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  1. #11
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    First of, I'm happy to see you around, I'm in the Sonoran Desert too and an ENTP, we should totally be bffs!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadowKnows View Post
    15 years - probably 20 jobs and at least 5 industries. Whew. Currently building/running websites for a company that really values innovation - awesome.
    That's AWESOME man! nice to see an ENTP that doesn't jump around so much! I had 16 W2s in ONE YEAR once! Don't trip on the job thing, it's an issue for all ENTPs, just accept and embrace it, it's who we are.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadowKnows View Post
    Anyway - my lovely bride (ENFJ) just took a Meyers Briggs personality profile.
    I think it's great you're here to help gain some understanding. I don't do ENFJs, ahhhhhh, well, I mean I can't really handle them. At first, everything seems well and fine but to me they have the least sense of self out of the MBTI types. Always going, trying to make people happy, over extending themselves and utterly unwilling to see any of it as they're going insane.

    I have had a few friendships with ENFJs and tried to date one, the only time I almost dated a friend. It has never gone well for me, fundamentally we're just too different and they make me want to choke them to death. I need peace, I can't find it in an ENFJ.

    Remember this, MBTI isn't four letters, it's a function stack. It's the lowest energy use ways we look at and process the world and the information we find.

    ENTP is Ne/Ti/Fe/Si

    ENFJ is Fe/Ni/Se/Ti

    So it's not a matter of an ENFJ being a more organized and sensitive ENTP, they're two totally and very different types!

    In an ENFJ, they don't really have a strong thinking function so they're tough to logic with, for an ENTP anyway.

    So I think your issue is just learning to accept how different you are. She will never "get" you (not in the way an ENTP deeply desires anyway) and vice versa, the best you can do is love and accept each other and be willing to let things roll off your back.

    I couldn't do this, I'm divorced, at least now, by myself, I no longer feel so damn alone.

    Not trying to be heavy, just sharing my experiences. Damn, that sounds gloomy when I read it again, oh well, you can handle my reality without having to make it your own.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadowKnows View Post
    Whoops better clarify - ENFJ- the P is simply my typo.

    As for the relations of benefit - socionics is new to me - I'll have to read more. I do know that as our relationship has progressed (some 18 years total now) we have had to work to evolve.

    According to the short summary you linked I was very often the Benefactor. We have been diligently working towards a more equal partnership focus. Like all relationships, it is of course complicated by many other factors than simple personality traits.

    I do find it interesting that at one point we really considered splitting up - not for lack of love or care or attraction. But, because we did not see our life's goals and paths meshing very well.

    The exercise we used to overcome this challenge appeals to my more analytical/strategic side but might be of interest to some of you.

    Step # 1 We each sat down and wrote out a bullet point list of the things we thought would need individually to be "happy". This included career choices, family size, personal goals, where to live, types of individual pursuits and accomplishments. The goal was several options for each category.

    Step # 2 - We traded lists and the other person crossed out anything that absolutely did not mesh with their own happiness. (e.g. my wife loves the big city and I feel boxed in like an animal in the slaughterhouse chute in such places.)

    Step # 3 - we traded back to our own lists and highlighted our preferences from the remaining options.

    Step # 4 - we created a combined list of the preferred options with the goal of maximizing both lists number of preferred options and finding compromise on the remainder where possible.

    Step # 5 - We set action points for how to make that master list happen.

    Of course as an ENTP I did not move to this analytical process until the stress of the situation got so high that my usual MO of adapt and innovate on the fly just didn't seem to be working.

    But in the end, it seemed to work pretty well.

    As I said in my earlier post, I worry about my own drive for novelty as I get older (early 30's now). I can always sense a pressure building to change, move, hit the open road, accomplish something new. Those lists seem very concrete to me and let's face it - I'm really not good with concrete.

    wow...my enfj would make that list for my benefit and watch my reaction to it...the list would not hold any weight with her

    how do i know this? i have twice logically rationalized all the points as to why we shouldn't be together. first time we split for two months (totally my doing) and second time for almost a full day and after typing this post, im off to see her

    i should mention i was born a full decade after you and that i have only recently begun to understand why facebook has 'Its Complicated' as an option under 'Relationship'

  3. #13
    Junior Member TheShadowKnows's Avatar
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    Hello Samvega!

    Actually all interesting points. I think so far our relationship has faired better than most pairings of these types for a couple of reasons.

    1) My wife is smart as a whip - we regularly score in the same range in IQ tests. She is finishing a PHD. While she started in Theatre History she has ended up in virtual reality writing a dissertation on the human brain and cognition during participation in interactive narrative structures.

    2) We have both always striven to style flex. Her - likely tackling more strategic and logical arguments for fun to please me. Me - analyzing romantic gestures and similar things as a system with rules and levers.

    Still - you are right that there are some underlying challenges due to the differing stacks. However, I see it is an opportunity to apply lateral thinking to innovate new cooperative methods.
    Last edited by TheShadowKnows; 08-12-2009 at 04:40 PM. Reason: missing word and typos (so much for the IQ contention)

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    So it's not a matter of an ENFJ being a more organized and sensitive ENTP, they're two totally and very different types!

    In an ENFJ, they don't really have a strong thinking function so they're tough to logic with, for an ENTP anyway.

    So I think your issue is just learning to accept how different you are. She will never "get" you (not in the way an ENTP deeply desires anyway) and vice versa, the best you can do is love and accept each other and be willing to let things roll off your back.

    I couldn't do this, I'm divorced, at least now, by myself, I no longer feel so damn alone.

    Not trying to be heavy, just sharing my experiences. Damn, that sounds gloomy when I read it again, oh well, you can handle my reality without having to make it your own.

    i cant really comment on where you are coming from, but i feel i should point out a few things i experienced that counter your theory

    im dating an ENFJ...she 'gets' me. the randomness, the theorizing of stuff i do, the crazy connections i am sometimes able to see.

    also, as to the thinking part, she is enrolled in one of the best universities for math in the country and taking some of the hardest courses with that faculty. one thing i can tell you...upon graduation, one thing she won't ever be short of is money. thinking or not, she is NOT dumb...push comes to shove, she knows whats right and ideal

    that said, she does come with her own brand of crazy but then who doesn't...in fact, im more for a relationship that points to a rounded team of F and T rather than F n F or T n T

  5. #15
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadowKnows View Post
    1) My wife is smart as a whip - we regularly score in the same range in IQ tests. She is finishing a PHD. While she started in Theatre History she has ended up in virtual reality writing a dissertation on the human brain and cognition during participation in interactive narrative structures.
    Quote Originally Posted by thisGuy View Post
    also, as to the thinking part, she is enrolled in one of the best universities for math in the country and taking some of the hardest courses with that faculty. one thing i can tell you...upon graduation, one thing she won't ever be short of is money. thinking or not, she is NOT dumb...push comes to shove, she knows whats right and ideal
    The last girl I dated scored 1540 on her SATs and 35 on her ACTs, before that, the girl had her phd, before that a high school drop out, before her two masters and before that again a phd.

    Point being multi fold, 1) if brains had anything to do with longevity in relationships I wouldn't be single. 2) I got along best with the high school drop out and she also happened to be the smartest of the bunch. 3) I'm an ENTP, being able to score high on a test or read a book and remember it is of no use at all to me!

    In fact I would go as far as to say you're almost at a disadvantage with a girl that has most of her IQ being used in a fashion we just don't care about.

    We are faced with the paradoxical fact that education has become one of the chief obstacles to intelligence and freedom of thought.

  6. #16
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadowKnows View Post
    Hello there all.

    I am a media/marketing/jack of all trades who has the classic ENTP Career ADD moving from position to position as opportunity presents itself.

    15 years - probably 20 jobs and at least 5 industries. Whew. Currently building/running websites for a company that really values innovation - awesome.
    Oh yes, sounds very ENTP. Could be doing anything at any time!

    Anyway - my lovely bride (ENFJ) just took a Meyers Briggs personality profile. It occurred to me that I had to work to use that data to better support her happiness. As the whole FJ thing bedfuddles me, I am hoping to observe some ENFj's in the "wild" here and learn more about my own potential errors and problems as an approaching mid-life ENTP. Think of this like Gorillas in the Mist. Oooh does that make me Jane Goodall?


    My mom is quite attracted to ENTPs, and she's an ENFJ. It seems like a good match. There are a lot of good ENFJ threads here and threads/discussions about EFJs in general that are very helpful.

    Welcome aboard!
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

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