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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah View Post
    *grin* INTPs aren't unemotional. We just fail at expressing them in a useful way lots of the time.
    Never thought about it like that. I guess I didnt so much mean unemotional as I meant emotionally un-expressive, that and that INTPs arent emotionally driven.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I have an expressed type as ENFP
    I'm still stoically INTP though.. just cheerfully so
    Expressed type? I guess this is the start of that head hurting thing you were talking about with the enneagram (sp?) test.

  2. #32
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreyDeath View Post
    Never thought about it like that. I guess I didnt so much mean unemotional as I meant emotionally un-expressive, that and that INTPs arent emotionally driven.
    Piss me off, do I not smash your teeth in?


    Expressed type? I guess this is the start of that head hurting thing you were talking about with the enneagram (sp?) test.
    Oh there are many many excellent tests out there. Basically what I found was that after I started looking at myself through the first couple of tests, the rest were no surprise.

    Oh and no, your spell-checker probably doesn't recognise enneagram. It is correct though.... I think

    Not sure why I never just taught mine the correct spelling and have done..
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #33
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Oooo SNAP!!

    I have an expressed type as ENFP
    I'm still stoically INTP though.. just cheerfully so

    I do have my results (as given to me) but mixed in with enneagram analysis. Have a look if you like 9 to 5 at X Hub just beware the crossed thinking
    Wow! Thanks! I had seen your site, with the little box with the Enneagram RCAIU and MBTI types right after I posted the first reponse, but I didn't notice the dark text below it discussing the FIRO-B.

    I have been trying to strike up discussions on this subject. The Temperament Analysis we use is called Arno Profile System, and uses the same questionnaire (by licensing agreement), but maps the ancient Galenic temperaments to the I, C and A matrices. The difference I believe, is a method used in the questionnaire response process itself, that brings out the inborn temperament, rather than just learned behaviors (which FIRO was designed to measure). E scores of 0-4, coupled with W scores of 6-9 have been deemed a fifth temperament that was not recognized before. (However, the behaviors are very much like an Enneagram type 6). The rest of the range will be the ancient four temperaments (Melancholy: low e and w; Choleric, high e low w; Sanguine, high e and w; Phlegmatic, moderate scores)

    If I might mention what your scores correspond to in temperament; you would be a Sanguine in Inclusion-CholericPhlegmatic in Control, and Sanguine in Affection. (Your report used Leo Ryan's unofficial names from his locator charts. We change these to the old temperaments).

    Not only that, but I had been looking as to how exactly the FIRO system matches with MBTI, and I concluded that the area of "Inclusion" corresponds to Linda Berens' Interaction Styles, while "Control" would roughly be Keirsey's temperaments! Under that pattern, ENP would be a Sanguine in Inclusion, and NF would be Phlegmatic in Control; making you ENFP! Also, the Inclusion, and Affection scores are not all that far from the Phlegmatic range (scores of 4 and 5), and the Control score actually is a blend of Phlegmatic with Choleric. Phlegmatic in Inclusion would be INP, and Choleric in Control, would be NT, which would add up to INTP! So it makes sense that you would indentify with either type! (E9 is also very Phlegmatic). Or of you look at it as simply Sanguine-Choleric-Sanguine, that would be ENTP. I bet you could indentify with that type as well.

    I'm I: 1/6 (Supine, the fifth temperament) C: 7/3 (Choleric); A: 1/9 (Supine Compulsive). Since the fifth temperament would seem to fit closest to a Behind the Scenes (being both introverted and informing); I expected to come out as INTP as well, and it seemed to fit from the descriptions. But in discussions elsehwere, focusing heavily on the function archetypes, I was shown that I had too much Fi, as well as Te in the relief position to fit that type, and was suggested as ENFP. I explain this as the fifth temperament's high "wanted" score causing the Fi. A person did an Expanded Analysis Report on me, and I came up clear NP, of course, but ambiguous in both I/E and T/F. The Choleric part is where the Thinking or "toughmindedess" comes from, but it is surpassed by the Feeling.

    This is significant in all the questions people have about introversion and extraversion; especially in the ENFP (which I see people are calling the "introverted extravert). The high wanted scores (which we call "responding as an extravert") are picked up as "extraversion" even though we do not express that way. We do like to be included in social gatherings, however, but generally lack the confidence to approach others. Also, while Affection does not seem to map directly to a 16types grouping, it does apparently affect the type. Having a compulsively high wanted Affection (and Affection being the most important part of us, according to Ryan), will also increase Feeling preferences.
    So it does not always come out exactly, but it gives you an idea how the two systems fit, conceptually.
    Last edited by Eric B; 04-09-2008 at 09:51 AM. Reason: typos

  4. #34
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    <see above>
    Okay errm wow. Thus far I've seen stuff regarding bacon lettuce and tomato (BLT syndrome), a load of stuff that doesn't make sense yet (it doesn't fit into my concepts yet, I need to mull it over and rearrange my mental filing to suit the new information) and something about Christian typing (that arno system).

    I think this needs a whole thread or PMs (I'll begin with the latter).

    Oh and you're quite correct. I have been identified by others as similar to an ENTP at points. As for my own analysis, I see the MBTI as a starting point and haven't really spent that much time working out actualised types or such. It was just a test I did once for fun. Made my ENFP friend fall about in fits of laughter
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #35
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Okay errm wow. Thus far I've seen stuff regarding bacon lettuce and tomato (BLT syndrome),
    :confused:
    Don't understand what you mean
    a load of stuff that doesn't make sense yet (it doesn't fit into my concepts yet, I need to mull it over and rearrange my mental filing to suit the new information)
    Sounds like Ti, right?
    I guess I can be that way too, when learning a new system. Like my trying to understand the MBTI in light of the FIRO/APS system, which I knew first. (I had adopted e/w as my "concept", and had to figure out how it corresponded in MBTI. Linda Berens' model was a big help there.)
    and something about Christian typing (that arno system).
    He uses the notion of inborn temperament in a theological way, regarding people as divinely created beings. Of course, it is separable from that view, as is any non-Christian temperament or type system; but that's just his focus.
    I think this needs a whole thread or PMs (I'll begin with the latter).
    I wanted to test the waters and see if anyone was interested first, before making a thread on it. It definitely does deserve one. But as we see, dumping too much of it out there at once will be too much. I have found nearly everywhere I go that it seems to be hard for people (at least in the 16 types system) to really wrap their minds around. (I guess just like it was hard for me to wrap my mind around MBTI quickly). It's really a simple system, and is also very similar to Enneagram.

  6. #36
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    :confused:
    Don't understand what you mean
    Well you try googling some of those terms and see what utter rubbish gets churned out!!

    There was BLM syndrome (be like me) and BLT but I've forgotten what it means now
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Sounds like Ti, right?
    You might think that but I couldn't possibly comment

    ( )
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I guess I can be that way too, when learning a new system. Like my trying to understand the MBTI in light of the FIRO/APS system, which I knew first. (I had adopted e/w as my "concept", and had to figure out how it corresponded in MBTI. Linda Berens' model was a big help there.)
    Well at the moment the stuff I've read on anything except your homepage has gone straight through without leaving a mark on my thinking (it doesn't even attempt to match up to MBTI... it's like working with Windows 3.1 again!! ) but your homepage is just about starting to settle in though it's a lot to absorb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    He uses the notion of inborn temperament in a theological way, regarding people as divinely created beings. Of course, it is separable from that view, as is any non-Christian temperament or type system; but that's just his focus.
    Oh it's most definitely not religious zealot stuff. That I've learned so far.. it is kind of confusing though when someone starts typing apostles when I've not gone near a bible in probably twenty years!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I wanted to test the waters and see if anyone was interested first, before making a thread on it. It definitely does deserve one. But as we see, dumping too much of it out there at once will be too much. I have found nearly everywhere I go that it seems to be hard for people (at least in the 16 types system) to really wrap their minds around. (I guess just like it was hard for me to wrap my mind around MBTI quickly). It's really a simple system, and is also very similar to Enneagram.
    Consider me one vote for you starting a thread. You don't need more than my vote, I'm special
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #37
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Well you try googling some of those terms and see what utter rubbish gets churned out!!

    There was BLM syndrome (be like me) and BLT but I've forgotten what it means now
    BLT is "Be like THEM" (a person who gains their identity from others, I think). The context you mentioned it in threw me off. But now mentioning its opposite, "BLM", I remembered that meaning of the letter. And yes, Googling it did turn up a whole bunch of miscellaneous stuff.
    Oh it's most definitely not religious zealot stuff. That I've learned so far.. it is kind of confusing though when someone starts typing apostles when I've not gone near a bible in probably twenty years!
    Just like there is a thread right now on whether Jesus was a Sensor or iNtuitor. (Christian theorists like Arno and LaHaye generally do not try to type Jesus). Then, you have all the celebrities given MBTI types. Most of them probably didn't take the test either. It's basically by looking at their behaviors. I think they are aware they they do not know for sure. They also type people like Hitler (full Choleric. Some Enneagram people say he's 6, but I would think 8, and some MBTI people think NF, but I would think ENTJ).

  8. #38

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    Ok, so I tried a free enneagram test and heres what I got:

    Type 9w1 with a Social Variant.

    Now to figure out what it all means with MBTI.


  9. #39
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Thought so. Welcome to the type 9 headscrew
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Thought so. Welcome to the type 9 headscrew
    That doesn't sound very promising!

    What are you getting at? You're INTP type 9 right....whats so bad about type 9?

    Now I'm confused. Type 9 is supposed to be anti-confrontational, and while I'm certainly not an aggressive, pushy person, I think the "like v hate" argument shows that I don't just back down and play nice with everyone else's views...although I will admit that in a forum, no one can interrupt or get too pissed, so the confrontation aspect is muted and its easier to have a discussion. Even still, I am opinionated and I dont just bend over to keep everyone happy (I chose my battles though, some differences in POV arent worth it, thats when I disagree but move on). Where does the type 1 wing come in?

    Ok, that all still stands as confusion, but I retested as a type 6 with balanced wings (first time:type 9 rank of 9.5, type 6 was my third highest at 8.2; second test, type 6 at rank of 9, with type 9 third with a rank of 8.3)

    I read the type six and that sounds a LOT more like me...wtf. You warned me, this is making my head spin abit, and Im getting distracted from the self learning kick.
    Last edited by GreyDeath; 04-10-2008 at 03:28 PM. Reason: further thoughts, more research

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