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  1. #11
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio View Post
    Yes, and this happens especially with new concepts, which must be correlated with my acquired knowledge. Since I discovered MBTI, I have done this with people too.
    definitely Ti. Which I suppose still doesn't answer your initial question, as both types use Ti. Assuming you've correctly narrowed it down to these two types, perhaps you might focus on determining how you use Fe. INFJs will use it gracefully, like a fine tuned instrument. INTPs might feign its use, but ultimately they are more likely to use it in a clunkier, awkward manner that might often backfire on them. This can be frustrating for INTPs. If INFJs use Fe like a sniper, INTPs use it like napalm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio View Post
    I like to check new information or ideas, but only in the few restricted areas in which I'm very interested in. I don't know if I have understood your question, however I deem I use new information to understand my previous experiences: for instance, after I had failed a piano exhibition, I bought a book about effective piano practice to understand my problems.
    I'm no expert and I'd check with other sources if I were you, but this seems to indicate TiNe along with a healthy usage of Si.

  2. #12
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Welcome to the forum.

    INTPs are more likely to break open a problem and dissect it to figure out the solution (Ti) while INxJs are more likely to capture the essence of a problem and look at it at its most basic level and/or look at the problem in a different, twisted, angle (Ni).

    The INTP is more deductive and analytic (Ji) while the INxJs are more inductive and focused on synthesizing information (expression through Je).
    Yes, determining whether one prefers deductive logic or inductive logic might be a good place to start. Of course everyone uses both, but Ti doms will probably use deductive logic more frequently. Ni doms, especially INTJs, might prefer inductive logic.

    Yes, I know INFJs don't use Te, except as a very weak shadow function, but the following page might at least help the OP determine to what extent they use either form of reasoning.

    http://www.celebritytypes.com/blog/2...-is-deductive/

    also http://www.annenbergclassroom.org/Fi...eandholmes.pdf

  3. #13
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    When learning something, perhaps a subject, the INTP usually gathers all of the information and tears it apart and fleshes it out. They would take the information in and immediately begin categorizing it, breaking it apart to see how all of the individual pieces and their relations to other pieces make the entire concept work. INTPs are also more likely to create extremely complex and complicated logical mountains that can be intimidating due to how they always work on fine-tuning ever individual part of them. (Try looking at @RaptorWizard's various theories, and yes, Raptorwizard, I think you are an INTP)

    Juxtaposing the INTP, the INxJ is more likely to receive the information and immediately see what the most basic component of the idea is, capturing the entirety of the big picture but not really honing in on specifics (though the INFJ does have a Ni-Ti mechanism, which can make them resemble INTPs). INxJs are more concerned about the general idea than the entire mechanism (unlike Ti-types) and they often take the general idea and will attempt to apply it in the real world somehow (expression through Je, this is also why INTJs are considered to be the strategists of MBTI, they hatch idiosyncratic plans (Ni) and immediately feel the need to put them into action (Te)).

    Also, there is this difference:
    I think Raptorwizard is perhaps this community's best and truest example of an INTP.

    edit: also, what Alea quoted
    For a dominant T, the persona carries a mastery of technical knowledge. Our frail limited humanity (including its emotions) thus feels vulnerable, so we ignore it. We thus feel our humane worth would be fulfilled through impersonal mastery.
    ^^I can't speak for other INTPs, but this is very, very accurate to my own experience in life.^^

    ------------------------

    One thing that I've noticed regarding NeSi users in general is that there's this really neat duality to them. They are often interested in new, particularly novel things and experiences, and yet they can simultaneously be very sentimental and look on new trends or styles with distaste and even contempt. They might, to offer one example, generally disregard most new music as boring rubbish and longingly talk about the good old days when musicians actually made music, but the next day they might be raving about the weird new indie group they just discovered.

  4. #14
    Junior Member Antonio's Avatar
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    I'm still unsure...
    For a dom. N, the persona carries an air of knowing the meanings behind things. Vulnerability is being stuck with only what is tangible.
    For a dominant T, the persona carries a mastery of technical knowledge. Our frail limited humanity (including its emotions) thus feels vulnerable, so we ignore it. We thus feel our humane worth would be fulfilled through impersonal mastery.
    I tend to identify in both the statements...
    INFJs use Fe like a sniper
    Exactly, how can an INFJ use Fe like a weapon? And an INTP? Can you give me some examples?
    I'm no expert and I'd check with other sources if I were you, but this seems to indicate TiNe along with a healthy usage of Si.
    Sensing is another enigmatic point...
    I don't know if my previous statement could be seen as a good use of Si.
    They might, to offer one example, generally disregard most new music as boring rubbish and longingly talk about the good old days when musicians actually made music, but the next day they might be raving about the weird new indie group they just discovered.
    However, I find this statement suitable to me.
    But there is another problem. I think I am more familiar to Se. I am a perfectionist (a J trait, I suppose), I hate disorder and I always keep my room and my stuff clean and in order. Even when I practice piano, I am often frustrated if I can't play a piece perfectly.
    Considering this, I could be an INFJ with a very weak Fe, not interested in ethics, God, saving the world and so on...
    A romantic INTP or a "live and let live" INFJ?

  5. #15
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio View Post
    I'm still unsure...


    I tend to identify in both the statements...

    Exactly, how can an INFJ use Fe like a weapon? And an INTP? Can you give me some examples?

    Sensing is another enigmatic point...
    I don't know if my previous statement could be seen as a good use of Si.

    However, I find this statement suitable to me.
    But there is another problem. I think I am more familiar to Se. I am a perfectionist (a J trait, I suppose), I hate disorder and I always keep my room and my stuff clean and in order. Even when I practice piano, I am often frustrated if I can't play a piece perfectly.
    Considering this, I could be an INFJ with a very weak Fe, not interested in ethics, God, saving the world and so on...
    A romantic INTP or a "live and let live" INFJ?
    Perfectionism is usually associated with J in dichotomy MBTI, but not always (I, for instance, am not a perfectionist).

    Perfectionism is tightly knit with Enneatype 1, though absolute perfectionism isn't always the case.

    A hatred of disorder might be indicative of Te, but I'm not entirely positive in regards to you.

    You could be an Enneagram-MBTI anomaly like I am and be an INTP 1w9, explaining your affinity for J traits and need for perfectionism yet also your assumed utilization of Ti. You still could be an INFJ, but I don't see any demonstration of Ni at the present moment.


    @Lyedecker Yeah, I think all INTPs strive to be as INTP-like as @RaptorWizard.

    Also, @Antonio, which of these reflects you?
    The environment must be scanned for tangible experiences
    Life must be familiar to my storehouse of data
    The environment must be inferred for alternative possibilities
    Life must have an underlying significance inferred by me
    The environment must be efficiently organized
    Life must make technical sense to me
    The environment must be socially friendly
    Life must be humanely congruent to me

  6. #16
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio View Post
    Exactly, how can an INFJ use Fe like a weapon? And an INTP? Can you give me some examples?
    a bad analogy on my part

    A romantic INTP or a "live and let live" INFJ?
    Keirsey said NTs are often "closet romantics"

  7. #17
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyedecker View Post
    a bad analogy on my part



    Keirsey said NTs are often "closet romantics"
    I don't think it was that bad of an analogy. The auxiliary function is usually the means of relaying your dominant function to others; therefore, an INTP whose dominant function is Ti explains things understood by Ti to others via Ne (aux.) with the utilization of analogies and metaphors (sound familiar?). Conversely, ENTPs relay their Ne perceptions, metaphors, possibility-clusters, etc. through Ti, which would manifest as explanation through logical principles.

    Concerning the INFJ, the auxillary function (Fe) relates Ni's predictions and perceptions to others in a people-friendly, people-oriented manner. When Ni starts plotting (and believe me, it does), it can create detailed plans that can be achieved through the utilization of Fe in a malicious way (social ploys, etc.) to persuade an audience to follow Ni's plan/route, so in this case, it would be sort of like a weapon. Interestingly, however, INFJs would be more apt to use Ne or Fi as weapons, as they are the strong, undervalued functions used to mock and deride others (these functions are actually called "the sharp weapons", or the dominant shadow process (The Opposing Personality Complex) and auxiliary shadow process (The Witch/Senex)).

    I couldn't agree with Keirsey's statement more.

  8. #18
    Junior Member Antonio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    I don't think it was that bad of an analogy. The auxiliary function is usually the means of relaying your dominant function to others; therefore, an INTP whose dominant function is Ti explains things understood by Ti to others via Ne (aux.) with the utilization of analogies and metaphors (sound familiar?). Conversely, ENTPs relay their Ne perceptions, metaphors, possibility-clusters, etc. through Ti, which would manifest as explanation through logical principles.

    Concerning the INFJ, the auxillary function (Fe) relates Ni's predictions and perceptions to others in a people-friendly, people-oriented manner. When Ni starts plotting (and believe me, it does), it can create detailed plans that can be achieved through the utilization of Fe in a malicious way (social ploys, etc.) to persuade an audience to follow Ni's plan/route, so in this case, it would be sort of like a weapon. Interestingly, however, INFJs would be more apt to use Ne or Fi as weapons, as they are the strong, undervalued functions used to mock and deride others (these functions are actually called "the sharp weapons", or the dominant shadow process (The Opposing Personality Complex) and auxiliary shadow process (The Witch/Senex)).
    Yes, analogies, metaphors (and paradoxes) are very familiar to me, especially if I have to demonstrate I am right in an argument.
    For as much concerns Fe, I will tell you how I live it, @Alea_iacta_est . I can't deny that people are important to me, in the sense that, when I have to take a decision, I need to think to what people would think, feel, do et cetera. Therefore, I see this trait as a strong weakness, because it happens very often that I do not what I want to do, but what my family wants.
    However, I'm not as cold as the INTP "stereotype", because I feel, and I feel a lot, especially about art. It's simply that I don't want people to obstacle me.
    The environment must be scanned for tangible experiences
    Life must be familiar to my storehouse of data
    The environment must be inferred for alternative possibilities
    Life must have an underlying significance inferred by me
    The environment must be efficiently organized
    Life must make technical sense to me
    The environment must be socially friendly
    Life must be humanely congruent to me
    I would choose this statement.
    Let's see if I can explain myself. The life I dream:
    1) Thanks to a book/patent/inheritance I don't have to loose all my existence in an alienating, horrible, repetitive office job;
    2) I pass my day playing the piano, composing, reading and writing;
    3) I travel around the world completely FREE (Freedom is the most important value to me, maybe it can help you to type me);
    4) Nobody stresses me saying "do this" "do that" ;
    5) I have a woman; she mustn't necessary be my wife, I simply want to have someone who cares of me... I don't believe in eternal love.

  9. #19
    Junior Member Antonio's Avatar
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    I tell you more:
    People who inspire me: David Foster Wallace, Ludwig Van Beethoven, Glenn Gould, David Helfgott, Vladimir Horowitz, Michail Bulgakov, Giacomo Leopardi, Friedrich Nietzsche, Heraclitus.
    Fiction characters similar to me: Dylan Dog, Brian Griffin, Batman (but only from "Batman Begins"), Doctor Zivago, Ted Mosby.
    Animals similar to me: cats, eagles.
    My element: Air.
    If I were born in a past era I would choose: IV century BC Athens, the Enlightenment, Italy during Risorgimento.

  10. #20
    Sheep pill, broster asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antonio View Post
    Yes, analogies, metaphors (and paradoxes) are very familiar to me, especially if I have to demonstrate I am right in an argument.
    For as much concerns Fe, I will tell you how I live it, @Alea_iacta_est . I can't deny that people are important to me, in the sense that, when I have to take a decision, I need to think to what people would think, feel, do et cetera. Therefore, I see this trait as a strong weakness, because it happens very often that I do not what I want to do, but what my family wants.
    However, I'm not as cold as the INTP "stereotype", because I feel, and I feel a lot, especially about art. It's simply that I don't want people to obstacle me.

    I would choose this statement.
    Let's see if I can explain myself. The life I dream:
    1) Thanks to a book/patent/inheritance I don't have to loose all my existence in an alienating, horrible, repetitive office job;
    2) I pass my day playing the piano, composing, reading and writing;
    3) I travel around the world completely FREE (Freedom is the most important value to me, maybe it can help you to type me);
    4) Nobody stresses me saying "do this" "do that" ;
    5) I have a woman; she mustn't necessary be my wife, I simply want to have someone who cares of me... I don't believe in eternal love.
    Those five criteria seem more characteristic of INTP (and INFP) than INFJ

    About the part I bolded...that's how I am with music I love. It's a very personal thing though, and it's not something I can really explain in a tangible way. When I make music, I approach it as though I am an architect of sound. When I listen to music I enjoy, I often achieve an almost zen-like state of contentment. However, I will often listen to music reflective of my present mood. (I've read that Fe users will listen to sad music when they are sad, whereas Fi users will listen to upbeat or happy music to bring them out of their sadness)

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