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Thread: Hello, everyone

  1. #41
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    IMO you're clearly an INTP.

  2. #42
    Kickin' Ass since 1984 GargoylesLegacy's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Forum!
    I hope you enjoy your stay! =)
    Rule #1: Driver picks the music. Shotgun shuts his cakehole.

    Again, Demons I get, but people are just crazy.

    ESTP? o.O

  3. #43
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    Jack Flak - I know you think the function orders usually assigned to the types are wrong. I'm not yet convinced you're right (nor am I convinced that the old system is right; nor am I convinced of MBTI's general validity; these are all still open questions).

    For now, I'm prepared to take the old system into consideration. Yours too, and your arguments for it, when I get around to it. And any other resources that are available. That I use Ti most and that, according to the mainstream system, that indicates INTP or ISTP is just one piece of information that is worth considering.

    In other words, I'm not limiting my considerations to traditional function order, but I'm not disregarding it yet either. There's certainly reason to question it; I don't yet know if it amounts to a reason to abandon it.

    I see no reason to restrict myself to just one theory before investigating the merits and flaws of each.

    Because that would be illogical.

    Economica - Thank you for your opinion.

    I've had people say outright they think I'm an INTP, and others that they think I'm an INTJ. INTP seems to come up more often, if that means anything.

    GargoylesLegacy - Thank you!

  4. #44
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    I don't think P alone is enough to make someone so right brained as to lack precision (if being right brained means lacking precision to begin with). INTPs have both N and P, but allegedly lead with T, balancing them somewhat.
    I would agree with you in principal, and according to the theoretical model. The problem is that too many of the INTPs I've encountered... had short attention spans, couldn't follow something that had a lot of nuance, and were somewhat irrationally flippant towards convention even when logic didn't support their position. I found this very annoying.

    Then again, I suppose it's possible that those "INTPs" were really INFPs, ENTPs, or something else... because I know at least three self-proclaimed INTPs that weren't like this.
    Good question. I may well have a bias toward Ti because A) it's my most used process, and B) I'm probably biased toward philosophical truths as is. Although, it does seem that N and S are less about truth and more about appearance - they simply present information; they don't make judgments about its worth or accuracy. Te and Fe seem less about truth and more about actively ordering/changing things; they're interactive more than discovering. Ti and Fi, then, are the prime candidates for truth-seeking, depending on what kind of truth you're interested in...or so it seems to me.
    You seem to at least have a bias towards your idea of Ti. I could agree that Fe is less about truth and more about value judgments and social hierarchy, but Te... well, I guess that's more about practicality and getting things done. Fi is about strange moral ideals conjured from the depths of the psyche, so that leaves... Ti, by process of elimination. Actually, I guess I'd agree that Ti is truth-seeking, based on how the function is defined. Not Fi, though. Fi would be ideal-seeking, or moral-seeking.

    At this point, I'm at a loss as to how to reconcile the behavior of people typed as INTP, and the theoretical model of INTP behavior.

    Come to think of it, it seems like what many of them do is describe Te or Fi in such a way that it sounds like Ti. The problem is that these people are always totally convinced that they're INTP, and defend it rather strongly, asserting that they "know themselves," etc. It sounds like if I want to have everything in line with the actual model and consistent with itself, I'm going to have to reject a lot of people's self-typing and definitions. That's not an easy decision, though.
    Well, yes. There is that. MBTI simply isn't a scientifically rigorous system, so in many cases, there may not be an objective answer.
    I have to agree with that. That is one of the things that makes MBTI difficult for me to use. I want to know what the answer is, not what it probably is or might be... but I can't. Sometimes it's justified by saying that we don't even know if there is such a thing as truth, or if objective reality exists outside our perception... but the problem is with that, you could justify believing anything.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    had short attention spans, couldn't follow something that had a lot of nuance, and were somewhat irrationally flippant towards convention even when logic didn't support their position.
    Those characteristics really don't sound like INTP at all. Particularly short attention spans (I think I recall reading somewhere that INTPs are supposed to have excellent concentration, and it's meant to correlate with I) and irrational lack of logic (they're supposed to be one of the most logical types). I'd also expect Ns generally to be able to deal with nuance.

    Then again, I suppose it's possible that those "INTPs" were really INFPs, ENTPs, or something else... because I know at least three self-proclaimed INTPs that weren't like this.
    I was just going to suggest that they may have been mistyped. They say that ISTPs often mistype as INTPs, so that could be a factor, although I'm not familiar enough with ISTPs to know if the behaviour you describe better fits that type.

    It sounds like if I want to have everything in line with the actual model and consistent with itself, I'm going to have to reject a lot of people's self-typing and definitions. That's not an easy decision, though.
    There are also other factors, like maturity. All types will have variations, and there would be less than ideally developed people within each type. And of course, people's self typings may well be wrong - you know first hand how difficult it can be to self type. A person with a slightly off notion about types may easily convince themself that they're a type that they aren't, if they've heard biased descriptions, for example.

    Sometimes it's justified by saying that we don't even know if there is such a thing as truth, or if objective reality exists outside our perception... but the problem is with that, you could justify believing anything.
    I don't think that justifies so much as it raises doubt - about everything, rather than just the MBTI. But I still think there's a difference between accepting an untested theory like MBTI and accepting, say, that there is an objective reality. Both could be wrong, but you assume fewer unverified premises when you accept that the latter is true than you do when you accept the former.

  6. #46
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    INTJ. And if I were to guess, which I were...Female, age 18.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    INTJ. And if I were to guess, which I were...Female, age 18.
    INTJ on what basis, aside from my aloofness as already mentioned?

    And female, but not 18. I'd be interested to hear your basis for those guesses, too.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    INTJ on what basis, aside from my aloofness as already mentioned?

    And female, but not 18. I'd be interested to hear your basis for those guesses, too.
    I couldn't tell you why without an essay, and if I went to write it I'd just get blocked. We all have our uncanny strengths and weaknesses, I suppose.

    Was I close on age? PM me if you want, I'm discrete.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    I'd rather not disclose in detail. You weren't miles off, but you weren't particularly close, either.

  10. #50
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    Those characteristics really don't sound like INTP at all. Particularly short attention spans (I think I recall reading somewhere that INTPs are supposed to have excellent concentration, and it's meant to correlate with I) and irrational lack of logic (they're supposed to be one of the most logical types). I'd also expect Ns generally to be able to deal with nuance.
    I guess they don't. It would just be easier to remember that if I knew more INTPs that acted like that.


    I was just going to suggest that they may have been mistyped. They say that ISTPs often mistype as INTPs, so that could be a factor, although I'm not familiar enough with ISTPs to know if the behaviour you describe better fits that type.
    It might. Not to mention INFP and other possible mistypes.


    There are also other factors, like maturity. All types will have variations, and there would be less than ideally developed people within each type. And of course, people's self typings may well be wrong - you know first hand how difficult it can be to self type. A person with a slightly off notion about types may easily convince themself that they're a type that they aren't, if they've heard biased descriptions, for example.
    I don't think maturity is a good measure, though... it's rather subjective, and implies that a type doesn't mean anything if a person isn't mature, because immature people are all similar. I do believe people can be immature, but I believe that type would affect how that manifested.
    I don't think that justifies so much as it raises doubt - about everything, rather than just the MBTI. But I still think there's a difference between accepting an untested theory like MBTI and accepting, say, that there is an objective reality. Both could be wrong, but you assume fewer unverified premises when you accept that the latter is true than you do when you accept the former.
    I should have said, "They used it to try and justify that, but I don't believe it justifies anything." I was really trying to indicate how they were trying to use it... not agreeing with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    INTJ. And if I were to guess, which I were...Female, age 18.
    Age and gender guesses? I'm pretty sure if they wanted to share that, they would have volunteered it already. It's not very nice at all to put pressure on people to share such things.

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