User Tag List

First 2345614 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 161

  1. #31
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    However, it feels a little like INFP is better than INFJ talk, which doesn't really seem to be a way to encourage productive dialogue.
    Well, no - in many measurable ways, INFJ's are far more effective in the world. I don't see INFP's as superior (we are all simply different) but Fi is lensed in a way that seems continually misunderstood to me so my desire for clarity is triggered. The way I point out issues is mostly where differences and problems lie, rather than building alliance on what commonalities we share. It's the contrast that is useful to me.

    wrt my previous post, I think it is very hard for any P-type to appreciate the depth of J-type strategy, since P-types don't readily construct reality in that "if I do X, Y will happen" way. Likewise, to me it seems even harder for a J-type to be aware that P-types are not very strategic. That does not mean P-types aren't manipulative, but it does mean that P-type "strategy" typically doesn't go much farther than an in-the-moment manipulation. And since it's not well-thought-out, often causes trouble when those in the moment attempts to alter reality pile up.

    So, to communicate with an INFJ you must especially be aware of the strategy behind every interaction because of Ni, that future-oriented function. Every word carries nuance and a desired affect, sometimes building to a very long-term outcome. And, if you want to build good rapport in environments where interaction is necessary (rather than friendship where people just "click") an ignorance of this is counter-productive.

    eta: I should add what to do in these situations to foster a win-win. Sometimes a strategic vision is in your favor, but other times not and unfairly so. Maybe I'll put together a post on that.

    The comment about Ni and active listening is interesting. I am like @Ene. I am inconsistent with my listening skills on a moment by moment basis but when I really decide to listen, I am REALLY listening. Even when I am doing that, people would likely say that I'm not a great active listener because I don't do all those head nods and paraphrasing type of things to the extent that a really good active listener does. Nevertheless, I am paying extraordinary attention to what is being said. I do think Fi doms are supposed to be the best listeners.
    Ni-types seem to listen when something pings their Ni. From my singular perspective, it seems that Ni takes something from in-the-moment and prepares to build a conclusion on it, that Ni-doms can feel pieces of a puzzle sliding together and focus in laser-sharp at those times for a certain length of time. To me, it feels uncomfortable because I do not know what conclusion is potentially being built. All of a sudden, I will sense a Je-judgment coming on, and this can feel limiting and uncomfortable.

    Here's a quick example. Our new minister is almost certainly INTJ. His first awareness of me at church was fixing an IT problem, to which I was referred to as the IT Queen (and this phrase amused him). Now, I feel like all of our interactions revolve around IT issues, since that is measurably / objectively something I am now concluded to be "good" at. It does not seem to take into awareness of anything more, of who I am, or of other work I do. That's the kind of constriction I refer to.

    I never thought about INFJs as being strategic but it makes sense. They are like INTJs in this way. They are just strategic about different kinds of things.
    Yes. Every word, every choice is intentional to affect the realm of people. INTJ's seem particularly unaware of that, no offense.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #32
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    I won't attempt to answer for all INFJ kind, but as for me, its true, @PeaceBabyeverything is strategic. I always jokingly say that I am part Vulcan and part Betazeid. Like Mr. Spock when his mother asked him, "How do you feel?" I am sometimes stumped. I usually reply, "I don't know because I haven't had time to think about it yet." And like Deanna Troy, I usually can pick up on the feelings of others, whether they are sincere, telling the truth, etc. and in real life, I have the ability to put people at ease, to reaasure, encourage and inspire. So, an INFJ is a cognitive cross between those. So, yes, INFJ emotions are often kept under wraps. Perhaps, that can be viewed as shallow, but it is nesecary for us to function.
    Thanks for your reply, I like it and it was helpful. I feel like the word shallow has been latched onto as a negative personal quality, but I mean it literally, not pejoratively. INFJ's seem to sense a lot about others, but little about themselves at times, especially in that emotional realm.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  3. #33
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    And here we go!
    You should stick around, don't delete your account. You get to see things here you have no awareness of irl, there's a lot the forum can offer. I sincerely hope you stay.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #34
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Thanks for your reply, I like it and it was helpful. I feel like the word shallow has been latched onto as a negative personal quality, but I mean it literally, not pejoratively. INFJ's seem to sense a lot about others, but little about themselves at times, especially in that emotional realm.

    Thank you for clarifying. I see what you're saying. True, very true. It's hard for me, at times, to know how I feel, and it takes a while to sort through it. Often, I have to weigh all of the variables to understand how I feel. My INFP friend always knows how she feels about something or someone but I have to sit and think about it for a while before I know; that ability is a quality I admire in her.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14
    Likes LovelySweet liked this post

  5. #35
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    MBTI
    iNfj
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,042

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Ni-types seem to me to listen when something pings their Ni. From my singular perspective, it seems that Ni takes something from in-the-moment and prepares to build a conclusion on it, that Ni-doms can feel pieces of a puzzle sliding together and focus in laser-sharp at those times for a certain length of time. To me, it feels uncomfortable because I do not know what conclusion is potentially being built. All of a sudden, I will sense a Je-judgment coming on, and this can feel limiting and uncomfortable.

    Here's a quick example. Our new minister is almost certainly INTJ. His first awareness of me at church was fixing an IT problem, to which I was referred to as the IT Queen (and this phrase amused him). Now, I feel like all of our interactions revolve around IT issues, since that is measurably / objectively something I am now concluded to be "good" at. It does not seem to take into awareness of anything more, of who I am, or of other work I do. That's the kind of constriction I refer to.



    Yes. Everything word, every choice is intentional to affect the realm of people. INTJ's seem particularly unaware of that, no offense.
    That's a very good description of Ni in my opinion and describes how I pay attention to things. Either if it seems like another piece in my continually evolving puzzle or something unusual that needs to be connected somehow. Se is involved, of course. Se gives fun and interesting things to our consciousness, and then Ni abstracts it into something meaningful. We pay conscious attention to it if it fits into a puzzle or really doesn't fit.

    I hadn't realized how that could feel restrictive, like you are an electron and we're trying to collapse your wave function. I don't know what can be done about it, since we don't always know what conclusion we're coming to either, but we could try to be less judgmental and more free-flowing.

    So if you don't think of cause and effect much, how do you plan and execute goals?

  6. #36
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,899

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Yes. Every word, every choice is intentional to affect the realm of people. INTJ's seem particularly unaware of that, no offense.
    That's because it is completely foreign to us.

    INFJs - is this true? I'm curious.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  7. #37
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,106

    Default

    Generally, yes, I would say that most conversations have an intent of information exchange, request for/offer of help or of understanding the why part of people's interactions. It's actually hard to remember that it doesn't work that way with a lot of other people, or not to see certain behaviours/lack of action/silence/words as being intentional and with pointed meaning, because with us, they often would be. I think there is a lot of trying to extrapolate what to expect from other people in the future, as well as process the implications of the previous interchange on the current one. Prediction and thinking if this is true here, then this is what is most likely to happen in the future, judging from a wide sample of people, this person's past behaviour, general principles I've found to be true (and whatever other things go into the mix) is a big part of what goes on when I interact with people. That's part of why larger groups of people are harder to deal with, as there are more people at a time to juggle and factor in and account for their preferences/people they like and dislike/absorb information being given/figure out an appropriate interaction or reaction to and so on.

  8. #38
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    For me what feels more personal is what lies under that, why I am the way I am (Ni=why), so I project that onto other people. I think that to really get at the heart of someone is to figure out why they are the way they are, and to feel listened to in a personal way I want someone to pay attention to why I am the way I am- if I'm upset why, and if I'm happy why, and sometimes to help me figure it out if I don't already know. This may be important to do with INFJ's. But perhaps we need to realize that Fi users may value the "what" more than the "why" because it feels more personal to them, however they happen to be and feel. Does that sound accurate, @OrangeAppled?
    That's interesting because I would consider INFPs "why" people as well. Either it's a different kind of "why" or I'm missing something.

    Can you give an example of situation where you doing this either for yourself or others? What was your basic thought process was?

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I hadn't realized how that could feel restrictive, like you are an electron and we're trying to collapse your wave function. I don't know what can be done about it, since we don't always know what conclusion we're coming to either, but we could try to be less judgmental and more free-flowing.
    No, I don't think being more fluid and open would help - it would be counter-intuitive. Ni gives you a leaping off point which allows a head start on processing information (compared with Pe). As long as it's done with some awareness and some testing and adjusting, this is a positive thing; it gives more momentum to the processing of information. That momentum is very foreign to me and difficult to generate.

    So if you don't think of cause and effect much, how do you plan and execute goals?
    Goals?

    No seriously, we have goals, it's just harder to actuate them. "Going with the flow", as you said earlier, also means following our instincts and hoping the answers come to us as we go along.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    That's because it is completely foreign to us.
    Really? INTJs are less interested in interpersonal dynamics, but you guys are often focussed on affecting people. Practically every conversation I have with my good INTJ friend is him trying to persuade me of something. It's not always a pushy, negative thing, it might be just about guiding me to a solution, and he can listen (with a degree of willingness to be persuaded) too, but it is generally very much about moving me towards a certain direction.

    Perhaps the difference is that INFJs try to persuade the inner workings of people; access the more unconscious elements rather than the conscious. (Would the INFJs agree with that?)
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  9. #39
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    That's because it is completely foreign to us.

    INFJs - is this true? I'm curious.

    I think @fidelia really did a great job of explaining it; yes, my every word is meant to effect the realm of people.

    Just a thought, but this brings to mind a notion. The trouble comes when an INFJ is unbalanced, immature or emotionally/mentally unstable, then we use words like a double edge sword, well-placed, premeditated and slicing to the core of a person's being with every swing. On the flip side, a well-balanced INFJ could speak the right word at the right moment and bring positive change into a person's life.

    I think that, when you get right down to it, it's why we are referred to, along with INTJs, as system-builders, because thats exactly what is happening. We are building people-focused systems. When my Ni is sliding those pieces into place, it's really trying to see where things fit into the grand scheme of things and with people, it's me subconsciously trying to form a picture of the whole person, kind of like a mental map or a character sketch.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  10. #40
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,899

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Really? INTJs are less interested in interpersonal dynamics, but you guys are often focussed on affecting people. Practically every conversation I have with my good INTJ friend is him trying to persuade me of something. It's not always a pushy, negative thing, it might be just about guiding me to a solution, and he can listen (with a degree of willingness to be persuaded) too, but it is generally very much about moving me towards a certain direction.
    I think INTJs are very focused on influencing long term direction and outcomes. People are a necessary part of that but persuading them is not necessarily a super strong gift. It's more of a brute force approach. We don't say words for specific effect really.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

Similar Threads

  1. Video: INTP Communication Style
    By highlander in forum Typology Videos and RSS Feeds
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-01-2015, 09:01 AM
  2. Video: ENTJ Communication Style
    By highlander in forum Typology Videos and RSS Feeds
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-18-2014, 04:20 AM
  3. Video: INTJ Communication Style
    By highlander in forum Typology Videos and RSS Feeds
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-25-2014, 10:41 AM
  4. Video: ENFJ Communication Style
    By highlander in forum Typology Videos and RSS Feeds
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-24-2014, 09:09 PM
  5. Video: ENFP Communication Style
    By highlander in forum Typology Videos and RSS Feeds
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-11-2014, 10:45 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO