theoretical application of ideas in the present and future world?

personally i think it can be mostly internal thought, but what i've heard from many Ne doms (and how i feel myself) is that we like putting our ideas into the world, instead of contemplating them as much as an INxP tends to do. i don't think Ne has to be shared but i usually feel like sharing certain ideas because i think they're important or useful. bouncing them off someone else also helps me clarify them - i attribute that to Te. when i exput my ideas, i reconsider them in a logical framework, which is hard to do when they're inside me. i don't know what it is about talking and writing, but they help me revisit and logically group concepts. so i like talking to people on a Ne basis because (a) they inspire new ideas (inspire - i don't want their ideas, i want to hear their ideas and then expound upon and alter them), (b) because they help me see the practicalities i don't usually take into account when developing ideas (eg, why things are or aren't likely to work), and (c) because people tend to do things that are different and fun. Ne is really drawn to action and excitement, just like Se.

the things that made me decide that i was an ENFP as opposed to INFP were:

1. not feeling completely in alignment with the INFP profile descriptions. i felt like there was something not quite there, beyond just individual difference. i'm not quite as ethical, haha... more into loopholes. not as conflict-averse. more interested in random shit for the fun of it. it felt close right but not quite.
2. quite good Te, even though i'm definitely not a T. my Te is better than my Si.

a couple of the things that have arisen on the boards to differentiate INFP vs ENFP...

• ENFPs are more likely to approve of and respond to "tough love" - being empathetic and sympathetic but also mainly trying to help a person back on their feet again, whereas INFPs are more comfortable empathizing and sympathizing with a person in the darker emotional states.
• the ENFP "Te hammer" when we're angry... we're more directly confrontational when we feel like our boundaries have been crossed.
• theoretically, for an INFP, meaning will be the reasoning behind connections. for an ENFP, connection will be the reasoning behind meaning.

i think for me it boiled down to i'm more of an ideas person than a feelings person. even though feelings are very important to me too

one thing i do notice is your ennegram 4w5 sp/so type - 5 and sp are more likely to correlate with introversion, but then, those are just correlations. they could have to do with asperger's, too. i skimmed your quotes but i don't think that i'd be very good at differentiating INFP vs ENFP based off quotes.

something that might help you decide is the functional roles - your primary function will be the "Hero", while the auxiliary will be the "Supportive Parent". here are the roles for the first four, adapted from cognitiveprocesses.com:

The Leading Role - Hero
We tend to engage in this process first, trusting it to solve our problems and help us be successful. Being the most trusted and most used, it usually has an adult, mature quality to it. While we are likely to engage in it rather automatically and effortlessly, we have much more conscious control over it. The energy cost for using it is very low. Much like in the movies, the leading role has a heroic quality as using it can get us out of difficult situations. However, we can sometimes “turn up the volume” on this process and become overbearing and domineering. Then it takes on a negative dominating quality.

The Supporting Role - Supportive Parent
Once we have developed some facility with our leading role process, we are more likely to feel comfortable engaging in our supporting role process. In its most positive form, this can be quite like a nurturing parent. In its more negative aspect, it can be overprotective and stunting rather than helpful. When the leading role process is an extraverted one, the supporting role process is introverted. When the leading role process is an introverted one, the supporting role process is extraverted and may be quite active and visible as it provides a way of dealing with the outer world.

The Relief Role
The relief role gives us a way to energize and recharge ourselves. It serves as a backup to the supporting role and often works in tandem with it.

if you're an ENFP, Ne will be your Hero, and your primary drive, while Fi will guide, protect, and redirect your Ne. if you're an INFP, Fi will be your Hero, and Ne will guide, protect, and redirect your Fi.

[Savage Idealist]

Originally posted by skylights
i went from always testing INFP to deciding i was really ENFP

Yeah, the tests never seem to be as accurate as they should be, mostly because I feel that the questions are far too vague and simple.

yep! it's true. Ne doms in particular are the "introverted extraverts", because Ne tends to develop mostly as connections in your own mind - it's about perceiving the external world, but it doesn't actually require interaction - just observation. whereas Te and Fe require interaction, and Se is more interested in physical action than the idea action Ne is drawn to.

In that regard I consistently use Ne all the time (previously I had thought I might be confusing it with Ni).

personally i think it can be mostly internal thought, but what i've heard from many Ne doms (and how i feel myself) is that we like putting our ideas into the world, instead of contemplating them as much as an INxP tends to do. i don't think Ne has to be shared but i usually feel like sharing certain ideas because i think they're important or useful. bouncing them off someone else also helps me clarify them - i attribute that to Te. when i exput my ideas, i reconsider them in a logical framework, which is hard to do when they're inside me. i don't know what it is about talking and writing, but they help me revisit and logically group concepts. so i like talking to people on a Ne basis because (a) they inspire new ideas (inspire - i don't want their ideas, i want to hear their ideas and then expound upon and alter them), (b) because they help me see the practicalities i don't usually take into account when developing ideas (eg, why things are or aren't likely to work), and (c) because people tend to do things that are different and fun. Ne is really drawn to action and excitement, just like Se.

Oh I'm very like that; I often try to bounce ideas off of others to see what information and feedback I can aquire from them, like an idea for a new political policy or an idea for an interesting story plot.

not feeling completely in alignment with the INFP profile descriptions. i felt like there was something not quite there, beyond just individual difference. i'm not quite as ethical, haha... more into loopholes. not as conflict-averse. more interested in random shit for the fun of it. it felt close right but not quite.

Thing is I don't really align that much with the ENFP profile descriptions, but then again I don't fit all that well with the other descriptions to. It could also be that I'm not a usual extrovert that the descriptions describe; the fact being that I see myself as more of a "broken" extrovert in that regard (although I often try to be socialble around my brother and sister).

ENFPs are more likely to approve of and respond to "tough love" - being empathetic and sympathetic but also mainly trying to help a person back on their feet again, whereas INFPs are more comfortable empathizing and sympathizing with a person in the darker emotional states.

Yeah, that sounds like me.

the ENFP "Te hammer" when we're angry... we're more directly confrontational when we feel like our boundaries have been crossed.

I think I get like that sometimes.

theoretically, for an INFP, meaning will be the reasoning behind connections. for an ENFP, connection will be the reasoning behind meaning.

As much as I love the reasoning behind connections and the reasoning behind meaning, they're both equal in value to me.

i think for me it boiled down to i'm more of an ideas person than a feelings person. even though feelings are very important to me too

Same here, I mean I value my feelings a lot, but so do my ideas and theories.

one thing i do notice is your ennegram 4w5 sp/so type - 5 and sp are more likely to correlate with introversion, but then, those are just correlations. they could have to do with asperger's, too. i skimmed your quotes but i don't think that i'd be very good at differentiating INFP vs ENFP based off quotes.

I'm not sure about the 5 or sp, but I'm fairly certain that Aspegers combined with bad social experinces as a child have led to my hermit like personality. As for the quotes, I wanted to see which funtion was more apparent, Ne or Fi, although glancing back at them myself I see a lot more Ne then anything.

something that might help you decide is the functional roles - your primary function will be the "Hero", while the auxiliary will be the "Supportive Parent".

In this regard, I think my hero would definitely be my Ne, the guiding force that seeks change via means of new ideas, the force that wishes to create and ponder. Fi would be my supportive parent, assisting the direction of my Ne, supporting it with a strong ethical resolve.

Mabye in addition to truly discovering if I am ENFP, would be to try and shed myself of my innate shyness, and attampt then to socialize more in order to see if I derive more energy from that as opposed to being alone. If such a possibility holds true, then I could safely assume that I'm more E over I.

SuchIrony, Skylights, I greatly thank you for you assitance.

[skylights]

Thing is I don't really align that much with the ENFP profile descriptions, but then again I don't fit all that well with the other descriptions to. It could also be that I'm not a usual extrovert that the descriptions describe; the fact being that I see myself as more of a "broken" extrovert in that regard (although I often try to be socialble around my brother and sister).

yeah. i don't usually feel quite as outgoing and sociable and fearless as some ENFP descriptions portray - and definitely not for the first 18 years of my life.

As much as I love the reasoning behind connections and the reasoning behind meaning, they're both equal in value to me.

well and i think that it's not that connections necessarily win over meaning, just that an ENFP is likely to see connections first/more, and then consider meaning. whereas for an INFP meaning will usually precede connections - it will influence which connections are made.

Same here, I mean I value my feelings a lot, but so do my ideas and theories.

sure, and as NFs, our ideas pretty much always have feeling attached, and as NFPs, we'll weigh our ideas by how valuable they are in terms of feeling. maybe that was a poor distinction on my part

In this regard, I think my hero would definitely be my Ne, the guiding force that seeks change via means of new ideas, the force that wishes to create and ponder. Fi would be my supportive parent, assisting the direction of my Ne, supporting it with a strong ethical resolve.

cool. as much as i really don't like vicky jo, i found this, from her, that could maybe be helpful too -

The heroic process is typically a "solo" process -- John Beebe talks about Hans Solo in "Star Wars" as an example of the Heroic process. He works SOLO, just like his name implies. When he saves the day, it's all about his mastery, his brilliance. He is the center of attention, the man of the hour.

In contrast, the parenting process is about supporting and guiding others, encouraging their mastery and brilliance. A good example of this is Obi Wan-Kenobi. He is the "parent" figure in "Star Wars." And he is gently guiding Luke Skywalker. Obi Wan-Kenobi is using his gifts to benefit another. He is acting in service of another, unfolding his mastery and brilliance. It is a dramatically different energy and focus from the Hero archetype.

Another way Beebe states this is that through the good parenting archetype we do things for others. Even though they are adults, we treat them somewhat like children. So Beebe says he does Thinking for others; I do Feeling for others; INFPs do iNtuiting for others, my CEO friend does Sensing for others.

Mabye in addition to truly discovering if I am ENFP, would be to try and shed myself of my innate shyness, and attampt then to socialize more in order to see if I derive more energy from that as opposed to being alone. If such a possibility holds true, then I could safely assume that I'm more E over I.

i think that's a great idea

oh, and just something that threw me off for a while, i get exhausted after the socializing is over, but really amped up during it. i used to think that because i was tired afterwards, socializing drained me, but what was actually so bothersome to me was suddenly being alone and without stimulation. were i to have continued socializing, i wouldn't have that same worn-out feeling - only when it's all over. i actually usually have to really kick up the music in my car when i'm leaving a social event because otherwise i get a weird sensation of emptiness that i really dislike.

good luck figuring it out!!

[Savage Idealist]

Originally posted by skylights
oh, and just something that threw me off for a while, i get exhausted after the socializing is over, but really amped up during it. i used to think that because i was tired afterwards, socializing drained me, but what was actually so bothersome to me was suddenly being alone and without stimulation. were i to have continued socializing, i wouldn't have that same worn-out feeling - only when it's all over. i actually usually have to really kick up the music in my car when i'm leaving a social event because otherwise i get a weird sensation of emptiness that i really dislike.

Same here. In fact I think I usually do get more energized around people (well those that are really close to me, like my family members). I always get excited when I try to discuss a new theory or idea to someone, or when I try to talk with my family member about MBTI in order to type them (much to their displeasure ), and I usually do listen to music or something when doing an otherwise mindless activity (such as washing dishes). So for now I think I'm going to type myself as a shy/socially nervous ENFP, becuase I desire to be able to socialize properly with others. And again thanks for the advice