[SP] Taking things at face value

[Grayscale]

I hate not being taken at face value.
"Pass me the tissues." "Are you sad?"
"That's a nice dress." "Are you coming on to me?"

exactly. i hate it when people read between the lines.

it is not that i am not aware of the possible meaning behind what someone is said, it is that i hate it when people assume things and so i dont do that to others.

i also believe that clear and to-the-point communication is the most efficient, it is easier to just say what you mean. otherwise, you are placing a responsibility on the other person to "figure you out", why should they have to do that exactly?


take this thread for example:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/science-technology-future-tech/9476-cameras.html

i am the only person in the entire thread who directly answered his question. if this was me asking, it would piss me off if people questioned why i wanted that or suggested alternatives when that is not what i asked for. just answer my damn question and let me take care of it!

 

[Jeffster]

Took the words out of my mouth.

I get this same damn thing in every relationship in my life. Whether it be romantic, platonic, business, friendship, whatever.

Just tell me what you want to say, what you want me to do, if I am pissing you off, if you're happy with me, something. I have better things to do with my time than to sit here and try to contemplate what may or may not be going on inside your head and how it possibly affects me.

Yeah, I always say "Just bottom-line it for me."

I am pretty sure this is the main reason I got divorced. She got sick of me not being able to read her mind, and I got sick of her trying to get me to.

I'd much rather hear "Hey, could you take the garbage out?" or "I'd really like a back rub" or "Are you going to respond to my email?" than a prolonged series of sighs and eyebrow furrows pointed in my direction.

BOY DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR.

I think you can wish and hope that people will tell you exactly what they want and when they want it, but I'm sure as every SP has figured out, it doesn't work that way. For me personally, it's important for people to understand how things are working inside of me without clearly spelling it out for them. If I say everything that is on my mind and communicate my every demand, it seems like the person isn't understanding my needs on a deeper non-verbal level.

Heh. I could just as easily say "I'm sure every non-SP has figured out, it doesn't work that way. I'm not going to understand your needs on a deeper non-verbal level unless I just make lucky guesses about things that are pretty universal."

Do SPs always express themselves clearly with no room for interpretation?

Pretty much. At least in the sense that I say what I mean, I don't try to bury in it a bunch of cryptic stuff. Over and over again, people seem to try to read things into it that aren't there, but that's their doing, because I'm consistent in my directness.

The thing is I have honestly found more SP's/SJ's wearing a mask I have to dig past than the other types. You are not always the bubbly open and upfront people you think you are, sometimes you are unable to express what's going on deeper inside and at those times the actions I see do not mirror the mask, then face value becomes pointless.

I'm not always bubbly, but if you ask me a direct question, I will always answer it as openly and honestly as I can. Well, I might be sarcastic sometimes, but I think that's usually pretty obvious when I'm doing that because I won't hold the straight face for long.

Oh, here's another question for SPs that I'm interested in learning more about. Are you incapable of reading into what people say or are you just unwilling to do so?

I think any relationship is a two way street. If I know the person I'm talking to is one of those who talks in cryptic ways, then I'm going to try to interpret them if it's someone I care about understanding. But no, I'm not very good at it. I have learned to pick up on some things just from experience, but it seems like many times I make assumptions, they are wrong, and I just make it worse.

 

[ygolo]

I don't really know exactly what it means to take things "at face value."--personally, I think it is impossible to do so without incurring error.

I think "face-value" refers to accepting ones first impression of a sitation. This may or may not be accurate.

Everyone has biases, everyone. Everyone reads into situations, and makes assupmtions, everyone. Our brain is a bunch of neurons, and the world it's processing is something else. If we weren't reading into the situation, we'd be unconcious. There is a reason optical illusions work on most people, and that words become more clear when you already know what they are--it's hard-wired into the brain.

I think it is generally better to make those assumptions explicit, if you have time.

I hate attempts at mind-reading, and expectations to do so as well.

But I also hate it when people make assumptions, and refuse to question them.

EDIT:I just re-read that. To head off any "reading between the lines," this is not aimed at any type in particular. There are just two sets of behaviours I really hate.

 

[nightning]

There's nothing wrong with taking things at face value. The only time you might run afoul is when what's on the surface isn't the truth. The person could be lying to you, they might not feel comfortable with telling the whole truth, or they might even be lying to themselves.

That said, whenever I talk to people I can't help but think about what other interpretations there might be behind their words, what their motives might be for saying things. An alarm goes off when I spot inconsistencies between words and actions. If I ask the SP and they insist they mean what they said I get confused. It gets frustrating when you know there's something left out but they keep on saying that's all there is.

 

[sarah]

Oh, here's another question for SPs that I'm interested in learning more about. Are you incapable of reading into what people say or are you just unwilling to do so?

For example, you talked about your ex's sighs and raised eyebrows. Did you know what they meant but neglected to respond to them for whatever reason, or did you just not understand what she was trying to communicate to you?

I'm not incapable of reading visual clues at all. I notice and understand nonverbal body language very well. But I'm not very adept at reading metaphoric, NON-visual signals. If you beat around the bush instead of telling me what's specifically on your mind, I'm likely to be wrong when I try to guess what you're really trying to tell me. In which case, I feel it's unfair to be called on the carpet for being "wrong", because I never wanted to play what I feel are pointless mind-guessing games in the first place.

I interpret a sigh and raised eyebrows as meaning that someone's displeased or annoyed with me. If I get that response, then I respond by asking what specifically I did that was annoying or displeasing. Just telling me, "Don't be annoying" doesn't help. I mean, duh! Your body language already told me I displeased you! If you want me to stop doing whatever it is, then tell me specifically what's wrong and I will do my best to remember that and be considerate in the future. I MIGHT be able to pick up on a behavior pattern if it's happened enough times before and I recall what exactly I said the last time that got that sort of response, but I tend to be more present-oriented, and not always going around looking for patterns in everything.

Sarah
ISFP

 

[sarah]

What about hurt feelings? Is that an issue? Sometimes when I'm dealing with SFPs and SFJs who, like you, don't like to search through lots of unspoken communication, I worry about hurting their feelings. Sometimes when people want me to be more direct, it almost seems like that is not what they want at all if the direct statement is unkind.

Being direct isn't the same thing as being mean. You can be very direct without humiliating people and crushing their feelings. It would hurt much more to know that someone secretly despises me for unknown reasons than if they simply requested I stop doing something they consider annoying. I'd much rather they say directly to me, "You know, it really irritates me when you ____. No offense meant, but could you please not say that or do that that around me any more?" I would probably feel really embarrassed at the time, but then I'd do my best to be considerate of you AND I'd appreciate you for speaking up to me directly about it instead of privately seething and then complaining about me behind my back to friends/coworkers/whatever.

Sarah
ISFP

 

[sarah]

exactly. i hate it when people read between the lines.


take this thread for example:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/science-technology-future-tech/9476-cameras.html

i am the only person in the entire thread who directly answered his question. if this was me asking, it would piss me off if people questioned why i wanted that or suggested alternatives when that is not what i asked for. just answer my damn question and let me take care of it!

This is a hoot! I can't belive none of these people were capable of just answering the question!


Sarah
ISFP

 

[alicia91]

I don't necessarily take theories and ideas at a face value, I'm pretty good at making connections. In terms of communication I am also quite good at reading people, but I generally refuse to play that game.

Are you incapable of reading into what people say or are you just unwilling to do so?

Generally unwilling, unless it's a small child or there is something about the situation that warrants it. Generally I hate the raised eyebrow, the direct stare - it's just playing games to me and I'll just ignore it. I don't have time for that nonsense.

Sorry, I'm tired or I'd go into more detail. This is a great topic, I have two friends who look pissed off or upset all the time, and want me to ask them 'what's wrong?' but I don't. They are just being attention-seeking drama queens. I'm avoiding them at the moment.

 

[heart]

The older I get and the more I understand people, I don't mind being taken at face value but I cannot stand is when someone takes what is on the surface and refuses to alter their views when given further information.

Example I am deep in thought over something, distracted.

"WHy are you so sad today?"
"I'm not sad, just preoccupied with something."
"Well, you look sad."
"Well, I am not, I am fine. Just thinking about something."
"You look sad, cheer up!"

and on and on!

I don't mind other people wanting me to spell out my needs or wants, what I don't like is when they won't accept what I am saying because they cannot imagine that anyone would have a different perspective or reaction than they do.

 

[animenagai]

this is quite interesting. a lot of times i feel that my SFP friends were better than me at reading people, but i guess they can be reading signs, while i was reading vibes. one of my friends is a psych major too, so i guess he can deviate from the norm .

i've never really realized that reading into things can be so annoying to some people. i thought it was a preference and nothing more. do you guys think it'll be wiser to be more straight up around S's then? would that put them more at ease?

 

[Jeffster]

i've never really realized that reading into things can be so annoying to some people. i thought it was a preference and nothing more. do you guys think it'll be wiser to be more straight up around S's then? would that put them more at ease?

It definitely puts me more at ease.

 

[Usehername]

exactly. i hate it when people read between the lines.

it is not that i am not aware of the possible meaning behind what someone is said, it is that i hate it when people assume things and so i dont do that to others.

i also believe that clear and to-the-point communication is the most efficient, it is easier to just say what you mean. otherwise, you are placing a responsibility on the other person to "figure you out", why should they have to do that exactly?


take this thread for example:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/science-technology-future-tech/9476-cameras.html

i am the only person in the entire thread who directly answered his question. if this was me asking, it would piss me off if people questioned why i wanted that or suggested alternatives when that is not what i asked for. just answer my damn question and let me take care of it!

But the OP was not knowledgeable for what was out there, and his idea was a bad one. Those more knowledgeable steered the OP in a different direction.

I am frustrated by memories from junior high when I was asking a lot of questions about things I didn't know anything about, and people gave me direct answers... and in retrospect I wasted a lot of my time following stupid interests that would've been genuinely interesting and worth the time investment if only someone had steered me in the right direction; a tangent of my original flawed plan.

 

[alicia91]

this is quite interesting. a lot of times i feel that my SFP friends were better than me at reading people, but i guess they can be reading signs, while i was reading vibes. one of my friends is a psych major too, so i guess he can deviate from the norm

I think plenty of SPs are good at reading people including vibes. I would think you need to ask a much larger sample than the handful we have here.

 

[sarah]

I think plenty of SPs are good at reading people including vibes. I would think you need to ask a much larger sample than the handful we have here.

Visual clues are easy to work with... people who beat around the bush with their verbal hints and riddle-like answers, not so much. I'm trying to understand it from other people's perspectives, but I have to admit it strikes me as inconsiderate that some people enjoy making you sit and listen to their elaborate metaphors and vague ramblings when they could have reduced all that verbage to several well-worded, beautifully clear sentences that say how they really think or feel.


Sarah
ISFP

 

[SolitaryPenguin]

I remember something I learned when my son was just starting to talk about telling him to "use his words" when trying to express himself. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to say that to grown adults.

"Use your words!"

 

[Grayscale]

But the OP was not knowledgeable for what was out there, and his idea was a bad one. Those more knowledgeable steered the OP in a different direction.

I am frustrated by memories from junior high when I was asking a lot of questions about things I didn't know anything about, and people gave me direct answers... and in retrospect I wasted a lot of my time following stupid interests that would've been genuinely interesting and worth the time investment if only someone had steered me in the right direction; a tangent of my original flawed plan.

it was never mentioned why he wanted a digital/analogue hybrid camera, just that he had no idea where to get one. if he was open to other suggestions, he should have started by stating the problem then asking "what kind of camera setup would work for this?" instead he asked a specific question and thus should get a specific answer.

you may be right, judging by the OPee's post later on in the thread, however non of the responders could have known that, and it just shows a poorly formed question as well as a poorly aimed response.

this is the point i think many are trying to make here: when you are not clear and direct, it is a cointoss whether you will be interpreted correctly. if i had written that question, i would have done so literally and as i said before, it would be irksome that nobody answered my question--this is the consequence of the fact that people are not clear... is that they learn to interpret what others say subjectively and start reading between the lines.

 

[Economica]

I don't really have anything to contribute at the moment but the constructive discussion going on between Ss and Ns of S/N differences makes this thread a great, illuminating read.

(Are those classic thread nominations still in play?)

 

[Usehername]

it was never mentioned why he wanted a digital/analogue hybrid camera, just that he had no idea where to get one. if he was open to other suggestions, he should have started by stating the problem then asking "what kind of camera setup would work for this?" instead he asked a specific question and thus should get a specific answer.

you may be right, judging by the OPee's post later on in the thread, however non of the responders could have known that,

But perhaps the Ns did know that (from recognizing this pattern before) and that's why they answered the way they did.

 

[heart]

Visual clues are easy to work with... people who beat around the bush with their verbal hints and riddle-like answers, not so much. I'm trying to understand it from other people's perspectives, but I have to admit it strikes me as inconsiderate that some people enjoy making you sit and listen to their elaborate metaphors and vague ramblings when they could have reduced all that verbage to several well-worded, beautifully clear sentences that say how they really think or feel.


Sarah
ISFP

The only person who always reads my non-verbal cues correctly is my ISFP friend.

 

[Poki]

Basically taking everything as crystallized and not willing to mold and sculpture it.

Once you mold and sculpt it how do you know it is what I originally wanted? To not take something at face value requires assumption and we all know what assuming does. Makes an ASS out of U and ME. If I sculpt a basic dog out of clay and you went and added teeth, fur, eyes, etc. its now your creation not mine.

I don't really know exactly what it means to take things "at face value."--personally, I think it is impossible to do so without incurring error.

I think "face-value" refers to accepting ones first impression of a sitation. This may or may not be accurate.

Everyone has biases, everyone. Everyone reads into situations, and makes assupmtions, everyone. Our brain is a bunch of neurons, and the world it's processing is something else. If we weren't reading into the situation, we'd be unconcious. There is a reason optical illusions work on most people, and that words become more clear when you already know what they are--it's hard-wired into the brain.

I think it is generally better to make those assumptions explicit, if you have time.

I hate attempts at mind-reading, and expectations to do so as well.

But I also hate it when people make assumptions, and refuse to question them.

EDIT:I just re-read that. To head off any "reading between the lines," this is not aimed at any type in particular. There are just two sets of behaviours I really hate.

I LOLed at that one. So in the edit you are simply saying "Take what I said at face value, dont read into it(read between the lines)" In this case not taking it at face value could incur error.