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  1. #11
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Introverted Feeling is rational reasoning, after all.
    Exactly. It is important to remember that in communications with an INFJ, they are nearly always strategic. Output is strategically delivered and what evolves (in order to manage output) everything coming "in" is desired in a specific format too. Ergo, their protocols for interaction. You must ascribe to these protocols in order to be "heard". I've talked about this need for control before in other posts so will not expand here.

    Everything "other" people do and say is questioned for motive, yet what goes under-evaluated is an honest, deep evaluation of their own inner motives. For example, I will be ascribed a certain motivation in this thread by my mere presence, not really by what I am saying. Then, my words will be twisted pretzel-like to fit the desired conclusion as to why I am here saying what I am saying.

    It's just the way it is. The INFJ level of emotional self-examination can be surprising shallow.

    So, you have to decide this: do you want to fit into what the average-health-level INFJ sees you as? Is it that important to you? Until they have gained some rational, critical emotional self-evaluation skills, interaction will primarily be on their singular terms, not collaboratively.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
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  2. #12
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I don't think Fi types are more focused on emotions than Fe types - just in a different way. I find Fe types use emotional expression far more for social bonding, which is not something IxFPs do much at all. To me, it just looks like goo goo ga ga noises, and I'm not really sure the point of it.
    Yup.

    When I express emotion it's almost never solely because I want to for my own sake, there is almost always a reason/purpose behind it. Granted, that is natural for me and it just happens as it is, but it's for the external world. But, I can assure you though there is lots of purpose to it. It's not uncommon for that purpose to be lost on the user though (more common for xNFJ's), since it's usually not needed as a conscious thought.
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  3. #13
    an abyss of Nothingness Arctic Hysteria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    INFPs in particular are good at clarifying other people's emotions for them, as many others are crappy at that & INFPs practice it a lot; we bridge the emotion with its finer meaning. This is very much giving it a "classification" & "order" with the intellect. Introverted Feeling is rational reasoning, after all. It may seem we just get it automatically because we're good at knowing what emotions mean & probably better listeners too.
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  4. #14
    I want my account deleted
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    Oh boy. Waiting to see how this thread develops from here ... the usual typec "INFJ thread gone ugly" elements are now settled into place and waiting to be further developed into explicitness.

  5. #15
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I don't think Fi types are more focused on emotions than Fe types - just in a different way. I find Fe types use emotional expression far more for social bonding, which is not something IxFPs do much at all. To me, it just looks like goo goo ga ga noises, and I'm not really sure the point of it.

    INFPs in particular are good at clarifying other people's emotions for them, as many others are crappy at that & INFPs practice it a lot; we bridge the emotion with its finer meaning. This is very much giving it a "classification" & "order" with the intellect. Introverted Feeling is rational reasoning, after all. It may seem we just get it automatically because we're good at knowing what emotions mean & probably better listeners too. Active-listening involves a lot of repeating back to someone in different phrasing and then letting them correct that, until greater & greater clarity is achieved. This is not a noted strength of Ni-doms, no, although INFJs are often erroneously called "good listeners".

    The other difference is we don't give dictate application or push for closure. We're more likely to "guide" someone towards it, and it's generally because we know half the battle is understanding how you really feel/believe & what you really need/want to begin with. The idea is to create consistency with all of this, which often resolves any negative emotion. After that, options narrow considerably, and the ability to take action is restored since emotional obstacles are cleared.
    Just out of curiosity, do you feel like this post is an example of you doing this (bolded) with greenfairy's post? It seems more like a reactive response to her post- to reciprocate some kind of perceived slight- instead of trying to clarify whether or not you understood it correctly. It seems to me like what I'm hearing is a reactive/defensive "here's why INFPs are actually the ones who are superior" reaction, as if it's in response to someone else trying to lay claim to being superior first- and what I don't see is you checking to see if that's what greenfairy meant in the first place. Am I mistaken?

    I do agree INFPs have a lot of strengths that INFJs don't have, just like every type has strengths that others don't have. The topic of the thread though is about how to get through to an INFJ. So what exactly incited the above post? (Was it greenfairy's post, or OA's interpretation of greenfairy's post- and can't we maybe get into the habit of taking quotes over to new threads if it's going to cause this kind of derail?) I'm frustrated that INFJs can't even have a conversation amongst themselves about their own functions and/or experience without it quickly devolving into this FJ/FP bullshit. (This is beside the point that I don't understand why people who have established INFJs are not worth the effort would even bother clicking on the link and reading the thread? I don't even need to understand it, really, my only goal here is to see if there's some way to stop this from taking over every single conversation about INFJs.)

    I'm not trying to be offensive or pick a fight, but why does this happen? More importantly, what needs to happen in order for this kind of thing to stop interrupting productive conversation? (This should probably be it's own thread, really.)
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  6. #16
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    I won't attempt to answer for all INFJ kind, but as for me, its true, @PeaceBabyeverything is strategic. I always jokingly say that I am part Vulcan and part Betazeid. Like Mr. Spock when his mother asked him, "How do you feel?" I am sometimes stumped. I usually reply, "I don't know because I haven't had time to think about it yet." And like Deanna Troy, I usually can pick up on the feelings of others, whether they are sincere, telling the truth, etc. and in real life, I have the ability to put people at ease, to reaasure, encourage and inspire. So, an INFJ is a cognitive cross between those. So, yes, INFJ emotions are often kept under wraps. Perhaps, that can be viewed as shallow, but it is nesecary for us to function.

    @OrangeAppled is right. INFJ listening skills may be exaggerated in one sense. Ni does have selective listening, but when I do listen, I REALLY listen. If someone comes to me, truly needing someone to listen, I will drop everything and listen with an unprejudiced and nonjudgmental ear. I can't answer for all INFJs but I'm very non-judging and people tell me that I put them at ease.

    However, on a regular day to day basis, I'm NOT such a good listener. I am very close to an ISTJ in real life who often rambles on and on about what seems like obvious stuff to me. I zone out unintentionally. I respect and care for this person deeply but to listen to all the rambling causes cognitive exhaustion because if I am intterupted before Ni is through formulating, I loose my cognitive grip on an intangible realization that may have been crucial. When someone is talking and it's not a crisis situation, just run of the mill conversation, I'm often guilty of shuffling through the sand to find the treasure. I confess that sometimes, often actually, incoming verbage registers as irrelevant and immediately gets filed away for future access (in a way im listening even when im not because Ni lets everything in where it may be retreived at a later date causing me to know things that I didn't know I knew.)That doesn't mean that I don't care, only that I need time to process what you've said. It may have far more to do with Ni and Ti than with Fe. Basically, I really suck at small talk. I suck at making it and at listening to it.

    As for inner motives, I can't answer for anyone but myself. I always question my motive. If it's not for a win-win outcome, I don't engage. This thread for example, I really want to provide an honest, not biased, not preconceived, look into how to best communicate with an INFJ, but since the only one I know is me, I have no external standard to measure by. I actually thought I was INTJ for awhile, but Mike from NF Geeks and another practitioner of MBTI both felt I was likely INFJ.

    For the record, in real life one of my inner circle is an INFP and we have very little trouble communicating. She does occasionally ask to see the "real me" but There are parts of me that I simply cannot share, because I have no means nor words for doing so. She says I am hidden but it's not intentional.

    It did take me a while to learn to communicate with her, and yes, we do see many things differently but that makes neither of us less or more than the other. We are a good team when all is said and done, like yin and yang.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14
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  7. #17
    I want my account deleted
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    And here we go!

  8. #18
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werebudgie View Post
    And here we go!
    Dude, you are only perpetuating things. If you have nothing constructive to say, then say nothing.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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  9. #19
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I don't think Fi types are more focused on emotions than Fe types - just in a different way. I find Fe types use emotional expression far more for social bonding, which is not something IxFPs do much at all. To me, it just looks like goo goo ga ga noises, and I'm not really sure the point of it.

    INFPs in particular are good at clarifying other people's emotions for them, as many others are crappy at that & INFPs practice it a lot; we bridge the emotion with its finer meaning. This is very much giving it a "classification" & "order" with the intellect. Introverted Feeling is rational reasoning, after all. It may seem we just get it automatically because we're good at knowing what emotions mean & probably better listeners too. Active-listening involves a lot of repeating back to someone in different phrasing and then letting them correct that, until greater & greater clarity is achieved. This is not a noted strength of Ni-doms, no, although INFJs are often erroneously called "good listeners".

    The other difference is we don't give dictate application or push for closure. We're more likely to "guide" someone towards it, and it's generally because we know half the battle is understanding how you really feel/believe & what you really need/want to begin with. The idea is to create consistency with all of this, which often resolves any negative emotion. After that, options narrow considerably, and the ability to take action is restored since emotional obstacles are cleared.
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Exactly. It is important to remember that in communications with an INFJ, they are nearly always strategic. Output is strategically delivered and what evolves (in order to manage output) everything coming "in" is desired in a specific format too. Ergo, their protocols for interaction. You must ascribe to these protocols in order to be "heard". I've talked about this need for control before in other posts so will not expand here.

    Everything "other" people do and say is questioned for motive, yet what goes under-evaluated is an honest, deep evaluation of their own inner motives. For example, I will be ascribed a certain motivation in this thread by my mere presence, not really by what I am saying. Then, my words will be twisted pretzel-like to fit the desired conclusion as to why I am here saying what I am saying.

    It's just the way it is. The INFJ level of emotional self-examination can be surprising shallow.

    So, you have to decide this: do you want to fit into what the average-health-level INFJ sees you as? Is it that important to you? Until they have gained some rational, critical emotional self-evaluation skills, interaction will primarily be on their singular terms, not collaboratively.
    I like the content points you two are bringing up a lot. However, it feels a little like INFP is better than INFJ talk, which doesn't really seem to be a way to encourage productive dialogue.

    The comment about Ni and active listening is interesting. I am like @Ene. I am inconsistent with my listening skills on a moment by moment basis but when I really decide to listen, I am REALLY listening. Even when I am doing that, people would likely say that I'm not a great active listener because I don't do all those head nods and paraphrasing type of things to the extent that a really good active listener does. Nevertheless, I am paying extraordinary attention to what is being said. I do think Fi doms are supposed to be the best listeners.

    I never thought about INFJs as being strategic but it makes sense. They are like INTJs in this way. They are just strategic about different kinds of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    8. Realize that just because you may "feel" connected to me doesn't mean that I want to spend my every waking moment with you, sleep with you or marry you.
    Can you elaborate on this a little? What is it that you experience there?

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  10. #20
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ene
    8. Realize that just because you may "feel" connected to me doesn't mean that I want to spend my every waking moment with you, sleep with you or marry you.
    @highlander I would LOVE to! Haha. As some of you know, I am an author. I often get invited to visit libraries, colleges, festivals, etc., to do readings and book talks. I also perform from time to time with my guitar. Afterwards, people will come up and talk to me. I'll sign books for them, take photos with their kids, etc., Sometimes, however, there will be someone in the crowd who feels so connected to me and "destined" to know me better. And the next thing I know somebody is stalking me, insisting that fate meant us to be together or something along those lines. I know it sounds unreal, but it has happened to me more than once. I'm just a lowly unknown writer. I can't even begin to imagine how it is for celebrities.

    I've received all sorts of invitations from people who feel connected to me. Just this summer some guy showed up at my martial arts school, wanting to hang out until my classes were over so he could share his music with me, but it wasn't just music he had in mind. I had to get rude.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

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