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  1. #11
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    Thanks for your reply, spankymcfly :-)
    For a few seconds I considered myself lucky to having both salary and benefits raised at the new place (to median values). But then again, this only means that I have been working for years for owners with an agenda very far from my own, at low pay. I think you got the better deal overall over time in that sense.
    We'll see what happens - perhaps there will be plenty of time posting on fora like this the coming fall :-)

  2. #12
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I find very few people that quit a job later on regret it. Statistically speaking, you're in the clear.

    Welcome.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Wow! I am going through a similar situation at this moment...but yours turned out much better. I used to work for a nonprofit that I believed was following their mission but then it became clear there was fraud and theft by the Executive Director. I tried to create change internally and the Office Manager and I tried to hold meetings with other staff (off the clock) to share our concerns. Some people wanted to meet, others were afraid of meeting but had concerns too. The Board of Directors seemed unwilling to act on the concerns...crazy delusions of how the Exec. Director could never steal...but she did.

    Anyway, the Office Manager and myself were fired for being "insubordinate" even though my work record was good. Two Board members also resigned because we were fired...very ugly Board meeting with screaming and shouting.

    I think you bring up some good points about Fe versus Fi because during this whole process I was trying to figure out how to create change without hurting the other staff with some sort of ugly investigation...in essence to protect them and the organization's reputation. Perhaps it would have turned out better if my Fi had taken the reins and I just acted on things quicker and not worried about the other staff.

    Needless to say, it has been very illuminating to see people you thought were ethical act in contrary ways.

    I am glad you acted and left for your own sanity because living under conditions where you question your role in an organization can eat away at your soul. And you are still working and that says a great deal about your integrity.

    Welcome and best of luck in your new job!
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

  4. #14
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    A wise man once said: "No one is on their deathbed wishing they spent more time at work. Enjoy your life."

    Another wise man said: "Your job is your obligation to society. Your dream is your obligation to yourself."

    In a strange twist, neither of these wise men were me.

  5. #15
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    Statesquechica thanks for your post, this fires off so many associations that I dont know where to begin. This will most likely therefore be quite incoherent :-)

    First I would like to say that behaviour like yours is very admirable, energizing and inspiring, especially to those of us leaning towards having avoidant personalities I guess - nietzsche once critizised schopenhauers philosophy for advocating living life as a cautious deer in the woods instead of attacking problems head-on in the common outer world (if I remember correctly). This might reflect itself in your 8-wing. I can also relate very well to this Fe-concern that can be hypersensitive to not offending anyone.

    There is constantly some kind of (in a wide sense) economic longterm and not very conscious decision-making going on. Should I act here and now in the outer world and take on projects with uncertain outcome whose success depends on cooperation and dedication from others and that will hinder me from spending time in the inner world?
    Or should I flee, and instead of using my energy to stop others, make plenty of space for myself in terms of quiet and long undisturbed chunks of time so that I can go to the bottom with the problem, form this Ni-Ti loop and not quit until I have produced a solution on my own? Perhaps a paper or book or article on the subject that might enlighten and inspire others that have the means to change. Chances are of course that it will be read by few and acted upon by none. Produce potentiality or kinetic energy so to speak. I guess this depends on prior success in different strategies and valuing the outcome.

    What I am trying to say I guess is that one should try to find surroundings where your potential can be transformed into action as effectively as possible. Sometimes it is better to stay and try to change. Sometimes the opposition is overwhelming and then it just feels that one is sitting out the hours - wasting ones life essentially - this is probably a strategy at some companies for neutralising potential unwanted competition - and then it might be correct to just walk away. This can hopefully in itself be a catalyst for others to do the same.
    But then there are the situations you have experienced - when the opposition is overwhelming but you still stay and fight for a good cause. I think all of us aspire for that courage and determination.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geonat View Post
    Hello there, new here :-)
    I wonder what I just did. Had a hectic but safe and well-paid job. Then a few weeks ago our company lawyer gave a presentation that really made me wonder what I was doing there with my, say, slightly differing ethical convictions.
    No surprises really, but I had never heard it so bluntly. I guess it was my Fi senex role that just had enough. So I contacted another much smaller company (with actually some sort if soul) with similar work and two days ago I signed the contract. Today I wonder what just happened and what I did. Did I overreact?
    Have any of you made a big decision just because it felt right? How did it turn out? Has your gut feeling or intuition ever led you wrong?
    Your gut reactions often tell you what you want. You just need to keep cold headed enough to let your logical thinking figure out the way to do that. In your case you ended up with hopefully more ethical job. I can see no harm there. Money is just money.

    I too switched from a better paying job in a mid-sized company to a smaller company with lower pay. I did it be in a company which shared my professional values and goals. I believe it made me much happier.

    Welcome to the forums, don't belive everything they say about us SJs, they know nothing.
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  7. #17
    Assassin from the future Qloshae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geonat View Post
    Hello there, new here :-)
    I wonder what I just did. Had a hectic but safe and well-paid job. Then a few weeks ago our company lawyer gave a presentation that really made me wonder what I was doing there with my, say, slightly differing ethical convictions.
    No surprises really, but I had never heard it so bluntly. I guess it was my Fi senex role that just had enough. So I contacted another much smaller company (with actually some sort if soul) with similar work and two days ago I signed the contract. Today I wonder what just happened and what I did. Did I overreact?
    Have any of you made a big decision just because it felt right? How did it turn out? Has your gut feeling or intuition ever led you wrong?
    Well hello there.
    I approve of your choice! But I don't think I should make examples from my experience, they aren't that cheerful. :P
    MBTI: IXXX (I don't even believe in it atm.)
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  8. #18
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    Thanks Habba (and everyone else!) for a warm welcome - I especially liked the simple but deep "Your gut reactions often tell you what you want."
    SJs: I had a recent eight year long relationship with an ESFJ and she had her flaws and super powers just like all of us :-)
    I was prepared to work on the relationship for the children to have both their parents in the same house. She wasn't and that left me with an impression of her being egoistic and clueless about long term implications.
    Any attempts to receive some kind of explanation or critique just resulted in cryptic expressions such as "I love you but i don't love you anymore" and "i dont know"
    Perkele :-)

  9. #19
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geonat View Post
    Hello there, new here :-)
    I wonder what I just did. Had a hectic but safe and well-paid job. Then a few weeks ago our company lawyer gave a presentation that really made me wonder what I was doing there with my, say, slightly differing ethical convictions.
    No surprises really, but I had never heard it so bluntly. I guess it was my Fi senex role that just had enough. So I contacted another much smaller company (with actually some sort if soul) with similar work and two days ago I signed the contract. Today I wonder what just happened and what I did. Did I overreact?
    Have any of you made a big decision just because it felt right? How did it turn out? Has your gut feeling or intuition ever led you wrong?
    That's pretty cool/unusual for a person to do something like that. Congrats on the new job, and welcome!
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  10. #20
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geonat View Post
    Statesquechica thanks for your post, this fires off so many associations that I dont know where to begin. This will most likely therefore be quite incoherent :-)

    What I am trying to say I guess is that one should try to find surroundings where your potential can be transformed into action as effectively as possible. Sometimes it is better to stay and try to change. Sometimes the opposition is overwhelming and then it just feels that one is sitting out the hours - wasting ones life essentially - this is probably a strategy at some companies for neutralising potential unwanted competition - and then it might be correct to just walk away. This can hopefully in itself be a catalyst for others to do the same.
    But then there are the situations you have experienced - when the opposition is overwhelming but you still stay and fight for a good cause. I think all of us aspire for that courage and determination.
    I just saw your response to my post and wanted to thank you for the kind words...and I found your post very coherent and applicable. When I first learned about the enneagram and then the wings I had a hard time identifying within myself which was stronger in me. The 8wing, I believe, has been a tremendous catalyst throughout my life and has gotten me out of times of inertia, but I still struggle with being avoidant at times, as is the nature of the 9 at heart.

    I agree that I want to be in an environment where "your potential can be transformed into action" (I love the way you phrased that) otherwise I feel very restless and question what I am doing in such a place. It almost becomes a crisis in my soul if I see a change needs to happen (mostly for ethical/moral reasons). In this instance, I debated with others and within myself what was the right path to take to do the least amount of damage and effect change...definitely entered a debilitating NiTi loop where I feel time was wasted and conditions became much worse at the nonprofit.

    I still look back and wonder if I could have handled it better so the result would have been different but with such overwhelming blindness to the corruption it was pretty unlikely. I do know change will happen, but it will be from an external force rather than the more gentle internal force I would have preferred.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

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