User Tag List

First 6789 Last

Results 71 to 80 of 81

  1. #71
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Ha! I guess that would apply to all people, and I was trying just to present it without communicating any specifics. If I were to say my best hypothesis - it is that I don't think "INFJs" filter ideas unconsciously any more than any other type. I didn't want to be confrontational or certain about it because I don't have enough enough information to present it as a solid idea. I don't know if that is helpful. I wasn't dismissing that it happens, I was just being accommodating and uncertain in my communication.
    Stop apologising, INFJ!

    I'm not even offended.

    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  2. #72
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,112

    Default

    I think maybe part of it is that INFJs tend to do their filtering at the front end: with ideas, with who they welcome into their inner circle, with trying to predict where paths, relationships or feelings will take them. That way, once the work is done, they can relax a bit and let their guard down. (The downside is that if they become close to someone who later proves untrustworthy, it takes a long time for the INFJ to really be willing to believe that that is truly the case and the person has the capability to really mess with the INFJ first). I would by far like to do proactive, preventative work than try to clean up an unnecessary mess after the fact. I'd liken it to trying to getting grape juice out of a white carpet - much easier to set the glass where it won't get knocked over than invest in stain remover. I think that is in part for me, not only a logical decision, but it also is because I know that I have a much harder time processing difficult things and I find it hard to do without the help of various other people.

    In contrast, I think that some other types open the floodgates at the beginning and only close them as necessary after the fact. The things that allows that system to work is that I believe they are more self-sufficient during the process of sorting out their feelings about what happened and getting on with things.

    It was surprising to me to finally realize a few years ago that a lot of people don't think in terms of where each pathway leads to. To me it is like breathing. I would never think to verbalize that because it is so much a part of the landscape for me and I sometimes have thought that people were willfully being obtuse by acting like they couldn't have guessed what would happen next. Since being here, I've learned that that isn't the case and also seen both the benefits as well as downsides of that kind of orientation and approach to the world.

  3. #73
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 so/sp
    Posts
    2,912

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I think maybe part of it is that INFJs tend to do their filtering at the front end: with ideas, with who they welcome into their inner circle, with trying to predict where paths, relationships or feelings will take them. That way, once the work is done, they can relax a bit and let their guard down. (The downside is that if they become close to someone who later proves untrustworthy, it takes a long time for the INFJ to really be willing to believe that that is truly the case and the person has the capability to really mess with the INFJ first). I would by far like to do proactive, preventative work than try to clean up an unnecessary mess after the fact. I'd liken it to trying to getting grape juice out of a white carpet - much easier to set the glass where it won't get knocked over than invest in stain remover. I think that is in part for me, not only a logical decision, but it also is because I know that I have a much harder time processing difficult things and I find it hard to do without the help of various other people.

    In contrast, I think that some other types open the floodgates at the beginning and only close them as necessary after the fact. The things that allows that system to work is that I believe they are more self-sufficient during the process of sorting out their feelings about what happened and getting on with things.
    Yeah, this is basically what I was getting at.

    It was surprising to me to finally realize a few years ago that a lot of people don't think in terms of where each pathway leads to. To me it is like breathing. I would never think to verbalize that because it is so much a part of the landscape for me and I sometimes have thought that people were willfully being obtuse by acting like they couldn't have guessed what would happen next. Since being here, I've learned that that isn't the case and also seen both the benefits as well as downsides of that kind of orientation and approach to the world.
    That's the hard thing though, right? Working out how the hell someone could not think about things in the same way. It's all very well to talk about differences in cognitive functions in theory, but it is very bizarre when it sinks in how deep those differences go in actuality. Those deep distinctions are hard to comprehend.

    I was going to ask though, what about the INFJ wariness of emotions? You've mentioned before that you are uncertain about your feelings and what they're telling you. Do you find emotions too messy to attribute clear cause and effect to, and consequently the 'pathways' don't reveal themselves to you as easily? Is this partly why you might avoid, what @Mane called, "ugly thoughts"?
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #74
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,112

    Default

    I wouldn't say that I'm wary of my emotions. It's more that I feel they are transient and so I don't attach much significance or personal identity to them.

    I sometimes find though that they sneak up on me or build and I don't always realize how much something is bothering me until the dam breaks. This usually is after there are several incidents that bothered me, but I didn't have an explanation for why they did, or a larger pattern that they fit into. When that pattern finally emerges, that's usually when the negative emotion washes over in a wave. Usually it's a very small detail that is the final straw that breaks the camel's back. Depending on how the person decided to respond in the previous number of unexplained, but negative incidents, it may never advance to that state. That's why it's very hard for me to know if something is big enough to bring up or if it is just me on that day, or if it just an isolated incident, or if I am looking at things incorrectly, or if it something that is of significance but I don't know what the significance is yet, even though it creates a certain kind of gut feeling etc. By the time it does become clear, usually I feel upset enough that I don't want to address it in the moment, or else the emotions overflow and I find myself extremely embarrassed at the lack of control and apologizing for my reaction, even as the situation still remains unresolved.

    I do find it unsettling when I can't figure out why something makes me feel a certain way. I find tremendous emotional relief once I can finally figure out what has triggered that feeling and that it's a valid thing or even once I can explain where a certain behaviour in someone else is stemming from. I would prefer direct information, as I care about accuracy, but Ni possibilities running amuck (sp) in the absence of real information are too terrible for me to bear and so I need at least a working hypothesis to start from. (I realize this is less than ideal, as other types of course aren't going to think the way I do, so I'm likely to be incorrect in my assumptions and probably annoy them terribly in the process for my presumption).

    I see negative feelings as an indicator that something needs to be looked at. When the problem is addressed, or time has passed and objectivity is regained, or the puzzle is solved, then the negative emotion naturally goes away. Perhaps that even explains in part some reframing of the situation after the fact. It is an attempt at resolving the problem in one's own head if a proper kind of resolution can't be found elsewhere.

    I think the reason for reframing after the fact could be that little details in themselves aren't a big deal until suddenly Ni connects a bunch of niggling details into a larger overall emerging pattern of behaviour in the other person and then it's easy to feel foolish and resentful for allowing oneself to put up with it that long (especially if it was obvious to onlookers).

    Yes, I would say that emotions create noise that makes it distracting and hard for me to get on with the business of problem solving. I don't find them useful in and of themselves and sometimes I find that it is not immediate clear whether I feel that way because I am tired, because I am being unreasonable, because the other person is being unreasonable, whether there are outside factors I haven't considered or something else. I usually need to come up with some kind of hypothesis after I've had time to let things settle a bit, and then bounce it off of one or two trusted people privately to see if it holds any water.

    I think maybe avoiding ugly thoughts is more a matter of avoiding the incredible amount of emotional energy and processing time taken up with dealing with those thoughts. It's kind of like purposely downloading a very large and memory consuming computer program right at a time when you also need to be actively using several programs. It just bogs the whole system down and would work better if you wait until you know you won't need the computer for a bit, so that it doesn't interfere with the rest of the work that needs to be accomplished.

  5. #75
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,810

    Default

    INFJ's sound like monsters.

    I'm staying away!
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  6. #76
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    2,631

    Default

    I identify a lot with everything @fidelia said.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  7. #77
    Senior Member hazelsees's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    it is, feedback from others is welcomed.



    so... what happens when someone else opens the box?
    Hi Mane.
    In my mind, I'm comparing the "pre-thought" to the "box"--to see if they are actually the same thing. They might be different things. The box is the thing that is being avoided, right? And the pre-thought is almost thinking about what is in the box, but not actually going there. An awareness that the box exists. (Sorry, it's a bit confusing and everyone's posts are so awesome and I need to think on each word in each post and that's not going to happen anytime soon. Typing it out helps because things are so web-y in my mind.)

    If someone opens the box, it causes panic.
    If it's by accident and the other party just happens to know about the box too, and opens it up--I panic inside and try to shut it back down as quickly and kindly as possible.
    If someone charges ahead because 1. They are being butts and know that I want it to stay shut or 2. they really want to open the box for some other less evil reason or 3. they think opening the box would be a healing thing -- it's all the same. That's when the crazy comes out. Depending on how forceful the other party, the crazy can be a varying degrees. It's all about getting away from them and the box.

  8. #78
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,112

    Default

    Something else I was just thinking about. I have monthly concerts for my students to participate in. It is a very valuable time, not only for kids to practice leadership skills, get repertoire together as a group, get to know one another in a relaxed and non-competetive environment, and involve the audience and their family in day, but it serves as a huge motivator for the kids' practice, and also allows parents to swap ideas and talk. This month, some of the most experienced players have bailed for various reasons. It is indeed a busy time of year, but the reasons for missing are dumb ones, and are mostly due to parents' lack of prioritizing, rather than the children.

    I felt really demoralized and am frustrated at some of the parents who don't understand that this isn't really about violin at all, but rather about developing character, confidence and communication skills and the program I offer affects all areas of life, rather than being an activity where you show off your skills and then leave.

    As I have been wrestling with how to set things up for next year, I've come to a few conclusions and also had a chance to bounce some ideas of my mother to figure out just why I felt so upset initially. Through doing that, I came to some realizations and developed a plan for what I was going to do. I also made the necessary adjustments in my head for a concert with a different collection of kids and what we would do for repertoire. Now, while the situation hasn't changed, and I still feel that I need to have a discussion with those parents if we are going to continue next year, I no longer feel upset. If I can find a way to understand the situation or deal with it, it no longer upsets me. If it's okay in my head, then it's okay, whether or not the situation is fixed.

    I think this is both a good and a bad quality. In some ways, it allows INFJs to be much more patient with others and to see things from multiple perspectives. At it's worst, it means that the INFJ either puts up with far too much before dealing with the problem and then when there is too much emotional noise, it means that the INFJ either has to cut the person off for awhile until things quiet down or else they re-write the narrative in their head a little bit in the light of this new information to make sense of it and cope with the situation. (I don't mean make up, but perhaps put different perspective on it than before).

    ESTJs cannot abide being stuck in a holding pattern of inaction. For me, I cannot abide being stuck in a holding pattern of flux about what I think about the situation. I have to be able to draw some kind of conclusion, even if it a temporary one, so that the tension in my head can be released. I suppose both of those traits are outgrowths of extraverted functions (ESTJ - Te), (INFJ-Fe?).

    A lot of things that would not normally be huge issues in and of themselves become a big deal when I realize that they are indicative of a larger problem. Therefore, it may seem sometimes like all is going along with with the INFJ and then all the sudden one small thing happens and it appears to be a complete dealbreaker, with no notice!!! In reality, those other things were also issues along the way, but depending on how the other person chooses to respond to them, the little things' larger meaning may appear to be much different to the INFJ. That's why one little thing can end up becoming a huge issue in a short amount of time.

  9. #79
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Posts
    3,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    INFJ's sound like monsters.

    I'm staying away!
    Well, I was called a monster TWO times this week! But it's okay because one party said I was a "monster with a paint brush" and another said I was just an ordinary "Cookie Monster." So, thank you, AA. I LOVE being a monster! I'm gonna OWN it. [snaps fingers and twists all about chanting, monster, monster, monster while visions of Where the Wild Things are dance through my head.]
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  10. #80
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    The Monster at the End of this Book was one of my favorite things to read to my kids.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

Similar Threads

  1. [INFJ] infjs in super-charged emotionally exciting long-term relationships
    By the state i am in in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-12-2010, 12:03 AM
  2. [INFJ] INFJ and distance in relationships
    By laudanum225 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 02-21-2010, 08:12 PM
  3. [MBTItm] ISFP and INFJ in a romantic relationship?
    By cgress in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-23-2009, 01:23 PM
  4. [MBTItm] INTP + INFJ in work relationship?
    By Isb in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-21-2008, 01:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO