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  1. #21
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    I've always seen INTJs as kind of the "NF" of the NTs. I'm not sure why precisely, I guess I find that while I personally have emotions as well - being of a mammalian persuasion - I find that INTJs seem to me to be more driven and influenced by their emotions than most NTPs I know who rather use emotions as a 'perception' tool more often than a driver of action and one's perspectives.
    You might be getting that vibe from the Ni, which comes across as a "gut feeling" based on limited factual data, yet accompanied by a strong conviction.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    IME the manner of speaking in the video below is more typical and closer to my own.
    She seems perfectly down to Earth and personable, and not what I was expecting from INTJ... which is some really distinctive, 'not quite like most humans' kind of aura haha.

    The reason I say that is because, not just from seeing what INTJs sound like on the internet, which definitely is wholly separate from the rest of humanity lol, but also... the speech used. Which is extremely and scrupulously punctilious, evidenced by every post you have ever made lol.

    It's just so abnormally, painstakingly rigorous to grammar, punctuation, spelling, the vocabulary used has more uncommon words, the general sound of their speech is very professorial... so I thought, man, if they sound like that in real life then they would really stand out haha. And I was wanting to see it because I'd never heard someone sound like that in real life (other than in situations where it's called for, like if you're in a class)

    But from what I've seen of this video and and the previous one... they sound like normal human beings. Which, I have to say, takes away some of the intimidation a little bit lol... I would've been a tiny bit intimidated before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis
    UGH... that refined, upscale, intellectual look... can I just have you please.

    Because I... wait... no no no, wait, what?

    (passes the 1:43 mark) Oh god, you have a husband too!?!? (looks toward heavens, shakes fist) God, you cruel, cruel being!!!! What... so you make the immaculate type, only to have all of them betrothed??? Is that it?? (falls upon knees, rends garments in twain and despairs)


    You like that kind of thing, don't you? That's why you make a tree of knowledge, and put it RIGHT in the middle of everything where everyone can see it... but then tell people not to eat from it. Well why tease them with a tree like that, only for them to find that it's married!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis
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  3. #23
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    I've always seen INTJs as kind of the "NF" of the NTs. I'm not sure why precisely, I guess I find that while I personally have emotions as well - being of a mammalian persuasion - I find that INTJs seem to me to be more driven and influenced by their emotions than most NTPs I know who rather use emotions as a 'perception' tool more often than a driver of action and one's perspectives.
    I have seen this too and thought it related to tertiary Fi though I've thought ENTJs to wear their harsh emotions on their sleeves more so whereas INTJs would tend to be less expressive about it. ETJs in general strike me this way. Things might be dressed up in logic but they strike me as often being influenced by strong emotions. It usually comes out as negative judgment of others. I think INTJs can do that too but maybe in more of a complaining, cynical/sarcastic or quietly butthurt kind of way.
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  4. #24
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I have seen this too and thought it related to tertiary Fi though I've thought ENTJs to wear their harsh emotions on their sleeves more so whereas INTJs would tend to be less expressive about it. ETJs in general strike me this way. Things might be dressed up in logic but they strike me as often being influenced by strong emotions. It usually comes out as negative judgment of others. I think INTJs can do that too but maybe in more of a complaining, cynical/sarcastic or quietly butthurt kind of way.
    true, in my experience though emotions are something I can switch on and off 99% of the time. It's rare that an emotion would influence my actions apart from some rare cases if people I'm close to are concerned. I think I'm more of a creature of moods and logic than an emotional creature. When describing INTJs I think a better way to put it would have been to say that they are - to me - the most driven by their emotions amongst NTs. But perhaps , as you mention, ENTJs could take that role too.

    Perhaps it's not so much the amount of emotion as the Ni-Fi loops. My INFJ wife sometimes have these Ni-Ti loops where she overthinks situations until her views become completely distorted with guesswork built on top of guesswork built on top guesswork to the point that her modelling of what other ppl might think in a given situation is just utterly wrong. She does that with me sometimes so I know for a fact that it's so beyond reality it might as well be fantasy.

    In some INTJs I've debated - again in my view - it seems to create biased views of the 'facts' where on some topics they seem unable to see the flaws in their original assumptions. So while the logic is correct it just doesn't correspond to reality.

    I see it in INTJ philosophers like Descartes as well, where he excels in areas like maths but often fails in his philosophical treaties - despite some powerful ideas (bases for scientific method, and the basic assumption of 'cogito ergo sum')- as his arguments if read carefully tend to contain huge amounts of baseless assumptions. So the logic is correct but the 'system' / 'vision' it's based upon seem flawed to me. Actually it reminds of of Marx's philosophy : just doesn't seem to apply to the human race.

    ps: entps only become potty trained at age 25, so it's not like we're perfect either
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  5. #25
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Perhaps it's not so much the amount of emotion as the Ni-Fi loops. My INFJ wife sometimes have these Ni-Ti loops where she overthinks situations until her views become completely distorted with guesswork built on top of guesswork built on top guesswork to the point that her modelling of what other ppl might think in a given situation is just utterly wrong. She does that with me sometimes so I know for a fact that it's so beyond reality it might as well be fantasy.

    In some INTJs I've debated - again in my view - it seems to create biased views of the 'facts' where on some topics they seem unable to see the flaws in their original assumptions. So while the logic is correct it just doesn't correspond to reality.

    I see it in INTJ philosophers like Descartes as well, where he excels in areas like maths but often fails in his philosophical treaties - despite some powerful ideas (bases for scientific method, and the basic assumption of 'cogito ergo sum')- as his arguments if read carefully tend to contain huge amounts of baseless assumptions. So the logic is correct but the 'system' / 'vision' it's based upon seem flawed to me. Actually it reminds of of Marx's philosophy : just doesn't seem to apply to the human race.

    ps: entps only become potty trained at age 25, so it's not like we're perfect either
    I have seen INFJs do that as well. The thing with the INTJ is understand that they are 1) as dominant perceivers, they often guessing and refining their ideas but come across as firmly decided because of Te and 2) logic is always secondary to the insight. The insight is king and there doesn't need to be a logical system as a Ti user requires. The key thing is not that the thinking is right, it's that the conclusion is. It's a big difference between Ti and Te. I see XNTPs as thinking this is wrong (or poor logic) when a better way to think about it is that it's different.

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  6. #26
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    true, in my experience though emotions are something I can switch on and off 99% of the time. It's rare that an emotion would influence my actions apart from some rare cases if people I'm close to are concerned. I think I'm more of a creature of moods and logic than an emotional creature. When describing INTJs I think a better way to put it would have been to say that they are - to me - the most driven by their emotions amongst NTs. But perhaps , as you mention, ENTJs could take that role too.
    Are you mixing up feelings (emotions) with the feeling function (subjective judgment)? I would agree that INTJs may be more influenced by subjective judgment in the form of personal values, priorities, sense of right/wrong. By contrast, I see emotions - those feelings we have in the moment - more as sensory inputs that get considered along with all the rest but are far from the driver's seat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Despotic Ocelot View Post
    She seems perfectly down to Earth and personable, and not what I was expecting from INTJ... which is some really distinctive, 'not quite like most humans' kind of aura haha.

    The reason I say that is because, not just from seeing what INTJs sound like on the internet, which definitely is wholly separate from the rest of humanity lol, but also... the speech used. Which is extremely and scrupulously punctilious, evidenced by every post you have ever made lol.

    It's just so abnormally, painstakingly rigorous to grammar, punctuation, spelling, the vocabulary used has more uncommon words, the general sound of their speech is very professorial... so I thought, man, if they sound like that in real life then they would really stand out haha. And I was wanting to see it because I'd never heard someone sound like that in real life (other than in situations where it's called for, like if you're in a class)

    But from what I've seen of this video and and the previous one... they sound like normal human beings. Which, I have to say, takes away some of the intimidation a little bit lol... I would've been a tiny bit intimidated before.
    Well, in many respects we are just normal human beings, like anyone else. But like everyone else, we have qualities that set us apart as well. Of course this will vary from individual to individual within a given type. I can be conventionally down-to-earth and personable, but it doesn't feel like "me". It feels as if I am taking on a role to accomplish what I want in a situation. For me I think part of the explanation might be that I spend much of my time, and do much of my talking and most of my writing, in professional situations. I am long used to speaking and writing that way, and it is second nature now to the degree that I probably speak that way nearly all the time, even in completely social situations. I don't know how distinctive it seems to others as I get little feedback IRL. It takes deliberate effort to switch to that "down-to-earth and personable" mode and it is not comfortable. With my closest friends and husband, I cross into a personal/intimate mode which somehow blends both: professional delivery but more personal topics. Perhaps this explains what you are seeing in my writing compared with other INTJs you are hearing and reading online.

    Quote Originally Posted by Despotic Ocelot View Post
    You like that kind of thing, don't you? That's why you make a tree of knowledge, and put it RIGHT in the middle of everything where everyone can see it... but then tell people not to eat from it. Well why tease them with a tree like that, only for them to find that it's married!?!?
    I thought you knew better than to believe such stories. (Are you sure you aren't keeping your eyes open for romantic opportunities?)
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  7. #27
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Are you mixing up feelings (emotions) with the feeling function (subjective judgment)? I would agree that INTJs may be more influenced by subjective judgment in the form of personal values, priorities, sense of right/wrong. By contrast, I see emotions - those feelings we have in the moment - more as sensory inputs that get considered along with all the rest but are far from the driver's seat.
    The way I look at it is Fi users tend to be more influenced by their own subjective feelings and Fe users more influenced by the objective feelings of others. That does give them the appearance of being more influenced by emotions regardless as to whether this is true. The Fe user is influenced by the crowd and Fi user by themselves.

    Well, in many respects we are just normal human beings, like anyone else. But like everyone else, we have qualities that set us apart as well. Of course this will vary from individual to individual within a given type. I can be conventionally down-to-earth and personable, but it doesn't feel like "me". It feels as if I am taking on a role to accomplish what I want in a situation. For me I think part of the explanation might be that I spend much of my time, and do much of my talking and most of my writing, in professional situations. I am long used to speaking and writing that way, and it is second nature now to the degree that I probably speak that way nearly all the time, even in completely social situations. I don't know how distinctive it seems to others as I get little feedback IRL. It takes deliberate effort to switch to that "down-to-earth and personable" mode and it is not comfortable.

    It's interesting. I'm not like that at all. I am much more comfortable with that down to earth and personable style. I tend to be more all business with people i dont kmow as well. Like you I do talk about and focus on work. I get annoyed with social situations where people are in a group and all joking with each other in shallow conversation. I never know what they are talking about and get bored. Its like I can only focus on one person at a time and the conversation feels superficial.

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  8. #28
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    The way I look at it is Fi users tend to be more influenced by their own subjective feelings and Fe users more influenced by the objective feelings of others. That does give them the appearance of being more influenced by emotions regardless as to whether this is true. The Fe user is influenced by the crowd and Fi user by themselves.
    That's just it, though: I don't think it really is true. I would say the Fe user is influenced by that crowd's subjective judgment - what others expect and how they will receive the Fe user's actions. The Fi user is influenced by internal subjective judgment - what he or she internally thinks is right and wrong. Emotions are at most symptoms, indicators.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post


    • This is how one INTJ gets whens she feels misunderstood. Many times she is using my Te (extroverted thinking) to figure out what to do when someone is struggling emotionally or what have you. Fe is something that does not come naturally, but it is not that she don't care.

    Learn, open your eyes. The problem doesnt always lie with whats directly starting you in the face. Nothing wrong with Te, but you do have to learn what to do. You have to learn the person, the situation. Ask questions, figure it out and do it in an inquisitive way. Validate your assumptions, slow down. They say Te is structure...you need a good solid set of info of others and the current situation or you have nothing to structure except yourself.

    This alone says you care and ALSO sets you up to structure and help. Its a double whammy.

  10. #30
    Marshmallow Heart thepink-cloakedninja's Avatar
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    I don't view INTJs as cold and heartless. I can view others through rose-colored glasses at times, but many of the INTJs on here seem like nice people. Perhaps more reserved, more constrained with compliments, and less likely to use smiley faces than others on here, but certainly not cold, and a couple on here have been good listeners (readers????) and quite open minded/willing to discuss differing viewpoints with me, without being like "gah you're so dumb for believing that like sakjldfskjldfskljljdfss."

    I don't know the specifics of the situations the girl in the video was faced with where she was called these terms, but I do suspect that it had more to do with others than her. If she's genuinely wanting to help people (and she seemed quite genuine in the video [she was acting shy and kind of uncomfortable as many do when self-disclosing]) then I suspect that that would come across to someone who is even remotely paying attention. Like, maybe she wouldn't express concern for the person by crying with him/her about their troubles, but wouldn't her doing things to help the person at least reveal loving motivations?

    Like, I would consider heartless actions to include things like saying you're going to there for someone, or calling a person weak because they're struggling with such and such, or talking behind their back behind about their problems. Over analyzing the person's situation and not being super wouldn't count as cold or heartless in my book.

    Really, I feel like she's being manipulated. Call the fire department!
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