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  1. #81
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi'xer View Post
    an ENFJ has repeatedly asked/told me not to be 'cryptic' and hence I'm thinking its likely not a case of the presence of the N (both have it) but rather more likely the the combination of the Ne with a leading Ti combination preference.
    Or maybe cryptic has to do with opposites or near opposites not understanding one another..

  2. #82
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    This is the difference between Se and Ne, Ne is constantly looking at other random contexts while Se is constantly looking at the immediate one. Se sees all possibilities within the current one, the user can't help themselves. This is why SPs are the "practical guys" or whatever. This is also why NPs are totally insane (or perceived to be that way). Ne will say "hmm this seems like this from (insert random context here)" while an SP wouldn't have this as their natural reaction (unless this implication is obvious IME).

    I like SPs for this though. They are no-bullshit people. They will be up front with you typically, they won't mess with you (and if they do, well it's in good humor and again obvious just to be funny).
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  3. #83
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    Oh, here's another question for SPs that I'm interested in learning more about. Are you incapable of reading into what people say or are you just unwilling to do so?
    Totally capable, but unwilling. I like for people to verbalize what's going through their head. Body language, guessing games, its such a soft and unreliable science. To make a decision about what's going through someones mind, I like proof based on facts. In my mind, if they said it, then that's how they feel. If they said something, and they don't really feel that way, you can tell. But its the only solid thing that you have to go on. If you go on what people say, after a while people tend to get the hint that they need to say what they mean.
    Males tend to be better at saying what they mean then females.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    This is the difference between Se and Ne, Ne is constantly looking at other random contexts while Se is constantly looking at the immediate one. Se sees all possibilities within the current one, the user can't help themselves. This is why SPs are the "practical guys" or whatever. This is also why NPs are totally insane (or perceived to be that way). Ne will say "hmm this seems like this from (insert random context here)" while an SP wouldn't have this as their natural reaction (unless this implication is obvious IME).

    I like SPs for this though. They are no-bullshit people. They will be up front with you typically, they won't mess with you (and if they do, well it's in good humor and again obvious just to be funny).
    Actually Ni sees the possibilities, but questions them so its something we cant rely on. I do word things because of possibilities so I stand by take what I say at face value. If I want I can be purposely read into, but you first have to figure out if thats what I want and then you have to think to yourself why does he want to be read into

  5. #85
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    Actually Ni sees the possibilities, but questions them so its something we cant rely on. I do word things because of possibilities so I stand by take what I say at face value. If I want I can be purposely read into, but you first have to figure out if thats what I want and then you have to think to yourself why does he want to be read into
    Precisely. Was just stating Se vs Ne, and wasn't factoring in the whole Ni thing.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  6. #86
    Retired Member Wonkavision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Or maybe cryptic has to do with opposites or near opposites not understanding one another..
    Good point.

    Misunderstanding between types usually has more to do with the differences in how they perceive and process things, not the failure of one type to do a particular kind of perceiving and/or processing.

    Example:

    At work, an NF and an SJ may disagree about what a new policy means, but it's not because NFs "read too much into things" or "can't grasp simple facts".
    And it's not because SJs "can't read between the lines" or "always take things at face value."

    It's simply because NFs and SJs perceive and process things differently.



    Ideally, people with different ways of perceiving and processing things would "put their heads together" and reach a consensus.

    But as long as people assume that "different" means "unequal", reaching a consensus is impossible.
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    Good point.

    Misunderstanding between types usually has more to do with the differences in how they perceive and process things, not the failure of one type to do a particular kind of perceiving and/or processing.

    Example:

    At work, an NF and an SJ may disagree about what a new policy means, but it's not because NFs "read too much into things" or "can't grasp simple facts".
    And it's not because SJs "can't read between the lines" or "always take things at face value."

    It's simply because NFs and SJs perceive and process things differently.



    Ideally, people with different ways of perceiving and processing things would "put their heads together" and reach a consensus.

    But as long as people assume that "different" means "unequal", reaching a consensus is impossible.
    I agree, People who are each others shadow have opposite weak/strong functions so the get really different things from the same perception/words/actions/etc.

  8. #88
    PEST that STEPs on PETS stellar renegade's Avatar
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    Good thread.

    I've tried reading between the lines sometimes, especially for instance when seeking out a relationship recently, but it never works. I almost always read whatever signals wrong and end up falling flat on my face. It's exhausting, too, so I just give up and quit. TOO MANY CONFLICTING SIGNALS!!!!

    I'm good with facial features and body language, paying attention to that even moreso than with what someone says sometimes (if there's an obvious conflict). This is what Keirsey says about my type:

    What is it that gives them this edge? That is, what do they see that the rest of us pay little attention to? Body language. Foxes all, they watch lips and tongues, cheeks and jaws, brows and eyelids, and muscles around the eyes. Even the slightest and fleeting twitches and twists, frowns, grimaces, smiles and eye-rolls are noticed, along with groans and sighs, puffs and catches of breath, while shoulders and hands are also under surreptitious albeit constant surveillance. This is not to say that Promoter Initiators are attentive to what others say, rather that they are attentive to what others reveal by their gestures. For that matter, being highly expressive themselves, they are more likely to be inattentive to what others say.
    I guess basically I read peoples' desires for things in the present moment, for something tangible or a good time. I don't "get" the deeper emotions or concepts that people try to hint to me with, even SJs.

    Sometimes I do get something that somebody's trying to hint at me with, but I'll always ask them what's wrong to make sure because I don't want to assume.

    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Exactly. Respect that either they've told you the truth or they don't want you to hear the truth.
    YES!

    If someone doesn't say how they really feel, I certainly am not gonna waste time trying to figure it out. They can either tell me or I'm gonna move on.
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  9. #89
    Senior Member mcmartinez84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stellar renegade View Post
    If someone doesn't say how they really feel, I certainly am not gonna waste time trying to figure it out. They can either tell me or I'm gonna move on.
    Amen, bro.

    And I usually read signals the wrong way. I have a couple of friends I go to when I need help! One is ESTP (he knows most of my friends and is better at reading them), the other is INTJ (altho he thinks he has more feelings than I think he does - he's tested as both F and T) and the 3rd was INTP in high school, but has since changed to be more J. Once I gather opinions I'm ok! They usually think of stuff I never would have thought of...and they tend to be right more often than I am. Yay for friend advisors!
    I 65.63% E 34.38%
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  10. #90
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    I find myself taking a lot of things at face value. It seems to lead to open-mindedness I think. Sometimes I think that if I didn't take so many things at face value, then I wouldn't be as open as I am. When I realize something's true value (it's just this..or it's simply that..nothing more) it saves a lot of fuss.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

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