Animal
So carnal it's spiritual
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2013
- Messages
- 650
- MBTI Type
- SeFi
- Enneagram
- 4
I typed this out word for word while listening. There may be some mistakes but it should be close. I figured I'd post it in case anyone found it useful.
Social
"He's a kind of social anti-social. A social 8 is a contradiction of terms - a child who became violent in defending his mother from his father, a violence out of solidarity. I resonate with that sentence about thundering before injustice .. a social 8 has that... the main issue, Ichazo called it 'friendship.' I dont like to use words that have universal meanings or big meanings for specific ego games. I have looked for an alternative, and I'm more comfortable with complicity. But it has to do with loyalty. Let's say a child who bands together with mother against father and develops a strong anti-father mindedness that makes him a problem at school, he rejects school because of [father complex / patriarchal culture,] becomes anti-intellectual because of that... but the sexual one is the one who becomes more overtly anti-intellectual. The social one, it's basically a loyalty.. if you go in with a Freudian mind, you can call it complicity, you could speak of oedipus complex.. you could say the boy needs so much love, and he needs it from the mother, and has no hope of finding it from father, so I'm gonna band with mother against father, I'm going to protect mother.. you can go into Freudian dynamics.. and say after all it is a matter of self-interest, it's not just pure loyalty. But in the experience of people, it's very hard to go beyond the felt experience of simple loyalty.
General 8 commentary
If you ask Carl Marx about the source or the nature of the solidarity [of the exploited], he would not accept the Freudian approach... [missed a bit here].. or that his kinship with his mother was about his own love needs. But it's hard for these 8s to make love needs conscious. Every personality disturbance is a disturbance in the way we go about finding love. In being too cute, or too good in school, or too perfect with morality or this or that.. but in an 8, the main thing is giving up. Well there is no love, better go for power, better go for pleasure, better go for what you want, instead of expecting love. Don't be sentimental. People who look for love are sentimental. So an 8 is a character that gravitates to cynicism, ruggedness, hardening. So I would say in general there are love issues but they're not so accessible. And maybe the fact that they show up so little in activities geared to self-knowledge is because it's a lot harder for an 8 to develop this kind of insight into the emotional life. There's a lot of repression, repression of the tender side. It's as if the inner child had to be buried in order to go out into life in the Darwinian way, to struggle through existance... an 8 is a little bit like that, somebody red and tooth and claw...armed to the teeth.
Self-Preservation
So the most armed of all is preservation 8. The word there is satisfaction.. "I have to have it. This is mine. I have to get it." It's more an intolerance of frustration of whatever you want. It's a little bit like a sexual 1 - "have to get it," but the 1 is hyper social and the 8 is under-social. 1 is too much concerned with norms, 8 too little. Take a sexual 1 that is 8ish and seems an 8 issue. A sexual 1 can be confused with an 8. A preservation 8 goes after his needs, doesnt need to talk very much. It's like a lion who only moves when he's hungry. He goes, gets his hunger satisfied, and then he sleeps for the rest of the day. Very majestic. He's like a no nonsense, no words, no word play in a preservation 8. You could say the need is an exaggerated selfishness. These are people who know how to do business and barter and get the upper hand over everybody. You have the expression a used car salesman. That is the talent of the preservation 8. It's been said it's a survivor. Preservation 8 knows how to survive in the most difficult situations, knows how to get things and to get around. That's very different, a survival type, from the social who is more loyal and less egoistc.
Sexual
And the sexual is.. the word there is possession. And I used to think it has to do with possessions first. Then I thought it was circumscribed to taking hold of the other, as we are going to say, this person is very possessive in his relationships. Today I think it has more to do with taking possession of the whole scene, it's like.. a little bit like being the center. I think this sexual 8 fascinating. The power comes through a greater seductiveness, a greater fascination, different shades stylistically than the others; the others didnt have so many colors in their feathers. But it is more generalized about social types.. the one that is most emotional.. in this case sexual, another which is more action which is preservation.. the other is more intellectual, and definitely, the only intellectual 8 is the social.
Social
"He's a kind of social anti-social. A social 8 is a contradiction of terms - a child who became violent in defending his mother from his father, a violence out of solidarity. I resonate with that sentence about thundering before injustice .. a social 8 has that... the main issue, Ichazo called it 'friendship.' I dont like to use words that have universal meanings or big meanings for specific ego games. I have looked for an alternative, and I'm more comfortable with complicity. But it has to do with loyalty. Let's say a child who bands together with mother against father and develops a strong anti-father mindedness that makes him a problem at school, he rejects school because of [father complex / patriarchal culture,] becomes anti-intellectual because of that... but the sexual one is the one who becomes more overtly anti-intellectual. The social one, it's basically a loyalty.. if you go in with a Freudian mind, you can call it complicity, you could speak of oedipus complex.. you could say the boy needs so much love, and he needs it from the mother, and has no hope of finding it from father, so I'm gonna band with mother against father, I'm going to protect mother.. you can go into Freudian dynamics.. and say after all it is a matter of self-interest, it's not just pure loyalty. But in the experience of people, it's very hard to go beyond the felt experience of simple loyalty.
General 8 commentary
If you ask Carl Marx about the source or the nature of the solidarity [of the exploited], he would not accept the Freudian approach... [missed a bit here].. or that his kinship with his mother was about his own love needs. But it's hard for these 8s to make love needs conscious. Every personality disturbance is a disturbance in the way we go about finding love. In being too cute, or too good in school, or too perfect with morality or this or that.. but in an 8, the main thing is giving up. Well there is no love, better go for power, better go for pleasure, better go for what you want, instead of expecting love. Don't be sentimental. People who look for love are sentimental. So an 8 is a character that gravitates to cynicism, ruggedness, hardening. So I would say in general there are love issues but they're not so accessible. And maybe the fact that they show up so little in activities geared to self-knowledge is because it's a lot harder for an 8 to develop this kind of insight into the emotional life. There's a lot of repression, repression of the tender side. It's as if the inner child had to be buried in order to go out into life in the Darwinian way, to struggle through existance... an 8 is a little bit like that, somebody red and tooth and claw...armed to the teeth.
Self-Preservation
So the most armed of all is preservation 8. The word there is satisfaction.. "I have to have it. This is mine. I have to get it." It's more an intolerance of frustration of whatever you want. It's a little bit like a sexual 1 - "have to get it," but the 1 is hyper social and the 8 is under-social. 1 is too much concerned with norms, 8 too little. Take a sexual 1 that is 8ish and seems an 8 issue. A sexual 1 can be confused with an 8. A preservation 8 goes after his needs, doesnt need to talk very much. It's like a lion who only moves when he's hungry. He goes, gets his hunger satisfied, and then he sleeps for the rest of the day. Very majestic. He's like a no nonsense, no words, no word play in a preservation 8. You could say the need is an exaggerated selfishness. These are people who know how to do business and barter and get the upper hand over everybody. You have the expression a used car salesman. That is the talent of the preservation 8. It's been said it's a survivor. Preservation 8 knows how to survive in the most difficult situations, knows how to get things and to get around. That's very different, a survival type, from the social who is more loyal and less egoistc.
Sexual
And the sexual is.. the word there is possession. And I used to think it has to do with possessions first. Then I thought it was circumscribed to taking hold of the other, as we are going to say, this person is very possessive in his relationships. Today I think it has more to do with taking possession of the whole scene, it's like.. a little bit like being the center. I think this sexual 8 fascinating. The power comes through a greater seductiveness, a greater fascination, different shades stylistically than the others; the others didnt have so many colors in their feathers. But it is more generalized about social types.. the one that is most emotional.. in this case sexual, another which is more action which is preservation.. the other is more intellectual, and definitely, the only intellectual 8 is the social.
