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  1. #51
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Instead of reading hidden meanings into what people say, I let them speak for themselves, rather than jumping to conclusions or making assumptions. I try to make it clear to people if they want me to know something, they can tell me and I'll take what they say for what it is, and they don't have to think of some clever, mysterious way to say stuff because I don't require that.
    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    But it's probably true that sensing means you'd rather take people for their word than have to listen to a bunch of vaguely worded hints and spend time trying to decipher the real message behind them. Having a conversation with someone who never directly says what they're thinking or feeling can be exhausting, especially if I make a wrong guess and I get blamed for misreading their minds. I jsut sometimes want to ask people like this if it would kill them to just say what they mean right out front, especially if I'm not in the mood for guessing games.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    But anyone who really wants to know beyond that, we also tend to be some of the most open people I think, not about hidden agendas or manipulation. Well, unless we're messing with somebody.

    Totally. I'm not a mind reader. Tell me what you want me to know and let's go from there, trying to beat around the bush or give me a verbal treasure map to try to locate the gold, and I'm liable to tune you out.
    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryPenguin View Post
    I have better things to do with my time than to sit here and try to contemplate what may or may not be going on inside your head and how it possibly affects me.

    She got sick of me not being able to read her mind, and I got sick of her trying to get me to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    i hate it when people read between the lines.

    it is not that i am not aware of the possible meaning behind what someone is said, it is that i hate it when people assume things and so i dont do that to others.

    i also believe that clear and to-the-point communication is the most efficient, it is easier to just say what you mean. otherwise, you are placing a responsibility on the other person to "figure you out", why should they have to do that exactly?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    I'm not going to understand your needs on a deeper non-verbal level unless I just make lucky guesses about things that are pretty universal."

    At least in the sense that I say what I mean, I don't try to bury in it a bunch of cryptic stuff. Over and over again, people seem to try to read things into it that aren't there.

    If I know the person I'm talking to is one of those who talks in cryptic ways, then I'm going to try to interpret them if it's someone I care about understanding. But no, I'm not very good at it. I have learned to pick up on some things just from experience, but it seems like many times I make assumptions, they are wrong, and I just make it worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    In which case, I feel it's unfair to be called on the carpet for being "wrong", because I never wanted to play what I feel are pointless mind-guessing games in the first place.

    I tend to be more present-oriented, and not always going around looking for patterns in everything.
    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    If I sculpt a basic dog out of clay and you went and added teeth, fur, eyes, etc. its now your creation not mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mallow View Post
    I agree, but my first SO didn't and went nuts when I didn't eagerly attempt to decipher every hint and clue they felt I was supposed to.
    To me it was just a guessing game until I realized the high cost of guessing incorrectly and then I'd just tell them to "Say it or forget it" because you get too sore when I don't guess it right, which, appropriately led to the blessed demise of that fiasco.

    I think people should actually read and comprehend the lines before they start trying to read between the lines and come up with a pile of crap that needs to be shoveled off when all that was there originally was a fly speck to be wiped away.

    Now I'm with someone who just says what they feel or think and becomes as irritated with people that expect her to have ESP as I do.
    We may seem simple and unsophisticated to the more clairvoyant types but it works for us and we're not changing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I hate when I say something that I mean and others try to look into what I said and interpret it. It usually ends up in me being pissed off.
    :blushing:



    Does it suddenly feel hot in here to anyone else?

    I have a feeling these people would not like me... at all.

    Think carefully about Ni while reading the quoted statements...

  2. #52
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    :blushing:



    Does it suddenly feel hot in here to anyone else?

    I have a feeling these people would not like me... at all.

    No, I like almost anyone, actually. Its some traits I don't like. If you were acting this way, you might make me mad momentarily. but overall I would still like ya, i'm sure!!

    Don't hide. We're really not that mean. We're just venting frustrations.

  3. #53
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    No, I like almost anyone, actually. Its some traits I don't like. If you were acting this way, you might make me mad momentarily. but overall I would still like ya, i'm sure!!

    Don't hide. We're really not that mean. We're just venting frustrations.
    I know, I guess that's right. But... seriously. Read the quoted statements again... and try to imagine how you'd feel if you lived in this world:

    Ni- Introverted iNtuiting

    Introverted iNtuiting involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level. Using this process, we can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to us. A disengagement from interactions in the room occurs, followed by a sudden “Aha!” or “That’s it!” The sense of the future and the realizations that come from introverted iNtuiting have a sureness and an imperative quality that seem to demand action and help us stay focused on fulfilling our vision or dream of how things will be in the future. Using this process, we might rely on a focal device or symbolic action to predict, enlighten, or transform. We could find ourselves laying out how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs. This process can involve working out complex concepts or systems of thinking or conceiving of symbolic or novel ways to understand things that are universal. It can lead to creating transcendent experiences or solutions.
    Don't you see? You all basically said, in not so many words... that you don't like Ni at all. True, you didn't say it directly... but can you really deny that the trend indicates that? I admit that I might be wrong, reading too much into it... but it seems like a pretty strong impression.

    Of course, I guess I could concede that not liking Ni doesn't necessarily translate to not liking NJs.

  4. #54
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Don't you see? You all basically said, in not so many words... that you don't like Ni at all. True, you didn't say it directly... but can you really deny that the trend indicates that? I admit that I might be wrong, reading too much into it... but it seems like a pretty strong impression.
    Yes, I do admit, the Ni-ness is a little fishy in my world. Actually, when you post the description like that it makes me realize more that its a preference, not a flaw. Its just a foreign language to us, I guess.

    Sometimes I read threads that are anti-Se in a way. I can't think of an example. But I feel like saying. "hey guys. I can't help it!!" (even if its not directed at me.)

  5. #55
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Yes, I do admit, the Ni-ness is a little fishy in my world. Actually, when you post the description like that it makes me realize more that its a preference, not a flaw. Its just a foreign language to us, I guess.
    That makes sense to me.
    Sometimes I read threads that are anti-Se in a way. I can't think of an example. But I feel like saying. "hey guys. I can't help it!!" (even if its not directed at me.)
    Yes, yes. I think I know how you feel... especially the "even if it's not directed at me" part.

    I'm honestly a little ashamed to admit that I went along with some of those threads even though part of me probably knew there really wasn't anything that bad about Se... not out of frustration, but because I didn't want to alienate the people who did believe that, draw frustration and accusations onto myself or break up their enjoyment of casting aspersions on the exaggerated image, and because it was a comfortable belief to entertain (at least until I was forced to deal with the negative implications of believing it), considering how clumsy I am with Se situations. I didn't want be the one to draw the attention to myself by pointing out the elephant in the room, I guess.

    Now that I know how it feels... I'm sorry I remained silent and went along with it.

    I read some of that stuff I wrote now and wonder what I was thinking... I guess it was something like "There are hardly any SPs around here, it's not like anyone's actually going to be affected by this." I failed to foresee that SPs might actually show up and read that stuff (back then there were only two, and everyone thought they were Ns anyway). I never would have said it or gone along with it if I had thought they would.

  6. #56
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    That makes sense to me.


    Yes, yes. I think I know how you feel... especially the "even if it's not directed at me" part.

    I'm honestly a little ashamed to admit that I went along with some of those threads even though part of me probably knew there really wasn't anything that bad about Se... not out of frustration, but because I didn't want to alienate the people who did believe that, draw frustration and accusations onto myself or break up their enjoyment of casting aspersions on the exaggerated image, and because it was a comfortable belief to entertain, considering how clumsy I am with Se situations. I didn't want be the one to draw the attention to myself by pointing out the elephant in the room, I guess.

    Now that I know how it feels... I'm sorry I remained silent and went along with it.

    I don't think theres anything wrong with voicing frustrations about certain traits that people have. I've said this before, somewhere else. Actually, realizing that something bothers you might be the first step to overcoming your irritation and understanding it. As long as you keep an open mind and don't use personal attacks. All the threads that are in frustration of one of my personal traits don't really phase me anymore. Its just people venting.

  7. #57
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    This is a psychology forum after all. I'm glad the rules on venting here are much more lax because of that.


  8. #58
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    There you go, short. Sometimes what bothers me in someone else is a trait that needs some polishing in myself. Or something that I don't understand. Old residue from family of origin stuff. Those gifts that parents give can linger for a long time.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  9. #59
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    That makes sense to me.


    Yes, yes. I think I know how you feel... especially the "even if it's not directed at me" part.

    I'm honestly a little ashamed to admit that I went along with some of those threads even though part of me probably knew there really wasn't anything that bad about Se... not out of frustration, but because I didn't want to alienate the people who did believe that, draw frustration and accusations onto myself or break up their enjoyment of casting aspersions on the exaggerated image, and because it was a comfortable belief to entertain (at least until I was forced to deal with the negative implications of believing it), considering how clumsy I am with Se situations. I didn't want be the one to draw the attention to myself by pointing out the elephant in the room, I guess.

    Now that I know how it feels... I'm sorry I remained silent and went along with it.

    I read some of that stuff now and wonder what I was thinking... I guess it was something like "There are hardly any SPs around here, it's not like anyone's actually going to be affected by this." I failed to foresee that SPs might actually show up and read that stuff. I never would have said it if I had thought they would.
    This is nice to hear, Athenian. We live and learn.

    There were a couple people here who were annoying to me at first with their tiresome trolling and some of them I've gotten to know better and have decided they were not what they were trying to appear at the time. Foolish on their part, but a common mistake for all and I've gone through that stage of figuring myself out as well.

    Some, I think, are young and inexperienced in the social world and need to feel the support of others who are the same in order to feel secure. Maybe they don't realize that they are seeking support in the wrong place and that those who attack are likely to also attack them some day. No wonder there's such a lack of trust for our more aggressive posters!

    Maybe also that we all desire to belong, and if we think we might not, the best defense is a good offense. When in truth it works against us to try to look tough and self-sufficient. For a more experienced person the facade can be easily seen through and calls out feelings of scorn and pity. Not something a "tough" person wants, I'm sure.

    Mob mentality is ugly and stoopid and easy to get caught up in for fear of not belonging. I thought some of those people must be the dumbest people I'd ever come across! But that wasn't the case. I judged them by their facade, not the real them.

    And I have been on the receiving end of going against the group when they are doing something which is wrong in my values system. So I recognize the fear of the inevitable backlash which will usually come.

    But it no longer daunts me. Right is right. It's got to be in line with what you personally believe is right. Not what others think. If you seek to hurt others you're walking a path full of stumbling spots. Time proves that out.

    Doing what my values system tells me is the right thing keeps me solid in my self-identity. Practice makes perfect! (Well. . . Almost.)
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  10. #60
    Member anainani's Avatar
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    Athenian, I don't have a problem with Ni/Ne. If anything, I'm just trying to understand it. I think Intuitives are awesome, there are lots of things that are amazing about N's.
    But yea, I've noticed some negativity towards S's on this site. I don't know why it is so, maybe it could be that some of N's feel misunderstood, or not understood at all by S's. Or N's just don't find anything in common with us. I dunno.

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