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  1. #11
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm finding her use of the Beebe model for her emotional breakdown problematic, too. Inferior Fe explains her outburst just as well if not better. Being "inferior" can have one mistake it for "introverted", as its unconscious, as it appears to arise from nowhere, for no reason.

    But note: she doesn't go into depression, she doesn't go into an Si-Fi loop or anything analogous or introverted. No, she throws an explosive tantrum that destroys her environment. She does it in private, but that's primarily an extroverted expression of feeling.

    Further, if you read Quenk's seminal book on the subject ([INTP] Recognizing the Inferior Function in INTP), Ti doms inferior erupts when their own personal values remain unrecognized (by others - extroverted!), and as she says, "But what about me?!"

    PeaceBaby is correct, Fi isn't emotional, nor is Fe. Fi and Fe are about how you HANDLE emotions, which is kind of a "meta-emotion" concept. Fi is introspective about emotions. Read how PB strives to investigate and understand them more fully. Fe is more proactive about emotions, trying to resolve things externally.

    As a contrary example, an ENTJ having an emotional burst isn't going to throw a temper tantrum. Being loud and forceful is their NORMAL mode. When they get emotional, they crawl inside themselves, become depressed, avoid contact, and try to protect their emotional core from being hurt. This is the opposite of the author's Ti-dom episode.

    In general, I think the Beebe model overexplains things. And even though Nardi's EEG studies are unscientific, there is one thing they DO disprove: the functions do not appear in BOTH attitudes in an individual. Only the Ne dom/aux types exhibit the "christmas tree" pattern. None of the other types do. As such, I find that the four-function model, with each of the four functions assigned a particular attitude, explains things "just enough". In this case, inferior Fe explains the author's outburst. She needs to put her feelings "out there" in order to examine them. She can't examine them while they're still internalized and unconscious.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.
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  2. #12
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    Honey, that Cat and I P'd.....

    (facepalm)

  3. #13
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Yeah, I'm finding her use of the Beebe model for her emotional breakdown problematic, too. Inferior Fe explains her outburst just as well if not better. Being "inferior" can have one mistake it for "introverted", as its unconscious, as it appears to arise from nowhere, for no reason.

    But note: she doesn't go into depression, she doesn't go into an Si-Fi loop or anything analogous or introverted. No, she throws an explosive tantrum that destroys her environment. She does it in private, but that's primarily an extroverted expression of feeling.

    Further, if you read Quenk's seminal book on the subject ([INTP] Recognizing the Inferior Function in INTP), Ti doms inferior erupts when their own personal values remain unrecognized (by others - extroverted!), and as she says, "But what about me?!"

    PeaceBaby is correct, Fi isn't emotional, nor is Fe. Fi and Fe are about how you HANDLE emotions, which is kind of a "meta-emotion" concept. Fi is introspective about emotions. Read how PB strives to investigate and understand them more fully. Fe is more proactive about emotions, trying to resolve things externally.

    As a contrary example, an ENTJ having an emotional burst isn't going to throw a temper tantrum. Being loud and forceful is their NORMAL mode. When they get emotional, they crawl inside themselves, become depressed, avoid contact, and try to protect their emotional core from being hurt. This is the opposite of the author's Ti-dom episode.

    In general, I think the Beebe model overexplains things. And even though Nardi's EEG studies are unscientific, there is one thing they DO disprove: the functions do not appear in BOTH attitudes in an individual. Only the Ne dom/aux types exhibit the "christmas tree" pattern. None of the other types do. As such, I find that the four-function model, with each of the four functions assigned a particular attitude, explains things "just enough". In this case, inferior Fe explains the author's outburst. She needs to put her feelings "out there" in order to examine them. She can't examine them while they're still internalized and unconscious.
    I also disagreed with the OP's characterization, or Beebe's model (I couldn't tell which, from the writing...!), on the differences between Ne and Ni, i.e.

    perceiving differences: ‘What does this pattern tell me about the world?’ (extraverted intuition) vs. ‘What is the personal meaning of this?’ (introverted intuition).

    I don't regard Ni as a "personal" meaning but rather as a (if you will) pattern, or data map of the world -- the map may be internal, personal, true, but it contains information (and information which is as accurate as I can make it, too) embodied in a pattern, which contains essentials about the *external* world. Conversely, the Extraverted Intuition is a shallow knowledge of the external world, but it is something that is *stored* internallly.

    I've never figured out a better choice of language: but then, I am not in a position to revise MBTI theory and nomenclature single-handed.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    @PeaceBaby I agree with you completely on this.

    As @uumlau said,
    PeaceBaby is correct, Fi isn't emotional, nor is Fe. Fi and Fe are about how you HANDLE emotions, which is kind of a "meta-emotion" concept. Fi is introspective about emotions. Read how PB strives to investigate and understand them more fully. Fe is more proactive about emotions, trying to resolve things externally.
    However, I did appreciate the way studying types helped her and her husband. I also like how she said they divided their tasks based on type.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

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