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Thread: Hello, everyone

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    It's not very nice at all to put pressure on people to share such things.
    If niceness were my primary concern, I'd be volunteering at the Salvation Army instead of playing virtual mindreader on the internet.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    I don't think maturity is a good measure, though... it's rather subjective, and implies that a type doesn't mean anything if a person isn't mature, because immature people are all similar. I do believe people can be immature, but I believe that type would affect how that manifested.
    That's a good point. I suppose I'd be more inclined to put it to mistyping or a failure of MBTI, then.

    I should have said, "They used it to try and justify that, but I don't believe it justifies anything." I was really trying to indicate how they were trying to use it... not agreeing with them.
    I see. Then I agree with you - I don't think that particular line of reasoning justifies anything other than agnosticism about the existence of an objective reality.

    Question for anyone: INTJs are supposed to be very self confident, which leads to their decisiveness. INTPs are supposed to doubt themselves, and so form tentative conclusions that are open to possible future revision. Decisions made on such conclusions are therefore made more reluctantly.

    How accurate is this analysis? And how much to actual INTJs and INTPs vary from this theoretical characterisation?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    Question for anyone: INTJs are supposed to be very self confident, which leads to their decisiveness. INTPs are supposed to doubt themselves, and so form tentative conclusions that are open to possible future revision. Decisions made on such conclusions are therefore made more reluctantly.

    How accurate is this analysis? And how much to actual INTJs and INTPs vary from this theoretical characterisation?
    INTJs have acting confidence in decisions, because that's how they operate. It's part probability, and part confidence game (how fitting) played on others. If they act confident, and are usually correct, the chances of being proved incorrect on any given decision are low, so it works in achieving goals.

    INTPs display less confidence, because achieving goals is a lower priority than disseminating accurate information. However, displaying confidence can be learned for specific tasks, when goals are more important than exactness.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    Well, based on that, I'm an INTP. The difference in priority between achievement of goals and accuracy of information is one of the things that most convinces me of this. I also have the INTP's level of confidence to go with it.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    Well, based on that, I'm an INTP. The difference in priority between achievement of goals and accuracy of information is one of the things that most convinces me of this. I also have the INTP's level of confidence to go with it.
    There's no difference in confidence, only the mode of operation.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    Apparent confidence, then. I don't do what you say INTJs do, and I'm not focused on goals the way INTJs are supposed to be.

    Also, where are you drawing this description - of INTjs and their 'acting confidence' - from? I haven't seen it before.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    Apparent confidence, then. I don't do what you say INTJs do, and I'm not focused on goals the way INTJs are supposed to be.

    Also, where are you drawing this description - of INTjs and their 'acting confidence' - from? I haven't seen it before.
    Try asking some known INTJs direct factual questions, and you'll get more confident answers than if you ask INTPs, on average. It's a generalization of course, and will be skewed if you only ask one weirdo INTJ and one genius scientist INTP.

  8. #58
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    If niceness were my primary concern, I'd be volunteering at the Salvation Army instead of playing virtual mindreader on the internet.
    LOL. Okay, I guess you deserve a real explanation. I wanted to interact with this person without knowing their gender so that I wouldn't be influenced by that information in my assessment of particular qualities at first. Now that they've revealed it, that information now has the potential to skew my perspective on anything else they say, before the point that I wanted that to happen.

    It's particularly annoying because there are so few posters who don't reveal that information upfront, and you just pulled it out of them and made obtaining the kind of perspective I wanted to obtain on their behavior and thought patterns impossible.

    Also, I guess I'm kind of disappointed that they're female. I had kind of wanted to be able to think that there was a possibility that a few male INTx's would fit into the particular category it seemed like they occupied. But now I can't do that... I'm stuck confronting the fact that they're just another female poster, and now I don't have the opportunity to imagine what their particular tendencies and traits would mean if they weren't. Instead of getting two good perspectives on this person, I can now only have one good one, and one of lesser quality that depends on the flawed way the human mind tries to ignore bias and convert information.

    If it hadn't been for that, I probably wouldn't have gotten irritated with you.
    Are you satisfied now that you dragged the truth out of me by refusing to care about being nice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    That's a good point. I suppose I'd be more inclined to put it to mistyping or a failure of MBTI, then.
    Well, yes, me too. Immaturity can be a factor, since people can feasibly have even their stronger functions underdeveloped... but it has so many different possible meanings that it's a rather pointless term. It's a generalized way of expressing that a person is deficient in some group of positive traits that the person expressing that considers important.


    I see. Then I agree with you - I don't think that particular line of reasoning justifies anything other than agnosticism about the existence of an objective reality.
    I would agree with that.
    Question for anyone: INTJs are supposed to be very self confident, which leads to their decisiveness. INTPs are supposed to doubt themselves, and so form tentative conclusions that are open to possible future revision. Decisions made on such conclusions are therefore made more reluctantly.

    How accurate is this analysis? And how much to actual INTJs and INTPs vary from this theoretical characterisation?
    It depends on your perspective. If you mean decisions that lead to progress towards a goal, then INTJs are more decisive and INTPs are less so.

    If you mean that INTJs are less likely to change their minds, you'd probably be wrong. It's just that with INTPs, you can see the shift more clearly. An INTJ may just unconsciously shift their perspective without communicating that they've done so, thinking that since they've now adjusted, they're right again, and simply making an argument based on that. An INTP may well be stuck on the idea that one principle they've come up with is true, and everything they say might look like it's changing, but the changes are only superficial, or different ways of presenting the same old concept... it's all a variant of the same principle that they stubbornly stick to as true.

    So even though it doesn't look like it, in some ways an INTJ can be more likely to change their mind, and an INTP can be more stubborn and unwilling to do so. The P/J thing really only applies to the outer world... that is one thing about function order that I agree with.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    It's particularly annoying because there are so few posters who don't reveal that information upfront, and you just pulled it out of them and made obtaining the kind of perspective I wanted to obtain on their behavior and thought patterns impossible.
    It seems the less someone wants the world to know, the more they display unconsciously, as if they're testing us.

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