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  1. #11
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    He's an ENFP (or possibly an ESFJ as I didn't watch the entire video but I definitely lean ENFP here.) He's in no way an INFP.
    I think he's an FP, but seems pretty obviously extroverted.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    @OrangeAppled,

    I haven't researched deeply, but of what I have read about Garfield, much of it suggests INFP-like characteristics - "sincere", "soulful", "sensitive", explaining how his dad always romanticized the movies and can sort of live that vicariously through him. He is complimented for his depth and nuance of emotion, and he speaks to feeling concern, fascination, and idealism in regards to starting a family. He speaks of how being bullied as a child allowed him to better portray a victimized character and he talks about how falling in love in character is a joyful experience. Again, this is only what I have read, but it is very much content filled with idealism, impression, reflection, how he feels, how he experiences other people and situations. Within the video itself, he delves deeply into that one subject that he is passionate about, and describes his feelings and the ethical implications.

    It all seems very much F-laden content, with Ne-like content really only tying things together. He seems warm and hesitantly open, but certainly that is not impossible from an INFP, particularly considering that he is an actor by trade and is "performing" in a way for the interview. Those are the reasons I did not consider questioning INFP for him - it seems like a very reasonable fit. Whereas many agreed that Robin Williams was a good Ne dominant example - so much more initiating, engaging, idea-focused. Still a beautiful and soulful person but he seemed to communicate his genuineness through the "zest" and yearning he put into his characters. Whereas Garfield seems to imbue vulnerability and depth instead. Though perhaps that could also be an Enneagram difference.

    I am not completely sold on the matter and am just brainstorming, so please do not take this as a debate - just some thoughts to add. I would be interested to hear if you have counterexamples and a different perspective.
    That could be any Feeling type. I don't think he's "hesitantly open". I think he's very effusive and animated. He definitely comes across as initiating and engaging to me. I don't say he is not INFP because he is unlikable - rather, I think he has the performing charm of an ENFP.

    The video notes he is "championing" - that is Fi parenting through Ne!!! That's the ENFP's use of Ne!

    Of course, the video claims Fe values are universal and Fi values are about what an individual relates to - when it's almost the opposite (the authors of the video don't know what they're talking about there). Fi-dom are fantastic listeners, who use their whole mind to absorb what others are saying, to get at their psychology.

    Instead, what Garfield displays, is the Ne tendency to be concerned with matters which reflect himself. That's Ne, not Fi!

    The weak point in the emotional life of the extraverted intuitive is his vanity. His enthusiasm is usually only aroused by something in which he himself can play an important part. He is thrilled by other people only when they have some value for his personal life, or, more especially, when they appreciate something in him.

    They note how he talks without noticing how others are reacting....which sounds just like this Ne description:
    Here, also, there will be found great liveliness and flexibility in the feelings, which are very individual in their mode of expression. Many clever people belong to this type, and the majority of artists. There is a lively expression of feeling, but it does not last long, the intuitive person being more concerned with expressing himself, and making a strong momentary impression on others, than with the formation of a lasting relationship. To this type, also, belong those people who carry on entire conversations without paying the slightest attention to the replies or remarks of the other person.


    Robin Williams was an addict and also a performer. He seemed very different in interviews where he was not performing - more melancholy, subdued, and sensitive.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe
    Likes Starry, Chanaynay liked this post

  2. #12
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Of course, the video claims Fe values are universal and Fi values are about what an individual relates to - when it's almost the opposite
    *Confused*

    Is it the relates to part?
    .

  3. #13
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Disclaimer I haven't watched the video but watched the original interview ages ago, when it came out (as a film fan) and remember it. I'm short on internet data this month.

    I kinda agree with you @skylights. You being a bit of an ambivert probably puts you in a good position to argue for the case that INFPs are not necessarily that contained. I'm not ambiverted, but certainly show (in fits and starts) an exuberance when I get onto a subject that engages me. I'm actually pretty talkative and expressive when I get going; enough so that I could potentially convince a stranger I'm an extrovert.

    I identify with Andrew Garfield in some ways. He has this nervous energy, a passionate heart, and a desire to communicate but seems restricted by his shyness. At the same time he is very private and prefers to keep to himself. I always thought him an INFP up until the last year or so where the nervousness seemed to dissipate and he appeared more comfortable in the spotlight, which made him seem more ENFP. However, I'm not convinced which he is one. I think he may be an ambivert so it will be difficult to know which way he leans. He could well be a Social dom too which adds a sort of extrovert spin on the usually more reticent INFP (speaking for myself anyway). It would also address some of the things you quoted @OrangeAppled, as it adds a bent for causes and frequent ranting about some issue or another (again, speaking from personal experience ). Is it also true of you, Skylights?

    And I was thinking, OA, about what you said on Fi being universal not Fe. I think there is an argument that both are, albeit in different ways. The way the opposing functions interact (ie. Fe-Ti and Fi-Te) is to move from the particular to the universal or vice versa. I like to say that FJs lean towards people and FPs lean back. FJs start with the overview (eg. norms, standards, common patterns of human behaviour) and move towards the individual, applying those concepts and using them as a filtering system. FPs start with the individual (eg. specifics, quirks, characteristics) and then steps back to filter that information through wider concepts of human behaviour. My theory is that this is partly why FJs come across more warmly in general - people seem to be conscious of that figurative movement towards people.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #14
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    One of the things I neglected to mention the other night regarding that opening and the "supposed difference between Fe & Fi" as it pertains to "social appropriateness" and asking if it was okay to sit cross-legged...

    I mean, it's stupid really. I've been talking quite a lot about critical thinking lately and someone clearly wasn't making use of it during the creation of this video.

    Instead of Fe & Fi... I'm thinking male & female gender roles were at play here as social science supports that females (of all types/backgrounds) are more concerned with "social appropriateness" in general. Likewise, why would Garfield ask for permission to sit cross-legged when the interview was already underway and Mulligan was already sitting in that position? Nevertheless, (as was mentioned previously in both threads) I feel Garfield was demonstrating a concern for appropriateness when he basically said "I'm going to sit like this because Mulligan is..." or, in other words, "I'm assuming this is okay."

    stupid.
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  5. #15
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I don't think he's "hesitantly open". I think he's very effusive and animated. He definitely comes across as initiating and engaging to me.
    That's interesting to me, because my impression was very much of engagement but not so much initiation.

    The video notes he is "championing" - that is Fi parenting through Ne!!! That's the ENFP's use of Ne!
    I'm not sure that's really accurate - All Fi users are going to use Fi to defend and prescribe, because it deals with values and ethics, but simply standing up for a cause does not make him an ENFP. He is not specifically guiding another person, but rather describing his ideals and views. I am surprised that disconnecting with the immediate environment is only attributed to ENFPs - that seems like an NFP trait in general, even a trait that extends to all Ns, though it is mediated by Fe in NFJs.

    I do think you are very accurate that Fi references universal values, though I agree with SK that it is simply getting at universals from a different direction than Fe. Clearly he is tapping into a universal right to be an individual and be unique and respected. That seems much more Fi to me than Ne - I barely see Ne content at all from him in this, really. Ne is patterns, reaching across, blazing through subjects, looping everything into the greatest context possible. He's not really talking much about any of that, is he? He's really more zooming in on an issue and then exploring that single issue and pulling it into a universal context. To me that seems more like INFP using Ne to help demonstrate and apply a Fi value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I kinda agree with you @skylights. You being a bit of an ambivert probably puts you in a good position to argue for the case that INFPs are not necessarily that contained. I'm not ambiverted, but certainly show (in fits and starts) an exuberance when I get onto a subject that engages me. I'm actually pretty talkative and expressive when I get going; enough so that I could potentially convince a stranger I'm an extrovert.
    That's how I am, too. Fits and starts. And for me it really, really depends on how comfortable I feel with the people and about the subject. If you get me on a subject I care about, then I can voice something very strongly. But otherwise I tend to be quieter - and I am more responsive than initiating, always. I avoided using myself as an example because I'm sure many people still identify me with ENFP, but maybe it's a good point that I feel like I'm very near the dividing line between the types, and from where I'm looking I don't see it hard to group Garfield into the introvert category.

    However, I'm not convinced which he is one. I think he may be an ambivert so it will be difficult to know which way he leans. He could well be a Social dom too which adds a sort of extrovert spin on the usually more reticent INFP (speaking for myself anyway). It would also address some of the things you quoted @OrangeAppled, as it adds a bent for causes and frequent ranting about some issue or another (again, speaking from personal experience ). Is it also true of you, Skylights?
    Very much, yes, lol. I think what ends up happening sometimes is that Social and Ne kind of build on each other, "amplifying" the Fi value quickly into a universal with application, so to speak. I think this is very much like what OA was referring to in terms of championing - do you experience that, too?

    I still maintain that I get so, so much more Fi out of him than Ne, though. I have a cousin very close to my age (mid-20s) who is an ENFP, and she is so much the "champion", but her content is not F content. She occasionally will delve into feelings and impressions and so on, but mostly she is a broad skimmer, as Ne doms are: she glides from subject to subject, readily linking her business ideas to the city she lives in to our cities in our home to her experiences here and how we all get along together. She clearly has complex and developed ideas, and also very strong values, but she tends to manifest those values as she lives, not as a forerunning focus that she has to stop constantly to process, as I do. Rather, she applies "parental" Fi by offering support, by encouraging people into new contexts, by inviting them along and including them, by sharing her ideas with them and asking their ideas, by building on their ideas and affirming their direction, by standing up for others and by soothing wounds when she sees hurt, by drawing everyone back into the big context. I suppose that could also be an Enneagram or simply personal difference, but it is striking when I think about the possibility of Garfield being a Ne dom - where is the N?

    I could easily see Garfield as so/sx... maybe 4w3, 6w7. An ambiverted Enneatype and an extraverted stacking, to speak in relative terms. It is interesting to me that he clearly pops in and out of other-awareness, which I think is what makes me see hesitation and perhaps introversion out of him. An ENFP might be oblivious to Fe cuing and the way others are immediately responding, certainly, but it is rare to see extraverts withdraw so quickly like Garfield does when they have an engaging audience. Even Garfield's body language to me seems somewhat withdrawn, pulled inwards. I know that personally, I feel a push-pull in terms of other-awareness - I know that I should be aware (thanks, heavy Social instinct superego), but it is very draining to focus on people and try to be interpersonally aware. So, like Garfield and the couch, sometimes I will wind up with a halfway gesture between hey I want to acknowledge you guys but I'm going to do my own thing anyway. Where I think with ENFPs it's often a more congenial, inclusive, hey I'm going to do my own thing now and everyone else can do their own thing too! Fi as good parent: Fi is somewhat authoritative, setting boundaries, keeping everyone happy and safe and rewarded for good behavior. Fi is not really authoritative in INFPs, it is like the little protagonist who is on the hero cycle of growth, transformation, and reconciliation. At least, that is my perspective given my experience and my understanding.

    Regardless of which type fits him better, he clearly falls close to the introvert-extravert boundary. He's an interesting case.

  6. #16
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I think he's an FP, but seems pretty obviously extroverted.



    That could be any Feeling type. I don't think he's "hesitantly open". I think he's very effusive and animated. He definitely comes across as initiating and engaging to me. I don't say he is not INFP because he is unlikable - rather, I think he has the performing charm of an ENFP.

    The video notes he is "championing" - that is Fi parenting through Ne!!! That's the ENFP's use of Ne!

    Of course, the video claims Fe values are universal and Fi values are about what an individual relates to - when it's almost the opposite (the authors of the video don't know what they're talking about there). Fi-dom are fantastic listeners, who use their whole mind to absorb what others are saying, to get at their psychology.

    Instead, what Garfield displays, is the Ne tendency to be concerned with matters which reflect himself. That's Ne, not Fi!

    The weak point in the emotional life of the extraverted intuitive is his vanity. His enthusiasm is usually only aroused by something in which he himself can play an important part. He is thrilled by other people only when they have some value for his personal life, or, more especially, when they appreciate something in him.

    They note how he talks without noticing how others are reacting....which sounds just like this Ne description:
    Here, also, there will be found great liveliness and flexibility in the feelings, which are very individual in their mode of expression. Many clever people belong to this type, and the majority of artists. There is a lively expression of feeling, but it does not last long, the intuitive person being more concerned with expressing himself, and making a strong momentary impression on others, than with the formation of a lasting relationship. To this type, also, belong those people who carry on entire conversations without paying the slightest attention to the replies or remarks of the other person.


    Robin Williams was an addict and also a performer. He seemed very different in interviews where he was not performing - more melancholy, subdued, and sensitive.
    I completely agree; he's way too consistently energetic and animated to be an INFP. And of course CelebrityTypes has him listed as an INFP on their site; they're so horrible at typing

  7. #17
    Senior Member reckful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulabelle View Post
    I completely agree; he's way too consistently energetic and animated to be an INFP. And of course CelebrityTypes has him listed as an INFP on their site; they're so horrible at typing
    Jung himself said he thought more people were essentially in the middle on E/I than were significantly extraverted or introverted. And I'd say his percentages were off (not to mention quite a bit of his E/I characterization), but there's a pretty general consensus today that E/I falls along a spectrum and lots of people aren't that far from the middle.

    Around half of people are considered MBTI introverts, and many of them are relatively mild introverts — and mild introverts are nothing like quiet little mice who just don't have it in them to be "energetic" or "animated." And yes, that applies to mildly-introverted INFPs as well as the mildly-introverted versions of the other types.

    In fact — are you hanging onto your seat? — a person can actually be a strong introvert and be very energetically passionate and animated under the right circumstances. I'm a strong introvert (for example), and anybody who's ever gotten me going on a pet subject knows I don't suffer from a generalized lack of "energy" or "animation." If you're never animated, maybe you just don't get enough sleep.

    Lots of introverts are actors, too. And if you think an introverted actor (and especially a mild introvert) who's doing an interview — where he's expected to be, you know, "on" and engaging — and who's talking about things he feels strongly about, couldn't possibly be "energetic and animated," I'd say you've got an exaggerated/extreme view of what introversion involves.

    Also, as a final complicating factor, the Big Five dimension (neuroticism) that doesn't have a corresponding MBTI dimension can have a significant impact on whether someone tends to come across as more "animated" or calm in conversation, regardless of whether they're extraverted or introverted. And introverts are actually somewhat more likely to be above-average in neuroticism than extraverts, and some studies have indicated that artists (of various kinds) also tend to be above-average in neuroticism.

    By the way, I'm not familiar enough with Garfield to have any kind of strong view on whether he's E or I — or NFP, for that matter, although I'd note that that's a very common actor type. I'm just saying that the fact that he tends to be "energetic and animated" in interviews is no reason to say he couldn't be an INFP — and especially a mildly introverted INFP. A quick Google seems to indicate that he's most often typed as an introvert, and that he considers himself an introvert.

    Here's a bit from People Magazine | Andrew Garfield protected as child

    Andrew needed special care when he was growing up.

    "I didn’t act a lot when I was a teenager, I started around 16. But it was more at school than in the theater. Initially I was very shy and sensitive. In a certain way I’ve always needed to be protected, because I was slim and the youngest in my family," he explained to leiweb.it. "Then I started to want to protect the others, especially the weak or the introverted people, like I was."

  8. #18
    Senior Member lulabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reckful View Post
    Jung himself said he thought more people were essentially in the middle on E/I than were significantly extraverted or introverted. And I'd say his percentages were off (not to mention quite a bit of his E/I characterization), but there's a pretty general consensus today that E/I falls along a spectrum and lots of people aren't that far from the middle.

    Around half of people are considered MBTI introverts, and many of them are relatively mild introverts — and mild introverts are nothing like quiet little mice who just don't have it in them to be "energetic" or "animated." And yes, that applies to mildly-introverted INFPs as well as the mildly-introverted versions of the other types.

    In fact — are you hanging onto your seat? — a person can actually be a strong introvert and be very energetically passionate and animated under the right circumstances. I'm a strong introvert (for example), and anybody who's ever gotten me going on a pet subject knows I don't suffer from a generalized lack of "energy" or "animation." If you're never animated, maybe you just don't get enough sleep.

    Lots of introverts are actors, too. And if you think an introverted actor (and especially a mild introvert) who's doing an interview — where he's expected to be, you know, "on" and engaging — and who's talking about things he feels strongly about, couldn't possibly be "energetic and animated," I'd say you've got an exaggerated/extreme view of what introversion involves.

    Also, as a final complicating factor, the Big Five dimension (neuroticism) that doesn't have a corresponding MBTI dimension can have a significant impact on whether someone tends to come across as more "animated" or calm in conversation, regardless of whether they're extraverted or introverted. And introverts are actually somewhat more likely to be above-average in neuroticism than extraverts, and some studies have indicated that artists (of various kinds) also tend to be above-average in neuroticism.

    By the way, I'm not familiar enough with Garfield to have any kind of strong view on whether he's E or I — or NFP, for that matter, although I'd note that that's a very common actor type. I'm just saying that the fact that he tends to be "energetic and animated" in interviews is no reason to say he couldn't be an INFP — and especially a mildly introverted INFP. A quick Google seems to indicate that he's most often typed as an introvert, and that he considers himself an introvert.

    Here's a bit from People Magazine | Andrew Garfield protected as child
    sure, it's not a concrete infallible way to tell if someone's an extrovert or not but most of the time an extrovert will have this kind of energy about them that introverts usually don't have. There's definitely a trend, if it can't be predicted this way 100% of the time

  9. #19
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    People boiling it down to " introverts can energetic and animated" have entirely missed my point. Oversimplification is the main problem with that video.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  10. #20
    Senior Member reckful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    People boiling it down to " introverts can energetic and animated" have entirely missed my point. Oversimplification is the main problem with that video.
    I wasn't replying to you. I was responding to lulabelle's assertion that Garfield was "too consistently energetic and animated to be an INFP."

    As long as you're back, though...

    What do you make of Garfield's characterization of himself as "shy" and "introverted" in that People article?

    Repeated for ease of reference:

    Andrew needed special care when he was growing up.

    "I didn’t act a lot when I was a teenager, I started around 16. But it was more at school than in the theater. Initially I was very shy and sensitive. In a certain way I’ve always needed to be protected, because I was slim and the youngest in my family," he explained to leiweb.it. "Then I started to want to protect the others, especially the weak or the introverted people, like I was."

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