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  1. #1
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Default Personality Type - An Owner's Manual



    This book, written by Lenore Thomson is one of the more popular ones out there. When I first read it, I have to admit to literally brimming with enthusiasm. There are chapters on the role of the dominant and auxiliary functions, the tertiary functions, type dynamics and the extraverted and introverted attitudes. After this material, the author goes into the profiles for each of the 16 types, which are absolutely outstanding - certainly the best that I have seen. There is a chapter on each dominant function and the two types associated with each are elaborated on in exhausting detail.

    The one thing I don't like about the book, and it is a fundamental aspect of the author's material, is the creative license that she takes in describing the role of the cognitive functions that are traditionally considered #5 through #8 in the stack. She talks about right brain alternatives (crow's nest), left brain double agents and describes these things as being integral to our personality. According to her material, these functions come out when we are in situations that the dominant functions can't handle. In describing the function order stack, she actually places those 5th through 8th functions in the middle between the dominant/auxiliary and the tertiary/inferior (i.e., as #3 - #6 instead of #5 - #8). I don't know if I believe in any of that really. Of course this stuff is all just a bunch of theory and could be fiction right?

    Anyway, because of the richness of the profile descriptions, I give the book 5 stars, but with the caveat that you have to take some of her material, which is her own invention, with a grain of salt.

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  2. #2
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Default

    Her arrangement is actually somewhat similar to Socionics Model A. She's not really making them #3-6. It does seem to make some sense, as like for me, Fe, as the inferior is like close enough to consciousness to be all the more shunned, but in stress, when needing a "humane" perspective on something the technical one can't solve; I may just swap the functions, but keep the dominant attitude (which in her theory would represent remaining in the same brain hemisphere), so hence, a lot of TP's who appear to "use" Fi, which also leads to a lot of TP/FP uncertainty.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  3. #3
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Default

    It had some okay info for beginners, some good info, but its also filled with stupid bullshit like that crows nest thing that are misleading for people trying to learn typology. This really makes the book something i wouldnt recommend for anyone who doesent already know typology to spot the crap in it, but those people wont find more than few things there that can expand their knowledge further.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  4. #4
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    It had some okay info for beginners, some good info, but its also filled with stupid bullshit like that crows nest thing that are misleading for people trying to learn typology. This really makes the book something i wouldnt recommend for anyone who doesent already know typology to spot the crap in it, but those people wont find more than few things there that can expand their knowledge further.
    I had actually had some what of a discussion with you about this sorta thing a LONG time ago. (I don't expect you to remember it or anything, I was just starting to post on TypoC.)

    Anyways...You had said that if I was an ENTJ...That I didn't have Fe. That if there was any resemblance to Fe that I had....it would be because I was using Te to express my Fi....which makes it look like Fe...

    I'm of course paraphrasing! You probably did not say this word for word. But this was the overall picture I had gotten from what you were trying to convey.

    ****

    Now I don't think I agreed with you back then, cause this Lenore stuff was really fresh in my mind. And I was very inclined to agree with her.

    This is also because everyone knows that when I have had built up emotions which I suck at introverting (inferior Fi,) I explode. It is an all-out outburst of emotions (usually extreme anger) But this was the only time that my ISFJ friend says that he ever sees me "emote." And I have gathered that "emoting" is something that Fe does.

    This was why I was inclined to side with Lenore. Cause she says that the first function that I go to, under extreme stress that Te can't handle, is Fe. Then if worse stress...I would go to Si after that...according to her theory.

    I definitely relate(d) to that.

    And I have also seen the face of INTP that I know, that looks like they're using Fi. Usually it's like a bitter face, where they're not expressing emotions...but it's oozing out of them like an introverted feeler would.

    *******

    But now....ever since you had brought up that it is probably Te expressing Fi (or however you put it,) I have not been able to tell the difference between that...and Fe.....

    So the questions is....do we use any of our 4 shadow functions...or are they just not a part of us?

    I still don't know.

    I love discussing the difference though, and wouldn't mind any feedback if you have any insight


    or @highlander can you tell me why you might not believe in any of that in which you were talking about, in the OP?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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  5. #5
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    or @highlander can you tell me why you might not believe in any of that in which you were talking about, in the OP?
    I kind of have the same view that @INTP does about the book. The crows nest and double agent stuff just seems invented.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  6. #6
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I kind of have the same view that @INTP does about the book. The crows nest and double agent stuff just seems invented.
    Is this because you don't think we use our shadow functions that much? Or?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  7. #7
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Is this because you don't think we use our shadow functions that much? Or?
    Basically yes.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  8. #8
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I had actually had some what of a discussion with you about this sorta thing a LONG time ago. (I don't expect you to remember it or anything, I was just starting to post on TypoC.)

    Anyways...You had said that if I was an ENTJ...That I didn't have Fe. That if there was any resemblance to Fe that I had....it would be because I was using Te to express my Fi....which makes it look like Fe...

    I'm of course paraphrasing! You probably did not say this word for word. But this was the overall picture I had gotten from what you were trying to convey.

    ****

    Now I don't think I agreed with you back then, cause this Lenore stuff was really fresh in my mind. And I was very inclined to agree with her.

    This is also because everyone knows that when I have had built up emotions which I suck at introverting (inferior Fi,) I explode. It is an all-out outburst of emotions (usually extreme anger) But this was the only time that my ISFJ friend says that he ever sees me "emote." And I have gathered that "emoting" is something that Fe does.

    This was why I was inclined to side with Lenore. Cause she says that the first function that I go to, under extreme stress that Te can't handle, is Fe. Then if worse stress...I would go to Si after that...according to her theory.

    I definitely relate(d) to that.

    And I have also seen the face of INTP that I know, that looks like they're using Fi. Usually it's like a bitter face, where they're not expressing emotions...but it's oozing out of them like an introverted feeler would.

    *******

    But now....ever since you had brought up that it is probably Te expressing Fi (or however you put it,) I have not been able to tell the difference between that...and Fe.....

    So the questions is....do we use any of our 4 shadow functions...or are they just not a part of us?

    I still don't know.

    I love discussing the difference though, and wouldn't mind any feedback if you have any insight


    or highlander can you tell me why you might not believe in any of that in which you were talking about, in the OP?
    Well the thing about functions is that first of all they are S T N F, not Se, Si, Te, Ti etc. Se is extraverted attitude(
    ) towards the function of sensing, which means that the objective factors that sensing shows is what Se person relates to automatically and trusts more readily, Si person relates automatically to the subjective factors more instead.

    It is impossible for person to hold two conflicting attitudes simultaneously, that is if the person isnt schizophrenic. With schizophrenics basically the subjective and the objective world is mixed and seen as one, hence the delusions/hallucinations/whatevers or maybe i should say that the delusions/hallucinations/whatevers are the result of mixing of the subjective and objective inputs to one. Im not sure if introversion and extraversion of same function is present, but this illustrates the problem of holding two opposite attitudes simultaneously.
    I think this is something that Jung might had seen most likely unconsciously when writing psychological types. In the chapter 'VII the type problem in aesthetics' where he speaks of extravert "feeling-into subject and animating it with himself" and introvert retreating from the object and creating an abstraction(removing irrelevant stuff and focusing on what is seen as relevant by the unconscious mind) of what is perceived. In my eyes it seems like schizophrenics create both an abstraction and animating the object with unconscious material really heavily.

    What comes to what i said earlier, i think that a thinking function is capable of processing material better suited for feeling processes. But heavy T users with undeveloped F will try to use T in F stuff because T is what they know how to do, what they automatically do and F is something not preferred by ego(this is the definition of shadow) and something really taxing and the personal weakness that the strong T users obviously doesent want to show others easily.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  9. #9
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    It is impossible for person to hold two conflicting attitudes simultaneously
    I think I agreed with this (and everything else,) and that's probably why what you said, had stuck with me for so long. It was pretty much me holding on to the contradiction to Lenore's theory that you presented, but I didn't know it at the time.

    Anyways thank you for clearing that up! I really appreciate the feedback



    *****



    On to my review: I will give it a 3. It was an interesting read, and it also opened me up to wanting to know more about the brain. Like where each function resides when used in the human brain and such. So it was like a gateway to Dario. However, I as well, am not sold completely on the fundamental theory presented, for reasons discussed above.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  10. #10
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    I've actually started to review this book several times on this site and given up halfway through because I have such a love-hate relationship with it. I almost wish she would write more so I could get a better feel for where she's coming from -- I've searched for her online and can't find anything, so I can't figure out if she's brilliant or opportunistic! Her insight into maturity and balance of functions is very good, but it seems to be a one-size-fits-all model that she tries to force all the types into, with varying success. I also really appreciate her brief references to mature use of third and fourth functions, because this is new and interesting, but she spends more time on the limited assertion that they cause problems when the auxiliary function is weak than on how to use them effectively when the auxiliary function is strong--which, as she admits, is material for another book -- I just wish she'd write it! I'm also not much on popular culture, so her digressions into Star Trek episodes, etc., don't add anything for me. Also, my limited knowledge of right and left brain research tells me that her use of right and left brain skills is limited, simplistic and outdated.

    On the other hand, her descriptions of the functions, dominant, auxiliary, introverted, and extroverted, are without parallel -- the examples she uses to illustrate the functions truly bring to life ideas that are often difficult to understand and readily stereotyped. Too many of the popular books on type have cartoonish descriptions of each type, but hers are intelligent, sophisticated, and nuanced -- the sort of things you really think about yourself rather than the horoscope-style flattery that you may briefly enjoy hearing about yourself! I also like her blow-by-blow descriptions of a malfunctioning auxiliary function--they're quite accurate as I've observed in myself and other people, although I'm not convinced that this is as widespread an occurrence as she seems to imply. I think most of the time the two functions work pretty well together but can break apart under stress and she sees it as more of a middle-aged crisis sort of a thing. I wish she'd better developed the idea of how the functions work together for most people most of the time.

    All right, if I go on any longer I may just hit the erase button and log out, and I really did want to add my thoughts about this book -- whatever criticisms I or anyone else has about this book, it deserves to be read and taken seriously.
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