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  1. #91
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I wouldn't know how to measure how functional my functions might be. It's a tiny bit bizarre even thinking what such a measure might be. But as for my form of expression, it would seem to be less "Te" than some of the gloomier INTJs.

    It would seem I make a public virtue out of being somewhat cryptic. Surprisingly perhaps, I think of this as being clear and rational. Or more exactly, as creative of clarity and rationality. The process of blurting out my various imagistic concerns tends to lend structure to them and make them more real. They are tested and forged. That other people have trouble with them is an issue, but perhaps not a big one. Ultimately, ideally--and granted, this is only an ideal, but--ideally, if there's a person you defend your ideas against, it's yourself.

    You are obliged to know where your thinking is subjective, where it is contingent, where it is weak. The idiosyncrasy you bring to speculation is vital if you are to speculate at all, but the substance of your speculation must eventually find some demonstration. So, y'know, blurt it out, see what happens. Personally I think of that as a Te/Se process but who knows, people are idiots, it could be anything.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I wouldn't know how to measure how functional my functions might be. It's a tiny bit bizarre even thinking what such a measure might be. But as for my form of expression, it would seem to be less "Te" than some of the gloomier INTJs.
    That is an interesting point. I don't really know how you'd really go about it either...

  3. #93
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    Your poor attempts to corner me are quite amusing. The only reason you don't think my point of view is informative is because you do not share my type of cognition and this is why this discussion is going nowhere.
    Is there any reason to believe that two individuals of the same type of cognition would necessarily agree?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #94

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    I haven't followed this thread but seeing the old "different cognition" card being pulled brings back memories.

  5. #95
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    if different people can use the same function in different ways... OH. My. GOD>

    Actually, that's probably some kind of automatic contradiction. But it seems like a commonplace to say people could use the same function to different ends. In which case... oh good lord, what have I done? There might be principles of operation for each function but the different content of different psyches will lead to... what kind of variation? Or are the different contents the product of a variation, say enneagram variation?

    WHERE DOES IT ALL COME FROM?!
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  6. #96
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I think you two are talking past each other and I'm not sure it has to do with types of cognition you share.
    People disagreeing often tends to have to do with differences in cognition because we see reality too differently.
    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Is there any reason to believe that two individuals of the same type of cognition would necessarily agree?
    You don't have to agree with each other's conclusions (although I find that it is rare for this to happen, as a whole), but you will still understand the reasoning process as to why they arrived at that conclusion and as a whole, discussion will feel so much more meaningful because you understand where the other person is coming from and how they arrive at the conclusions they arrived at.

    I can thus easily tell whether someone is an Ni type or not based on how good they are at getting where I am coming from. If they don't, probably not an Ni type.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  7. #97
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    People disagreeing often tends to have to do with differences in cognition because we see reality too differently.
    Of course. I have used this to understand conflicts between individuals for years. There are many other reasons that people disagree though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamishi View Post
    I can thus easily tell whether someone is an Ni type or not based on how good they are at getting where I am coming from. If they don't, probably not an Ni type.
    This on the other hand is not a very good method for you to use to assess whether someone is an Ni type. It might provide a data point or clue but that is all. Ni doms misunderstand each other all the time because they are always jumping to conclusions and are not always the best at explaining themselves and can close off input or information from others judging it as wrong. You do a pretty good job at explaining yourself and have a command of the subject matter. I think demonstrating a little bit of humility can also go a long way towards encouraging others to listen to what you have to say and have a desire to respond.

    I generally try and assess a person's type by how they communicate vs. whether or not we seem to be on a similar wavelength. However, one thing I have learned is that some communicate in a manner that is inconsistent with their type, which may be based on learned behavior, their profession, personal experience or maybe a desire to be different. Their type is obscured through this atypical or generic communication style.

    Ni in general is the most difficult of the function attitudes to discern. It isn't very visible.

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  8. #98
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I have no objection to Kamishi being president for a while. She might say something more about this ego thing.

    Does it have structure of its own or is it meaningful only in relation to those two other whatsits? Because that structural model of Freud's seems like it has the serious disadvantage of being basically just made up.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  9. #99
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Of course. I have used this to understand conflicts between individuals for years. There are many other reasons that people disagree though.
    I never said it was the one singular explanation.

    This on the other hand is not a very good method for you to use to assess whether someone is an Ni type. It might provide a data point or clue but that is all. Ni doms misunderstand each other all the time because they are always jumping to conclusions and are not always the best at explaining themselves and can close off input or information from others judging it as wrong. You do a pretty good job at explaining yourself and have a command of the subject matter. I think demonstrating a little bit of humility can also go a long way towards encouraging others to listen to what you have to say and have a desire to respond.
    Disagreed. If one is engaging others solely with Ni, there is often a lot of clicking involved when it comes to cognition that doesn't occur with other types.

    I generally try and assess a person's type by how they communicate vs. whether or not we seem to be on a similar wavelength. However, one thing I have learned is that some communicate in a manner that is inconsistent with their type, which may be based on learned behavior, their profession, personal experience or maybe a desire to be different. Their type is obscured through this atypical or generic communication style.
    Or maybe they simply aren't the type they think they are?

    Ni in general is the most difficult of the function attitudes to discern. It isn't very visible.
    Disagree. It probably isn't to those who either a) aren't Ni types or b) have yet to discern what Ni is. Once I became what Ni is, I have no troubles seeing Ni in others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    I have no objection to Kamishi being president for a while. She might say something more about this ego thing.
    It's he, not she. Why assume a poster's gender if you can't tell by visual cues e.g. there is a gender icon under my username? I've also written about my gender elsewhere and those posts clearly state that it's "he".

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  10. #100
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    In that case I formally object to your nomination. This sorority can't have a dude as a president. It would make a mockery of everything INTJ.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

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