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  1. #1
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Default Angry 4w5 (of uncertain MBTI) lays it out real clear

    Scruffy triple-reactive outsider here, fleeing the small-town politics and stifling codes of social conduct of other forums. I'll likely stay till here till I get disillusioned and move on yet again. Eh, give it 1500 posts.



    I don't have much internet access, but I need to kill a few hours on holidays and weekend afternoons, anyway. See you then.

    --Sanjuro
    4w5/8w9/6w5, sp-last
    MBTI pending
    Socionics pending



    P.S. Also, if you steal my username and/or avatar, I will make you regret it.
    P.P.S. As much as it might appear otherwise, I am a girl.

  2. #2
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
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    Just wanted to say that I relate a bit...

    Anyway, hello!

  3. #3
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    Cherish this moment.

    thinking of you

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    Scruffy triple-reactive outsider here, fleeing the small-town politics and stifling codes of social conduct of other forums. I'll likely stay till here till I get disillusioned and move on yet again. Eh, give it 1500 posts.



    I don't have much internet access, but I need to kill a few hours on holidays and weekend afternoons, anyway. See you then.

    --Sanjuro
    4w5/8w9/6w5, sp-last
    MBTI pending
    Socionics pending



    P.S. Also, if you steal my username and/or avatar, I will make you regret it.
    P.P.S. As much as it might appear otherwise, I am a girl.
    You are free to steal my avatar.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #5
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    So you are open-minded about being close-minded towards people who you consider close-minded.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    Just wanted to say that I relate a bit...

    Anyway, hello!
    Hi!

    Quote Originally Posted by sleuthiness View Post
    Cherish this moment.
    Oh I will!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    You are free to steal my avatar.
    Thanks, I'll remember that. In all seriousness, there was an incident on another message board where someone stole my username. Lowdown contemptible and all.

    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    So you are open-minded about being close-minded towards people who you consider close-minded.
    You, good sir, have hit the nail on the head.

    If you wanna know the back story here, tbh, there was a recent incident (on yet another message board) where a number of people apparently have very narrow ideas about what constitutes a given type. They were all but insisting I was not what I say I am, some of them in ways I personally found a tad insulting. Wanted to put in the disclaimer. I will be close-minded on this topic

  7. #7
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    If you wanna know the back story here, tbh, there was a recent incident (on yet another message board) where a number of people apparently have very narrow ideas about what constitutes a given type. They were all but insisting I was not what I say I am, some of them in ways I personally found a tad insulting. Wanted to put in the disclaimer. I will be close-minded on this topic
    But of course! With a theory like this, which gets taken in any number of potential directions anything and everything can be used to determine any possible type.

    So the chances of everyone agreeing on a type for an individual is...well less than 1% I would hazard to guess. Of course the term 'everyone' takes care of that for me anyhow.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    But of course! With a theory like this, which gets taken in any number of potential directions anything and everything can be used to determine any possible type.

    So the chances of everyone agreeing on a type for an individual is...well less than 1% I would hazard to guess. Of course the term 'everyone' takes care of that for me anyhow.
    Exactly (although nearly everyone agreed on 6w7 for me, which is like..."wtf?" to a 4w5). No matter what I said, it was used to prove 6w7. I was laughing with disbelief by the end of our exchange...it was, well, absurd. XD

    Gotta know who you are.

  9. #9
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjuro View Post
    Exactly (although nearly everyone agreed on 6w7 for me, which is like..."wtf?" to a 4w5). No matter what I said, it was used to prove 6w7. I was laughing with disbelief by the end of our exchange...it was, well, absurd. XD

    Gotta know who you are.
    But there lies the interesting question. This theory has little to no evidence beyond heuristic, because of this it is easy to ask a person "how well do you really know yourself?"

    In fact it is a question you can often ask yourself. The more you subject the types to close inspection the more the lines blur. For there to be a reasonable assumption about what a type is, there has to be a same amount of reasonable doubt, because of this lack of hard evidence.

    You can, for example, interpret any number of behaviours to any number of functions, but of course we should use the process used to reach the decision that resulted in the behaviour, however that is then down to the individual, which brings into question the notion of even questioning another's type when you cannot see their cognitive processes. Yet people still see traits and archetypes among types, enough that they can use 'vibes' to determine how a type usually is.

    This raises another question of what usually actually entails, because for something to be usual and frequently occuring you need to have some form of measurement that determines what exactly it is that is so 'usually' about a type.

    Angles without edges, it's a big mess at the moment. Fun though, I suppose.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    But there lies the interesting question. This theory has little to no evidence beyond heuristic, because of this it is easy to ask a person "how well do you really know yourself?"
    Yes.

    In fact it is a question you can often ask yourself. The more you subject the types to close inspection the more the lines blur. For there to be a reasonable assumption about what a type is, there has to be a same amount of reasonable doubt, because of this lack of hard evidence.
    I've been studying this for over a decade, and you're absolutely right. The more you study it, the more the lines blur. There is a lack of hard evidence, only self-reporting and self-identification. It can become confusing, and any behavior can conceivably be linked to any type.

    You can, for example, interpret any number of behaviours to any number of functions, but of course we should use the process used to reach the decision that resulted in the behaviour, however that is then down to the individual, which brings into question the notion of even questioning another's type when you cannot see their cognitive processes. Yet people still see traits and archetypes among types, enough that they can use 'vibes' to determine how a type usually is.
    Yes, we're looking at patterns, motivations, and underlying processes, and the individual is best left to sort those out for him/herself. That's what I think, anyway. I asked everyone what the point of typing others was, when a personal declaration of type is repeatedly treated as suspect.

    But you're right--we can clearly see evidence of MBTI and Enneagram types in others--no hard evidence for it, and multiple permutations of each type, yet it's apparent to those of us who've studied it. I find it odd that people would claim to get my "vibe" by online interactions, though. We probably DON'T vibe online like we do IRL.

    This raises another question of what usually actually entails, because for something to be usual and frequently occuring you need to have some form of measurement that determines what exactly it is that is so 'usually' about a type.

    Angles without edges, it's a big mess at the moment. Fun though, I suppose.
    It is fun! That's why I'm here.

    Thanks for the conversation!

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