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  1. #101
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Point of order too: if this fabled N2N trainspotting is to work, that'll be some magically slick mind reading, seeing as how the content of an introverted perception function is guaranteed to be idiosyncratic. Personalized, even. So I guess you're claiming that style rather than substance is recognisable. And that is likely to be true. But it sure as shit begs the question where do you witness that style? Inside the other person's head? You have ur xray specs?

    Surprisingly perhaps, what INTJs ask other people to be first and foremost is literal*. Consider, you girls have trouble understanding me and supposedly this is because of underdeveloped Te, yes? Well guess again, sisters! This ossified concept you have of extroverted thinking as logic is wrong. Te is mechanism expressed. And there are a great many more mechanisms than reason.

    Made that up. Might be wrong. Vote 1 Kalach.



    *Relatively literal anyway. You want people to be straightforward. Straightforward with what, eh?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  2. #102
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Inside the other person's head? You have ur xray specs?
    Of course, it's called Ni.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  3. #103
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    Disagreed. If one is engaging others solely with Ni, there is often a lot of clicking involved when it comes to cognition that doesn't occur with other types.
    One doesn't engage others solely with Ni because it is an introverted function attitude. Extraverted function attitudes will be much easier to recognize in general because that is how one engages with the external world. I find Si somewhat evident as I get to know someone. Ti seems relatively easy to recognize. Fi is harder. Ni to me is the hardest. I'm glad it's easy for you but I have seen enough people who are poor at recognizing Ni dominance, even though in some cases they perceive themselves to be good at it, that I tend to think it's one of the more difficult ones to recognize.

    I challenge you to find an example - let's say a video on youtube where you can see someone who is clearly demonstrating Ni. You can see some of the results or outcomes of it but it is not that easy to discern.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    Or maybe they simply aren't the type they think they are?
    Could be but my statement didn't imply that they know anything about their type. It relates to assessing another person's type from an outside perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    Disagree. It probably isn't to those who either a) aren't Ni types or b) have yet to discern what Ni is. Once I became what Ni is, I have no troubles seeing Ni in others.
    Apparently you are more fortunate than I in your ability to ascertain this - or at least you think you are good at it .

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    P
    I can thus easily tell whether someone is an Ni type or not based on how good they are at getting where I am coming from. If they don't, probably not an Ni type.
    By the way, ENFPs are pretty good at understanding where INTJs are coming from.

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  4. #104
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    Of course, it's called Ni.
    D'awww! DO OLD LADIES PINCH YOUR CHEEKS?!
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  5. #105
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I think, if we're going to find out what inferior extroverted sensing is, then finding out why and how Extroverted Thinking is some balance to Ni is needed. Extroverted Thinking as an individual function is, who the hell knows what. But where it is "used" in conjunction with Ni, it surely must function to fulfill some cognitive (as opposed to conscious) need. Now, perception needs structure and intuition needs substance, so there's some clue.

    Somewhere along the way, Te is supposed to inject Ni with Se. Now of course that sentence is nonsense because if Se is inferior, it's largely undifferentiated, so no one is "using" it. But whatever is being picked up as "Te" is serving that injection role anyway. Te is the reality function--which isn't true because "reality" is concrete. Te is the debate function--which isn't true because debate is an activity. Te is the coordination function--which isn't true because coordination is an activity. Te "notices" when something is missing in a list or a plan--which is true because that's a question of structure, but structure of what?

    What I'm getting at, in a fairly peculiar way, is Se as an inferior function shapes what Te as an auxiliary can be. A large amount of what "Te" is supposed to be is in fact unconscious Se.

    The intuition here--visible to all, natch, because you haz the using of the N-eye--is that any narrative, where real, is Te. Not Te has held by magical mystics with uniquely operating independent functions, but Te as run by an INTJ. And this caveat "where real" is the key. Ask where a narrative is true is... just weird. That's just too pure a question for something so clunky as "Te". But asking where a narrative is real... that at base is the truly hard question. And it's the one you want, isn't it INTJs. Right alongside being the one you fear.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  6. #106
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I think, if we're going to find out what inferior extroverted sensing is, then finding out why and how Extroverted Thinking is some balance to Ni is needed. Extroverted Thinking as an individual function is, who the hell knows what. But where it is "used" in conjunction with Ni, it surely must function to fulfill some cognitive (as opposed to conscious) need. Now, perception needs structure and intuition needs substance, so there's some clue.

    Somewhere along the way, Te is supposed to inject Ni with Se. Now of course that sentence is nonsense because if Se is inferior, it's largely undifferentiated, so no one is "using" it. But whatever is being picked up as "Te" is serving that injection role anyway. Te is the reality function--which isn't true because "reality" is concrete. Te is the debate function--which isn't true because debate is an activity. Te is the coordination function--which isn't true because coordination is an activity. Te "notices" when something is missing in a list or a plan--which is true because that's a question of structure, but structure of what?

    What I'm getting at, in a fairly peculiar way, is Se as an inferior function shapes what Te as an auxiliary can be. A large amount of what "Te" is supposed to be is in fact unconscious Se.

    The intuition here--visible to all, natch, because you haz the using of the N-eye--is that any narrative, where real, is Te. Not Te has held by magical mystics with uniquely operating independent functions, but Te as run by an INTJ. And this caveat "where real" is the key. Ask where a narrative is true is... just weird. That's just too pure a question for something so clunky as "Te". But asking where a narrative is real... that at base is the truly hard question. And it's the one you want, isn't it INTJs. Right alongside being the one you fear.
    I have always thought Ni and Se to be the functions that are paired.

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  7. #107
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I have always thought Ni and Se to be the functions that are paired.
    Except that undifferentiated Se hardly exists at all as a conscious concern. The pairing, whatever it is, doesn't seem like it can be some 1+1 arrangement. This is especially true if "functions" as we know them are kinds of cognition as they approach consciousness. That is, if cognition only assumes the more "functional" character as it approaches consciousness. Which seems plausible. After all, how would an undifferentiated function have some individual character and still be undifferentiated?

    So, the pairing is something other than a pairing.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  8. #108
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Except that undifferentiated Se hardly exists at all as a conscious concern. The pairing, whatever it is, doesn't seem like it can be some 1+1 arrangement. This is especially true if "functions" as we know them are kinds of cognition as they approach consciousness. That is, if cognition only assumes the more "functional" character as it approaches consciousness. Which seems plausible. After all, how would an undifferentiated function have some individual character and still be undifferentiated?

    So, the pairing is something other than a pairing.
    In 8 Keys To Self Leadership, Nardi describes these as Tandem processes. He uses the example of a tandem bicycle with two riders - "The front rider pedals and steers. The back rider just pedals. Without the back rider, pedaling is harder work. We could simply ride a one person bicycle by ourselves, but then we miss out on doing something greater than ourselves."

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  9. #109
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    In 8 Keys To Self Leadership, Nardi describes these as Tandem processes. He uses the example of a tandem bicycle with two riders - "The front rider pedals and steers. The back rider just pedals. Without the back rider, pedaling is harder work. We could simply ride a one person bicycle by ourselves, but then we miss out on doing something greater than ourselves."
    The back rider probably has Tourettes too. And you can never see him directly. He's like a shade or a dwarfish basement ghoul. He sits back there, jumping on the pedals and yelling at chicks, and you have to keep apologizing for him. "Goddamnit, Se! I'm sorry, ladies, that's my inferior sensing, I deny him like he's Jesus."
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  10. #110
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    The back rider probably has Tourettes too. And you can never see him directly. He's like a shade or a dwarfish basement ghoul. He sits back there, jumping on the pedals and yelling at chicks, and you have to keep apologizing for him. "Goddamnit, Se! I'm sorry, ladies, that's my inferior sensing, I deny him like he's Jesus."


    Yeah maybe

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