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  1. #1
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    Default One social nicety/misguided obligation vanquished

    Hello all. I am an INTP, to the extent I can say I am. For a while I've been hovering between INTJ and INTP, often curious about where I've stood. I've also, to be honest, considered INFJ as a couple people had expressed that I was "in-tune with the emotions of others." I am now inclined, due to my the past experience of my growth, to come to terms with the fact that I was more in-tune with the emotional disharmony that occured.
    I understand the cognitive functions, yet INTJ and INTP have collided. It wasn't until I thoroughly analyzed everything that I believed I was INTP. I had never clicked with the INTJ group on other fora, and during my research I stumbled upon a masterpiece of an INTP profile: http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html
    Everything clicked.
    The fact that I often detatch from my environment, often oblivious to the things around me. The fact that I am reluctant to move things around, and when I do I toss it somewhere else, and that I can miss things that you would have to be blind to miss. The fact that I also take comfort in music that I grew up with as a child, and that I still have childhood artefacts that I refuse to toss because of the memories and emotions they bring to mind, and the loss I would feel.
    I also love to take things out of context, throw in curveballs, and link things together in a humorous way. My friend is often left dumbfounded at my humor. Others have also expressed difficulty in understanding it, and have classified me as "weird". I can take things and twist it in the craziest way; I am often better at it through text though.
    I then realized exactly why I had often confused myself as an INTJ: In the past two years I had been jumping between my INTP functions as I sought to self-develop (a friend of mine is an ENTJ) and my shadow functions (that of an ENTJ), yet as I am an introvert I had confused myself as an INTJ. But I have never been a real leader, and have prefered to remain as a helper, in the background, often making great strides and bounds with my ENTJ friend (he shares a similar mindset).

    Looking at my past history, I have always been an INTP. What other type would systematically refuse to seek help for depression, and instead begin to methodically analyze it; make observations and hypothesis about it, and write a journal and a couple very lengthy reports on it? Who else would attempt to find some "greater truth" in the matrix of disharmony, confusion, irrationality, and chaos? Who else would go that far to understand the mind, and its complex structure?

    I think the most eye-opening part of that profile was the Fe description; I've always hated emotions. I despise my emotions, and have always sought to repress them at every opportunity. I classify emotions as "Unreliable, Illogical, and Irrational". I fear my emotions as much as I hate them. I fear relationships because of my powerful beliefs, and I have almost come to physical bouts with individuals as I dispassionately and relentlessly press forward in my arguments. If I had a choice, I would stay in my room, with my computer, and ignore life outside as I explore all that the internet has to offer. After all, knowledge and understanding is everything.

    There is one thing about being an INTP I hate: The awkwardness of emotions. If I had a choice, I would dump Fe for all that it is worth. It often chooses to surface and wreck raw havoc, often causing my Ti to either back off, or fight it. I also hate the fact that life depresses me; this seems to be a Ti attribute. To me, Fe is the enemy. I also fear one day that I may go down the wrong intellectual path, or analyze to a point, that I may cause my own self-destruction (I've had this fear for years). I wonder how many other INTPs share these attributes.

    I believe I rambled on for a little while; two glasses of wine often seem to reinforce my Ti at times; it can help drown out my Fe. Looking forward to exchanging text.

  2. #2
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Welcome Coz, i believe you may enjoy the philosophy subforum as well as the others.


    (Cuz! it's Coz.)
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  3. #3
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Hey Coz! I like your sweaters and Pudding Pops.

    You do sound more like an INTP to me.. but be forewarned, I'm an INFP and I type using my guts.

    Welcome to the forum!

  4. #4
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I'd also like to add that INTPs, in my experience, can be very in-tune with the emotions of others, especially disharmony like you say. There is no law that says Ts have to be unemotional robots and Fs have to be irrational nutjobs.

  5. #5
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coz View Post

    Looking at my past history, I have always been an INTP. What other type would systematically refuse to seek help for depression, and instead begin to methodically analyze it; make observations and hypothesis about it, and write a journal and a couple very lengthy reports on it? Who else would attempt to find some "greater truth" in the matrix of disharmony, confusion, irrationality, and chaos? Who else would go that far to understand the mind, and its complex structure?

    I think the most eye-opening part of that profile was the Fe description; I've always hated emotions. I despise my emotions, and have always sought to repress them at every opportunity. I classify emotions as "Unreliable, Illogical, and Irrational". I fear my emotions as much as I hate them. I fear relationships because of my powerful beliefs, and I have almost come to physical bouts with individuals as I dispassionately and relentlessly press forward in my arguments. If I had a choice, I would stay in my room, with my computer, and ignore life outside as I explore all that the internet has to offer. After all, knowledge and understanding is everything.

    There is one thing about being an INTP I hate: The awkwardness of emotions. If I had a choice, I would dump Fe for all that it is worth. It often chooses to surface and wreck raw havoc, often causing my Ti to either back off, or fight it. I also hate the fact that life depresses me; this seems to be a Ti attribute. To me, Fe is the enemy. I also fear one day that I may go down the wrong intellectual path, or analyze to a point, that I may cause my own self-destruction (I've had this fear for years). I wonder how many other INTPs share these attributes.

    I believe I rambled on for a little while; two glasses of wine often seem to reinforce my Ti at times; it can help drown out my Fe. Looking forward to exchanging text.
    Any and all types can and do get depressed. In your case, it is less to do with Ti and more to do with the fact you repress emotion. It takes an enormous amount of psychic energy to cut emotion off from consciousness. It leads to limbic system burnout. Depression follows repression sure as night follows day. Time to stop analysing and start feeling.


    Interested to hear whether Fi-users agree with this :
    The mystery of emotion is also evidence in the INTP's use of music. He always chooses to listen to music which suits his current emotional state, be it aggression, warmth, excitement, relaxation or whatever. Hence, the emotional state is assumed to be an unchangeable, mysterious property of himself. It is easier to choose appropriate music than to attempt to influence this. People with introverted Feeling, Fi, however, will deliberately choose to listen to music which helps them change and improve their mood. INTPs could never do that. They feel an unpleasant sense of disharmony whenever a music style clashes with their emotional state. Indeed, it is remarkable how much attention they pay to their emotions when music is involved.
    I don't do that, I do the INTP thing, change my environment to fit my interior state, but I don't think this is a manifestation of Fe.
    Thoughts?

    Oh, and welcome, btw.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #6
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Interesting question- I don't really know. I guess I do both, depending on the circumstances. If I'm experiencing negative feelings and it's not a good time to baste in it (like I need to be productive or whatever), I might try to play music that should help me change and improve my mood. But I don't know that it actually works. If I'm not feeling it I'm just not feeling it. Most often what I need when I'm low is just to feel the low for as long as I'm going to feel the low. Not fighting it usually helps it pass faster. Ideal, but not always possible. Sometimes it's necessary to repress and pretend in order to get through something so I can have access to the privacy necessary to fully feel whatever it is. If I have that privacy, then music matching the mood helps.

    If what I'm feeling is positive, what I choose is definitely in line with whatever shade of positive I'm currently feeling. Relaxed-happy, adrenaline-pumped, intensely joyful, or whatever.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Any and all types can and do get depressed. In your case, it is less to do with Ti and more to do with the fact you repress emotion. It takes an enormous amount of psychic energy to cut emotion off from consciousness. It leads to limbic system burnout. Depression follows repression sure as night follows day. Time to stop analysing and start feeling.


    Interested to hear whether Fi-users agree with this :

    I don't do that, I do the INTP thing, change my environment to fit my interior state, but I don't think this is a manifestation of Fe.
    Thoughts?

    Oh, and welcome, btw.
    I'm not discrediting that depression isn't something anyone can go through. I'm just saying that Ti itself tends to twist the world a little. Actually, I would put forward that Ti and Ne together can lead to depressing thoughts.

    Thank You

    P.s. by the way, I refuse to "stop analyzing and start feeling". I've gone down that path before, and even somewhat going down it now (stumbling into a relationship, but the other party is a Fi user, and I can't read them) and it hasn't gotten me anywhere. I will stick to the fact that emotions are unreliable, irrational, and illogical.

  8. #8
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    If I'm not feeling it I'm just not feeling it. Most often what I need when I'm low is just to feel the low for as long as I'm going to feel the low. Not fighting it usually helps it pass faster.
    Yes, quite. And incongruity between environment and mood affects mood negatively, I find.
    I think genuine Fe-users may have a different experience. I know several whose mood is almost entirely dictated by external circumstances - put them in a room full of cheery people and upbeat music and they're cheery and upbeat. Put them in a corner with moping, depressed or even just über-analytical people and they're bummed out. They seem to soak up their environments like a sponge, whereas Fi-users bleed out into their environments and change the prevailing ambience.
    According to this profile then, that would make INTPs more like Fi-users.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #9
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coz View Post
    I'm not discrediting that depression isn't something anyone can go through. I'm just saying that Ti itself tends to twist the world a little. Actually, I would put forward that Ti and Ne together can lead to depressing thoughts.

    Thank You

    P.s. by the way, I refuse to "stop analyzing and start feeling". I've gone down that path before, and even somewhat going down it now (stumbling into a relationship, but the other party is a Fi user, and I can't read them) and it hasn't gotten me anywhere. I will stick to the fact that emotions are unreliable, irrational, and illogical.
    Thoughts cannot be depressing without an emotional component.

    Emotions are just data. Your reaction to that data is what is irrational.

    It's like hitting your thumb with a hammer and saying "fuckit, why does that hurt? It's irrational! I'm going to take an analgesic so I can carry on beating the crap out of myself without it hurting. Because that's the rational thing to do."
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #10
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Yes, quite. And incongruity between environment and mood affects mood negatively, I find.
    I think genuine Fe-users may have a different experience. I know several whose mood is almost entirely dictated by external circumstances - put them in a room full of cheery people and upbeat music and they're cheery and upbeat. Put them in a corner with moping, depressed or even just über-analytical people and they're bummed out. They seem to soak up their environments like a sponge, whereas Fi-users bleed out into their environments and change the prevailing ambience.
    According to this profile then, that would make INTPs more like Fi-users.
    Absolutely (re the bolded).

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