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  1. #41
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Okay, I'll bite.

    SolitaryWalker: How exactly have your views changed since you left the forum? You allude to a change in your approach to typology, and your style of posting is pretty damn different, so now I'm curious.

    Follow-up question: Do you still think that NTs are "more evolved" than the other types?
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    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Okay, I'll bite.

    SolitaryWalker: How exactly have your views changed since you left the forum? You allude to a change in your approach to typology, and your style of posting is pretty damn different, so now I'm curious.

    Follow-up question: Do you still think that NTs are "more evolved" than the other types?
    I think the below post by SW from the Evolution of typology thread answers your question:

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    You've got to hand it to me, this was a skillful display of trolling. The conclusions of this thread were obviously very narrow and generally trivial. However, it is remarkable how so many participants unduly likened my claims to racism or various suggestions that some types were superior to other types in all morally relevant respects. What I find the most astounding about this discussion is how much attention a brief essay founded on a very parochial set of assumptions with a very circumscribed scope of inquiry received over 140 replies. It's a telling fact that the only way this thread could survive for that long is by virtue of the users' zealous insistence on discussing topics that were at best tangentially connected to mine.

    In essence, all of my claims postulated is that certain cognitive dispositions generate tendencies that lead to intellectual activity more than others and inborn temperaments possessing these tendencies have evolved throughout the history of humanity. Because the emphasis is only on tendencies, not intractable personality qualities, my conjectures had absolutely nothing to do with phenomena such as intelligence, connection between typology and intellectual competence, human dignity and the degree of it that each type merits and so on.

    Altogether, I'd say Night's early response was the only one that displayed an understanding of my point of view and an accurate assessment thereof. The problem is not so much that it is absurd as many of my antagonists have insinuated, but that it is sterile and therefore does nothing to answer significant questions about human nature, the future of humanity and the relationship between evolution and intelligence. In principle, how can an argument be alleged to be preposterous when it is almost entirely devoid of content?

  3. #43
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    I think the below post by SW from the Evolution of typology thread answers your question:
    I smell a rat.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #44
    garbage
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    /mod hat off
    Mac sock account?

  5. #45
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Okay, I'll bite.

    SolitaryWalker: How exactly have your views changed since you left the forum?

    Before I left, I was under the impression that there was a clear distinction between "pure typology" and "applied typology". As you may see in my book, pure typology is an analysis of subconscious tendencies that constitute our temperament. Conversely, applied typology is an inquiry in psychology where principles of the study of temperament are employed to the end of answering basic questions of human behavior. These questions frequently include but are not limited to the following. (1) If I am a certain type, what does it say about the key qualities of my personality such as assertiveness, friendliness, sociability and so on. (2) How significantly can my personality change if my type was to change? (3) Does the type manifest itself similarly or differently across a variety of cultures?

    As you may recall, before I left, I was very skeptical of hasty applications of Jungian typology to psychology and it often occurred to me that the inquiries that many members of this pursued weren't that of applied typology, but of folk typology. Initially, I started out having hopes that although the scope of pure typology is very narrow, it may still be possible to use it to obtain meaningful insights about human behavior. Hence, I was still in the business of answering the first question of applied typology, or "what does it say about a person when we know his or her type is X" and that is one reason why I tried to determine the type of some fictional characters such as Harry Potter. However, as you may discover by reading my ENTP profile and paying close attention to my exchanges with simulatedworld, you'll see that I adhered to the point of view that manifestations of type differ across cultures. Hence, an ESTJ or an ENTP here will manifest its core type-tendencies differently from the way the type tendencies may manifest in China or Japan.

    Now, here is where I get to the answer to your question. My deep skepticism about how accurately applied typology can be used in the study of psychology led me to question the viability of many typological exercises I've participated in. In short, I no longer believed that determining Harry Potter's type is an insightful activity and I am no longer convinced that my own type tells me as much about my personality as I thought it did before I left the forum. I've also discovered that the scope of typology is very limited because its key premises are quite rigid and I've developed a deeper appreciation for other personality systems that were more flexible, such as the Enneagram. I still stand by my previous assertions that its key premises are amorphous and vague and that some of its conclusions border on implausibility, it is not as empty as MBTI often is.


    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Follow-up question: Do you still think that NTs are "more evolved" than the other types?
    You need to be very careful in how you interpret what I meant by "more evolved". To borrow Night's verbatim, I arranged my type-sequence based on a descending resemblances to apes. Stop right here and ask the following question: resemblances in what sense? In the sense that the core aspects of pure typology of some types or their fundamental cognitive predispositions can be more readily employed to engage in high-order cognition than the dispositions of other types. In that sense, some resemble apes less than others.

    Does this mean that NTs are more evolved than everybody else with respect to how much their type allows them to engage in high-order intellectual cognition? Yes.

    Does this mean that NTs are more evolved in the sense that they are more intellectually gifted by nature? No, it is entirely possible for a person of another type to have non-typological, inborn features that allow him or her to excel at intellectual activities more than NTs do. For all I know, some ESFJ could have a photographic memory or a host of other qualities that will allow him to be recognized as an instant genius. Although I've become much more skeptical of the existence of an "in-born" genius or about the value of "natural talent" in building genuine intelligence, I remain open to the possibility that some people can be substantially more naturally gifted than others. Because I also maintain that type leads us to a very narrow range of insights about human nature, I remain convinced that it is possible to have natural talent to acquire intelligence without having the temperament that predisposes you to engage in high-order cognition than other types would have.

    Does this mean that NTs are "more evolved" in general or superior to other types? No, I never insinuated that, not even when I first wrote that thread.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #46
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I smell a rat.
    Yeah, yeah, okay. You got us people, this is all a collusion between Zergling and MacGuffin. I, MacGuffin was banned for stealing other people's accounts. Ok, there, you have an answer to the question of why Mac was banned and why SW is acting differently, you happy now?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  7. #47
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Like fuck is that the real SW. It's funny though.
    it could easily be a smurf.
    i have him on my ignore list for a variety of successive transgressions, but yet the posts show up.
    it's obviously not his original account, but who's to say he didn't just make another?
    we fukin won boys

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    it could easily be a smurf.
    i have him on my ignore list for a variety of successive transgressions, but yet the posts show up.
    it's obviously not his original account, but who's to say he didn't just make another?
    I was wrong, I think it is him now.

  9. #49
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    I was wrong, I think it is him now.
    who really cares?
    everyone will just put this troll account, be it his or someone else's on ignore like i just did and move on with their lives.
    we fukin won boys

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    who really cares?
    idk man, you seem to care more than me. I was just speculating from a position of disinterested amusement, much as a benign patriarch would about the comings-and-goings of his house servants.

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