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Thread: Hello, everyone

  1. #11
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    Probably mostly MBTI stuff, I guess. Nothing specific. I should probably have said "I look forward to participating in lively and interesting conversations", or something a little clearer like that.
    Oh, I see. That's pretty much why I (and most people) come here. I was kind of hoping you had a specific topic in mind so I would have something to respond to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    I've been over at INTJ forum; they helped me with my typing. I test as INTJ usually, but I had reasons to doubt the J. I'm still not sure I'm not a J, but looking at type descriptions and cognitive processes, INTP seems to fit better for now.
    I see. Well, I imagine the INTJs would know an INTJ from an INTP, so... it's probable that you are an INTP.

    I wish I could be that certain of my type.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    Athenian - What types are you thinking you might be? Any letters you lean more confidently toward?

    If it makes you feel any better, it's probably quite healthy to be a balance of things and therefore difficult to figure out.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    Athenian - What types are you thinking you might be? Any letters you lean more confidently toward?

    If it makes you feel any better, it's probably quite healthy to be a balance of things and therefore difficult to figure out.
    I'm rather certain of being an I, and fairly confident in J as well.

    I think I might be an INFJ, but I'm not at all certain on N or F.

    If I'm not an INFJ, that probably makes me either an INTx, or an ISxJ of some kind.

    I know I'm probably not an E or an SP... I'm just not laid back or externally oriented enough.

    And thank you... I really get frustrated with myself not being certain of my type. I just see so many different interpretations of what a type means, that... well, there just doesn't seem to be any clear marks of a type that aren't incredibly subjective.

    It's kind of ironic that you're the one offering to help me out, since you just got here. I was hoping to help you.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    Ha ha, yes, I can see the irony in that - overstepping my bounds much?

    I get what you're saying about the subjectivity, though. While I was trying to work out my type, it struck me that people differ greatly in their conceptions of any given type. And it's difficult to get objective advice, because, for an example from my own experience, INTJs don't really 'get' INTPs, and vice versa. There's no one source of information that can tell you what one type is like and what the other type is like with the same degree of authority, objectivity and insight.

    This, however:
    I just see so many different interpretations of what a type means, that...
    Strikes me as Nish; Ne-ish even. For what it's worth.

    And this:
    there just doesn't seem to be any clear marks of a type that aren't incredibly subjective.
    Is one of the reasons I'm not entirely convinced of the validity of MBTI in its current form. At least, there is room for middle-ground people who fall between types, and there is a lot of variation within types, because there aren't sixteen neat kinds of people in the world. Type must be, at best, an approximation, to which some people may happen to more closely conform than others.

  5. #15
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    Ha ha, yes, I can see the irony in that - overstepping my bounds much?
    Well, if by bounds you mean expectations, yes.
    I get what you're saying about the subjectivity, though. While I was trying to work out my type, it struck me that people differ greatly in their conceptions of any given type. And it's difficult to get objective advice, because, for an example from my own experience, INTJs don't really 'get' INTPs, and vice versa. There's no one source of information that can tell you what one type is like and what the other type is like with the same degree of authority, objectivity and insight.

    And this:

    Is one of the reasons I'm not entirely convinced of the validity of MBTI in its current form. At least, there is room for middle-ground people who fall between types, and there is a lot of variation within types, because there aren't sixteen neat kinds of people in the world. Type must be, at best, an approximation, to which some people may happen to more closely conform than others.
    Wow. It sounds like you've thought through the system as much as I have already. Everything you're saying has crossed my mind and roughly matches my perspective of it at this point. I've come to see it as more a conceptual toy than anything else.

    You're definitely right that there's no definitive source of information, that heavy approximation is necessary, and that the validity is questionable.

    This, however:

    Strikes me as Nish; Ne-ish even. For what it's worth.
    Ah, thanks for sharing your thoughts here. I feel bad about taking the focus off of you, though, but you seem to just already "get it," so I have nothing left to really explain to you about it.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    Well, if by bounds you mean expectations, yes.
    Ah. Sorry...

    Wow. It sounds like you've thought through the system as much as I have already.
    I've investigated the theory behind it in an attempt to type myself, and this broadened out as a result of curiosity. So while I'm new to this board, I'm not as new to MBTI stuff in general.

    I've come to see it as more a conceptual toy than anything else.
    All the more reason to not let it worry you that you're difficult to type - all it means is that the system was designed taking a different set of personalities as typical/generalisable.

    I feel bad about taking the focus off of you, though, but you seem to just already "get it," so I have nothing left to really explain to you about it.
    That's quite ok. I came for interesting discussions of MBTI, and in my first thread I've already had the chance to question its validity and discuss problems with its application that arise from the natural bias all people will inevitably have as a result of falling somewhere within the framework. This is certainly interesting stuff.

    I'm sorry I couldn't help more with your type, but being uncertain as I am of my own type, I'm not in a strong position to do so.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    Ah. Sorry...
    Don't be sorry. I just meant that I expected you not to know very much about this stuff, being new. In this case, not meeting my expectations was a GOOD thing, because they're very low.

    All the more reason to not let it worry you that you're difficult to type - all it means is that the system was designed taking a different set of personalities as typical/generalisable.
    Yes, you're right... it's just hard to stop pushing myself to just figure it out already.
    That's quite ok. I came for interesting discussions of MBTI, and in my first thread I've already had the chance to question its validity and discuss problems with its application that arise from the natural bias all people will inevitably have as a result of falling somewhere within the framework. This is certainly interesting stuff.

    I'm sorry I couldn't help more with your type, but being uncertain as I am of my own type, I'm not in a strong position to do so.
    I'm glad you've enjoyed it here so far. Don't worry about being uncertain... I'm actually surprised because you seemed so sure of yourself eariler. Even some of the "experts" here have trouble typing me... seriously.

    Well, my turn now... what letters are you most and least sure of, and why? And how much stock do you put in functional analysis?

  8. #18
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    Yes, you're right... it's just hard to stop pushing myself to just figure it out already.
    I definitely understand. As much as I doubt the system, I still feel, perhaps irrationally, that I'd like ot know for sure what type I am.

    Don't worry about being uncertain... I'm actually surprised because you seemed so sure of yourself eariler.
    Welcome to the mess that is my is-it-a-J-or-a-P self.

    Well, my turn now... what letters are you most and least sure of, and why?
    The P/J. I'm certain of I and N, and T is also strong (although I have a reasonably well developed F of some kind as well). But I have J and P traits - I plan ahead/organise for some things, and actively resist scheduling for others. It depends on a lot. I think I lean toward P, though - I put off making decisions as long as I can, I always want to wait for more information before making decisions, and I'm happy to remain agnostic on most issues while I continue investigation.

    And how much stock do you put in functional analysis?
    Not all that much. At least, I'm quite wary of the descriptions of introverted and extraverted forms of the processes themselves. The definitions of N is vague, so I doubt Ni and Ne can be that precise, for instance - and Ni+Ne doesn't quite seem to add up to everything N is meant to be, either.

    It would be convenient if it were valid, because as Ti dominant with N, I'd be much more confident saying I'm an INTP. But I'm not convinced that, for example, INTJ doesn't frequently use Ti-like processes, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Point Two View Post
    It would be convenient if it were valid, because as Ti dominant with N, I'd be much more confident saying I'm an INTP. But I'm not convinced that, for example, INTJ doesn't frequently use Ti-like processes, etc.
    Yeah...That's an issue all right. I'm on the side which says the INTJ is Thinking dominant, and the INTP Intuition.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Yeah...That's an issue all right. I'm on the side which says the INTJ is Thinking dominant, and the INTP Intuition.
    From the outside, things certainly look that way. INTJ looks more ordered and logical than INTP, and INTP looks more abstract. But if an INTJ has Ni dominant, backed up with Te, then it's the thinking you're actually seeing, because it's extraverted (and it's the intuition you see on an INTP, since for them, that's extraverted). But INTJ might be wildly abstract on the inside, and INTP might be very logical.

    So I get why INTJ would be given/described as Ni Te and INTP Ti Ne. But I'm not sure I agree with it - or even with the breakdown of each letter into its two forms.

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