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  1. #11
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    Default could someone please explain

    How key are external influences in deciding your myers briggs type?
    Last edited by return-of-uni; 04-10-2008 at 07:44 AM. Reason: threads merged and saying two hello's makes me seem like an attention whore

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    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    You mean, the environment that you're in?

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    They can be pretty key, depending on the experiences.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    You mean, the environment that you're in?
    yes i mean all external influences. how many variations to the standard seventy something questions are there to the myers briggs test? sorry i know hardly anything about mbti.

    am i making any sense?

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    Everyone and their brother has some sort of MBTI test out there, so there are zillions of questions.

    There are also at least three-four different methodologies I've seen.

    The sort of test you're describing.

    Ones where you just decide between functions in pairs, through all four (E/I, S/N, T/F, J/P)... then see what you have after you've selected a function in each set.

    Tests where you pick the best and worst preferences (out of four choices) in 30+ questions.

    There's the DDLI, which I'm not even sure how it gets scored but you get a type, PLUS some possible other types depending on some secret factor that judges the weight of the counter-pairs you might select. (Fe/Ti, or Fi/Te, etc.)

    And there's the cognitive function test, where you pick strength on a scale from no to yes for each question, and then it ranks your functions in terms of what you use most, then declares a "best fit" from it.



    ... but what I meant earlier is that, depending on your environment growing up, you might have had a natural preference for some functions but ended up developing other ones instead in order to cope/survive, or at least just to fit in. Depending on how bad the fit was, you could just end up a little less extreme and more well-rounded, or you could be really screwed up because you learned to behave in ways that are unnatural for you, creating tension in your personality.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Everyone and their brother has some sort of MBTI test out there, so there are zillions of questions.

    There are also at least three-four different methodologies I've seen.

    The sort of test you're describing.

    Ones where you just decide between functions in pairs, through all four (E/I, S/N, T/F, J/P)... then see what you have after you've selected a function in each set.

    Tests where you pick the best and worst preferences (out of four choices) in 30+ questions.

    There's the DDLI, which I'm not even sure how it gets scored but you get a type, PLUS some possible other types depending on some secret factor that judges the weight of the counter-pairs you might select. (Fe/Ti, or Fi/Te, etc.)

    And there's the cognitive function test, where you pick strength on a scale from no to yes for each question, and then it ranks your functions in terms of what you use most, then declares a "best fit" from it.



    ... but what I meant earlier is that, depending on your environment growing up, you might have had a natural preference for some functions but ended up developing other ones instead in order to cope/survive, or at least just to fit in. Depending on how bad the fit was, you could just end up a little less extreme and more well-rounded, or you could be really screwed up because you learned to behave in ways that are unnatural for you, creating tension in your personality.

    I was kinda thinking along those lines which was why i meant is there a myers briggs test to cater to children at the earliest possible age so that even if outside influences change his/her typology he will have say some sort of spiritual guide of his type at its most unmolested by society. observations of children of the youngest possible age group for the test would have to be observed and specific questions related to a normal childhood asked but the theory would be the same would it not?

    maybe someones original natural way of thinking related to mbti is thier best for all round balance in a character and thats why it is what it is. when would you say external influences first play a part to change a natural leaning to approaching the world?

    i would imagine that in the past say a couple of thousand years ago a person born of a type would be more likely to stay that as he/she would have far fewer external experiences and many more inner.would Jesus have died on the cross if he spent all his time filling in tax returns and chasing the pound. would he even be the same type. i presume a certain type leans towards sacrifice more than others so thank God Jesus werent born in some ages, as a certain colour or any other possibilty cause he might have had his type beaten the shit out of him.Imagine trying to be jesus in Iran or even of his type.

    If type dictates history and external influences change type then we are in for a rocky time because society pressures types into box's and stifles the individual more than ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by return-of-uni View Post
    I was kinda thinking along those lines which was why i meant is there a myers briggs test to cater to children at the earliest possible age so that even if outside influences change his/her typology he will have say some sort of spiritual guide of his type at its most unmolested by society. observations of children of the youngest possible age group for the test would have to be observed and specific questions related to a normal childhood asked but the theory would be the same would it not?
    It is an interesting idea. Here is some background on theory:

    Most of the practitioners say that the Primary function is noticeable earliest. Then around age 10-12 comes the Secondary. That's enough to determine type -- but as far as development goes, they say Tertiary is not usually developed until 20's and 30's, and the weak function not until your 40's or 50's (if ever). That's the standard "dogma."

    I don't think that's entirely accurate... at least it is not across the board. I had two of my three kids figured out at a very very early age (the one, I had a hunch shortly after he was born that proved right, the other we adopted when she was four, and I was very sure about her within only a few weeks, if that). The eldest, however, I could only get perceive up to his Ti/Fi factor -- I didn't know which one was predominate (and his primary) until he was age 6-7, perhaps, because then he was able to articulate his insides very well and I could see what was going on inside.

    So I personally think that kids are typeable a lot younger.

    However, I don't know if typing is the best way to go about it. Any decent parent doesn't need to know anything about type in order to see what their child is good at and respond/accommodate who the child is. The problem is when the parent is either insensitive to the conflict they're creating for the child or else is putting pressure on the child to be something s/he is not, thinking the child should conform.

    I would rather encourage parents to watch, listen to, and examine their kids -- learn who they are without even needing to know about type, and encouraging their strengths.


    Maybe someones original natural way of thinking related to mbti is thier best for all round balance in a character and thats why it is what it is. when would you say external influences first play a part to change a natural leaning to approaching the world?
    Parents are the first area of difficulty, usually. The mom starts, then the dad comes into play. Usually discipline and control issues -- the parents' expectations for the child -- result in modification of behavior. But if the parents have a terrible relationship and the environment feels unsafe, the child will be forced to change in order to survive.

    Next comes school/peers. The pressure to fit in is immense and should not be ignored. But I still think the home environment is the first and foremost one where kids get screwed up.

    Unfortunately, religion can have either a positive OR a negative impact. If it's used to modify behavior to conform to a particular checklist of "good/bad" things, then it can sometimes really crush a child.

    i would imagine that in the past say a couple of thousand years ago a person born of a type would be more likely to stay that as he/she would have far fewer external experiences and many more inner.
    It is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure. You see, cultures have always been pretty crushing... and traditionalist cultures even worse than the modern US in some ways. Just go to an asian country or India (I think), and you'll see a lot of pressure being put on the child to look and appear a certain way; fulfill certain duties; grow up and do a particular job and marry a particular person; etc. Some cultures had very traditional and regimented roles for people, especially based on gender. I think the modern US is probably more flexible in some ways, although religious values impact expectations and sometimes force kids to conform in ways they don't need to. The school system also for a long time catered to a particular type of child, and children of other personality types did not prosper easily.

    would Jesus have died on the cross if he spent all his time filling in tax returns and chasing the pound. would he even be the same type.
    I'm not even sure what type Jesus would be. And everyone on this forum will probably give you a different answer. (well, it's been discussed and no one really agrees.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    I'm not even sure what type Jesus would be. And everyone on this forum will probably give you a different answer. (well, it's been discussed and no one really agrees.)
    I would like to know even though I'm undecided spiritually on my beliefs. I agree with what you said above but i was refering to it more as a guide at the earliest possible age than anything that would be enforced although i see the logic behind your words and reality cant be changed in a day. you have typed your own children but do not recomend a guide???

    sorry im ammending this post because we both were working on posts and i didnt want to post directly after myself.

    This is the breakdown in the U.S

    I found the percentages at "The Center for Applications of
    Psychological Type." (CAPT)

    ISTJ: 12-16%
    ISFJ: 10-13%
    INFJ: 2-3%
    INTJ: 3-4%
    ISTP: 5-7%
    ISFP: 5-7%
    INFP: 4-5%
    INTP: 5-6%
    ESTP: 5-7%
    ESFP: 6-9%
    ENFP: 6-8%
    ENTP: 4-7%
    ESTJ: 10-12%
    ESFJ: 10-12%
    ENFJ: 3-5%
    ENTJ: 3-5%

    I think the most common type is ESTJ (The Enforcer) across the myers briggs tested world. Surey an ESTJ will force her/his values and core beliefs into the external world in a way which say for example an INTP couldnt and hopefully wouldnt. Therefore she/he would accomplish more type changing than any other. Do we want ESTJ's to dictate our future? maybe its the outside enviroment and pressures which creates the dominant ESTJ character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by return-of-uni View Post
    sorry im ammending this post because we both were working on posts and i didnt want to post directly after myself.
    np


    I think the most common type is ESTJ (The Enforcer) across the myers briggs tested world.
    Well, ESxJ based on your chart.

    Surey an ESTJ will force her/his values and core beliefs into the external world in a way which say for example an INTP couldnt and hopefully wouldnt. Therefore she/he would accomplish more type changing than any other. Do we want ESTJ's to dictate our future? maybe its the outside enviroment and pressures which creates the dominant ESTJ character.
    Well, the thing is the environment doesn't simply shape people (as far as I see it). People RESPOND to the environment. The same environment will impact two different people differently... at least, they will still look a little different afterwards.

    So the "seeds" of ESxJ are still latent in an individual, and these seeds will flower if the environment suits ESxJ people well-enough. An INxP might also develop Fe/Te (the primary traits of ESxJ) in response to that environment, but they will never really be comfortable or quite as naturally skilled as a true ESxJ with those traits. They are still run by Ti/Fi.

    And then we have to think about cyclic impact: The ESxJ who was triggered by the environment now shapes the environment, which in turn will cater more to ESxJ types the next time around. (Which I think you are insinuating.)

    Still, I think it's just the way it is. Every type lives in a different "spot" of the world system. ESxJs simply do control the external structure of society, in both how things are accomplished AND in what the rules of interaction are to be. All the other types fill their particular natural niche. (ESxPs game/exploit the system, ISxJs undergird the system and contribute to maintaining it, INxPs try to get the system to its proper inherent ideal, xNFJs will champion individuals and causes, etc.)

    Sometimes you will get a person into a "niche" they normally don't belong in, and instead of failure it will be a great success. (i.e., Abraham Lincoln as president... how on earth did he even get elected? But he did, and he was the right person at the right time.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Well, ESxJ based on your chart.
    No that was simply the US, i read somewhere that ESTJ was the largest group full stop that has been measured.

    yes your right male children who dont play sports well or have no interest will always be called gay, fathers throughout the world will always force their fathers beliefs etc etc. I am in no way saying this is stereo-typical but it will always be and questioning the structure of the foundations is somewhat futile.

    I think i might be NP but not sure are you good at typing?

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