I think this thread has been pretty awesome in a lot of ways. @OrangeAppled saidI think this thread has made inroads into doing just that. The first step to bridging a gap is to acknowledge that it exists. Then to discuss the conditions surrounding said gap so that erosion or earth movements [I'm speaking metaphorically here] don't wash it away or collapse it.The question then is - how is this gap bridged with an INFJ?
I love reading what INFPs, INTJs and INFJs each say about communication. This thread feels like a longhouse meeting to me with representatives from three different clans seated around the campfire. @highlander, I guess that makes you the Peace Chief.
@Southern Kross well-stated. I would agree.Perhaps the difference is that INFJs try to persuade the inner workings of people; access the more unconscious elements rather than the conscious. (Would the INFJs agree with that?)
Oooh.... @highlander that's why you need an INFJ on board with you.I think INTJs are very focused on influencing long term direction and outcomes. People are a necessary part of that but persuading them is not necessarily a super strong gift. It's more of a brute force approach. We don't say words for specific effect really.
@greenfairy said,then @PeaceBaby said,Yeah INTJ's try to affect people with Te instead of Fe, so they work on the Thinking consciousness of a person and INFJ's focus on the Feeling consciousness.Yes, I think that you are both accurate about this. I know for a fact that my real life INTJ friend really does target the Thinking consciousness of a person. He even told me that is why he likes to debate. He wants to make people think. He will ask them questions in the middle of a confrontation because he says that forces them out of their emotions into a state of reasoning. I, of course, congratulated his ingenuity but do not share his love of debating. However, I can read his mind Because, you know, a strong Ni is telepathic when in the presence of another strong Ni so we send unspoken messages across the room. [LOL...realize that I'm kidding, sort of.]To me, Thinkers address the surface, factual elements and Feelers read between the lines and address what is implied. An opinion, for example, has a surface/conscious side and a underlying/unconscious side: it has the part that is driven by factual information and the part that is driven by 'reactionary' information (instinct/emotion/inclination/bias etc). My point is that INFJs seem more interested in affecting underlying reaction rather than to affecting one's logical conclusions.
@ Yes! INFJ's and INTJ's are like martial arts. INFJs are like Tai Chi and Baguazhang, they work from the inside out! And INTJs are like Shaolin, Karate, Judo, etc., working from the outside in, but they are all based on the same energy principle [chi] just as both INFJs and INTJs are both based in Ni. May the force be with you, my fellow Jedi, and beware the dark side, least you loose an arm or something of that nature.The INTJ focuses on what has to change, and then on which elements specifically are going to be most efficacious at accomplishing the change; the INFJ sees the desired direction (since they share Ni with the INTJ) but then hope to inspire the change to come from within, rather than directing it from without
@highlander said,I agree with this. My INTJ friend is very diplomatic on a routine basis, even in a debate, he is diplomatic. I also find you, greybeard and Coriolis to all be diplomatic.I think we are capable of being far more diplomatic than this on a routine basis.
I've noticed this with my INTJ friend, as well. I will often caution him about saying certain things, privately, of course. I would never do that to him in front of people.What I don't do is to calculate and weigh my words with any kind of precision.
I want to know what the other person thinks. In a way, I can use that Ni/Se to gather all these different data points and thoughts from different people to help us as a group arrive at a direction that makes the most sense. It's using that synthesizing ability that Ni has and the Te orientation to make it real.
As a leader, I have realized that there is an awful lot of stuff that I don't know and that perspectives that won't come naturally to me. If I follow my own singular vision without asking for any advice or input from others, I miss important things. People have so many good ideas and input on every matter of thing. Extraverts tend to verbalize pretty well but tend to dominate conversations. I find that you have to draw those things out of introverts or they will never be heard. Part of it is situationally engaging them in a conversation with specific questions. Part of it is helping to cast a role of their being truly involved and vested in the outcomes. Sometimes you have to push. In either case, my approach is one of caring about people as individuals, focusing on outcomes of what needs to be accomplished, and then collaborating with them to achieve the results we want to get while supporting them individually.
I think that it's time to watch that INTJ video, too.
I want to say this about INFP/INFJ communications. First let me establish that in real life my inner circle is made up of a female INFP, a male INTJ, a male ISTP and a male ISTJ. I am also fairly close to a male ENTP and a female ENFJ, but I don't really consider them my inner circle any longer because we don't talk on a daily basis. In communication with my INFP friend I've come to view our talks as a ramble through the woods. When I set out to walk through the woods I never know what I'm going to encounter, especially if I don't walk through the same woods each time, but I can simply enjoy the experience of the walk and the things I discover along the way. When I first started hanging out with her, I wanted to find an excuse not to, because she drained me, but it was only because I had never been close to an FP before and really didn't know what to expect or how to interpret her behavior. The randomness left me exhausted and frustrated, but then one day I stopped at her printing shop on my way home and she was talking. Her husband was sitting at a table in the back of the shop. She was taking a long time to tell about an experience she had had with a cat. It was insignificant and not even out of the ordinary. I kept wondering why she was telling it and was waiting for the "point" to her recounting when all of a sudden her husband blurted out, "Get to the damned point already? Or do you even have one?"
Her face looked as if he had shot her. She retorted something back at him. And I suddenly I realized something for the first time, "Her experience is the point," I said, quietly. There was dead silence for a moment. She looked at me and said, "That's right." She had just wanted us to stumble upon something with her, to take a walk in the woods. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've been walking through the woods with her ever since. I think we will have a life-long friendship.
Haha...my point in telling this is that I understand that with FPs it's going to take a little longer and the journey is more important than the destination, the nuances take time. One never knows how long a ramble through the woods might take so I have to leave flexibility time in my schedule so that she doesn't feel like just another item to cross off the "to do" list.