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  1. #41
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    i've never really realized that reading into things can be so annoying to some people. i thought it was a preference and nothing more. do you guys think it'll be wiser to be more straight up around S's then? would that put them more at ease?
    The only time it becomes a "problem" is when we're trying to discuss something serious--for example, if a relationship hangs in the balance. That's the time for both of us to be direct.

    When it's just for fun, well, that's up to you. (Where've you been, Animenagai?)


    And remember to look at the post before mine! (by Poki)
    Last edited by Cimarron; 12-11-2008 at 01:46 PM. Reason: be courteous to others
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  2. #42
    Junior Member Mallow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Hey, in this thread, Viv said:
    To me, taking things at face value is actually respecting people. Instead of reading hidden meanings into what people say, I let them speak for themselves, rather than jumping to conclusions or making assumptions. I try to make it clear to people if they want me to know something, they can tell me and I'll take what they say for what it is, and they don't have to think of some clever, mysterious way to say stuff because I don't require that.
    I agree, but my first SO didn't and went nuts when I didn't eagerly attempt to decipher every hint and clue they felt I was supposed to.
    I just generally assumed that if something was important enough to be a "problem" that it might occur to them to just "say what it was that was bothering them" rather than play an interminable game of "Guess what I'm Thinking; Guess What I'm Feeling and guess what you did or didn't do to cause it".
    To me it was just a guessing game until I realized the high cost of guessing incorrectly and then I'd just tell them to "Say it or forget it" because you get too sore when I don't guess it right, which, appropriately led to the blessed demise of that fiasco.

    I think people should actually read and comprehend the lines before they start trying to read between the lines and come up with a pile of crap that needs to be shoveled off when all that was there originally was a fly speck to be wiped away.

    Now I'm with someone who just says what they feel or think and becomes as irritated with people that expect her to have ESP as I do.
    We may seem simple and unsophisticated to the more clairvoyant types but it works for us and we're not changing it.

    So there...

  3. #43
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    I'm guilty of reading into things too much. For instance, I went to my store yesterday to drop something off and my supervisor stopped to talk to me. She started talking to me about registers having problems, mistakes with people's sales, and not trying to fix problems without calling a manager. She asked me if I did things like that, but when I asked her if she was saying this to me because something that happened, she said, "NO! I'm just telling this to everyone."

    Each time she brought up another topic, I asked if it was in response to a situation that came up. She kept getting annoyed because I'd ask her *why* she was telling me this other than just as a "warning." I found out she was just giving this warning to each associate. The whole time, I was just wondering, "What's the point? What caused this? Is there something we can do other than just 'be more careful'? Can't I summarize everything you just said in 10 minutes with 2 sentences?"


  4. #44
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    To me, taking things at face value is actually respecting people. Instead of reading hidden meanings into what people say, I let them speak for themselves, rather than jumping to conclusions or making assumptions. I try to make it clear to people if they want me to know something, they can tell me and I'll take what they say for what it is, and they don't have to think of some clever, mysterious way to say stuff because I don't require that.
    Or said another way, intuitive types are prone to making assumptions and reading between the lines of that which was not meant. Is it no wonder that Se dominant types are called "realists"? To paraphrase one author on type, "For a Se type, a primrose down by the water is merely a primrose." The Se function allows us to cut to the chase and filter all unnecessary information.

    Actually contrary to this assertion, I know SJs who get caught up as well in what I call "going down a garden path" in trying to reach a conclusion because they get caught up in too much detail or lose sight of the immediate situation. Nevertheless intuitive types read between the lines or worse, review some of the threads and count how long it takes before an intuitive gets off topic. I think that as a Se type if I inquire I want an answer and not the babbling of inconsistent thoughts or wondering to a different topic.

  5. #45
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I hate when I say something that I mean and others try to look into what I said and interpret it. It usually ends up in me being pissed off. I feel like some people can't speak English.

    Other person: Something wrong?
    Me: I'm tired and my back hurts.
    (silence)
    other person: whats bothering you?
    me: i'm tired and my back hurts.
    (silence, I stretch my back)
    other person: was it something I said? Did something happen?
    me: NO. I'M TIRED AND MY BACK HURTS.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I hate when I say something that I mean and others try to look into what I said and interpret it. It usually ends up in me being pissed off. I feel like some people can't speak English.

    Other person: Something wrong?
    Me: I'm tired and my back hurts.
    (silence)
    other person: whats bothering you?
    me: i'm tired and my back hurts.
    (silence, I stretch my back)
    other person: was it something I said? Did something happen?
    me: NO. I'M TIRED AND MY BACK HURTS.
    hahah I used to have this problem with someone I used to work with..they would always ask me whats wrong and then if I would give them a simple "i'm fine" without my whole life story they'd tell everyone who I was working with that I was in a bad mood...which then puts you in a bad mood because you have 50 people coming up and asking you what's wrong lol...thankfully I don't work in an office anymore

  7. #47
    Senior Member Pancreas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRT View Post
    hahah I used to have this problem with someone I used to work with..they would always ask me whats wrong and then if I would give them a simple "i'm fine" without my whole life story they'd tell everyone who I was working with that I was in a bad mood...which then puts you in a bad mood because you have 50 people coming up and asking you what's wrong lol...thankfully I don't work in an office anymore
    I hate that. I tend to frown when I’m concentrating so I get the “why are you so grumpy?” a lot. Every time I think this’ll be the time when “well, I’m not grumpy” will actually be interpreted as “well, I’m not grumpy”. Every time I’m wrong.

    I tend to make statements that I think will be informative, or ask questions to gain information, that are interpreted incorrectly. Apparently:
    “When are we having lunch?” = “Why is lunch not here yet? I’m hungry, damn it. I hate you this is all your fault.”
    “There’s no towels left” = “Why are there no towels left????!!! You should have at least five clean towels at all times. I hate you, this is all your fault.”
    “What’s the answer to question three?” = “I have no idea what question three is asking me to do, nor any comprehension whatsoever of questions 1-6, in fact, so could you please explain everything from the beginning in really simple terms? (I hate you, this is all your fault.)”

    I don’t mind so much if people read into what I say unless they’re consistently wrong, or persistent in their incorrect conclusions.

    I don’t like it when people expect me to read between the lines. I’m more likely to pick up on the body language and then ask outright (or ignore, depending on my mood/patience with the whole thing) what they want.

  8. #48
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post

    To me, taking things at face value is actually respecting people. Instead of reading hidden meanings into what people say, I let them speak for themselves, rather than jumping to conclusions or making assumptions. I try to make it clear to people if they want me to know something, they can tell me and I'll take what they say for what it is, and they don't have to think of some clever, mysterious way to say stuff because I don't require that.
    Exactly. Respect that either they've told you the truth or they don't want you to hear the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    . Having a conversation with someone who never directly says what they're thinking or feeling can be exhausting, especially if I make a wrong guess and I get blamed for misreading their minds. I jsut sometimes want to ask people like this if it would kill them to just say what they mean right out front, especially if I'm not in the mood for guessing games. (And unlike the responders on the NF thread, I'm not going around claiming that everyone in my life whom I've identified as an NF or an NT is annoying like that.)
    Terribly exhausting!

    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    Ha. Awesome.
    What about hurt feelings? Is that an issue? Sometimes when I'm dealing with SFPs and SFJs who, like you, don't like to search through lots of unspoken communication, I worry about hurting their feelings. Sometimes when people want me to be more direct, it almost seems like that is not what they want at all if the direct statement is unkind.
    Being direct does not equal being unkind. You can just say things in a nicer way using better wording that still clearly gets your point across.

    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    The older I get and the more I understand people, I don't mind being taken at face value but I cannot stand is when someone takes what is on the surface and refuses to alter their views when given further information.

    Example I am deep in thought over something, distracted.

    "WHy are you so sad today?"
    "I'm not sad, just preoccupied with something."
    "Well, you look sad."
    "Well, I am not, I am fine. Just thinking about something."
    "You look sad, cheer up!"

    and on and on!

    I don't mind other people wanting me to spell out my needs or wants, what I don't like is when they won't accept what I am saying because they cannot imagine that anyone would have a different perspective or reaction than they do.
    Yea, thats just dumb. That's not taking things at face-value at all, actually. The person (real or made up) missed the part when you said you were preoccupied with something.

    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    this is quite interesting. a lot of times i feel that my SFP friends were better than me at reading people, but i guess they can be reading signs, while i was reading vibes. one of my friends is a psych major too, so i guess he can deviate from the norm .

    i've never really realized that reading into things can be so annoying to some people. i thought it was a preference and nothing more. do you guys think it'll be wiser to be more straight up around S's then? would that put them more at ease?
    Yes, saying what you mean, or atleast giving enough information can make us feel more at ease. You don't have to spell everything out for us either. (atleast not for me). But a totally vague zero-information conversation based on vibes, vague statements and visual cues is extremely annoying. Its not that we can't read your cues or your vibes. actually I think we are quite good at it, since we're so observant. It just can be tiring when the entire conversation could have moved forward faster if you had just said what you meant in the first place.

  9. #49
    Member anainani's Avatar
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    Reading from this thread, I still don't really understand what NF's/NT's mean when they say that SP's take things at face value too much. What is it exactly that we don't pick up on? Is it the non-verbal cues, feelings? Because I am quite good at picking up on those. It's actually one thing I consider myself really good at. Especially with people I know well, I'm quite good at telling the mood, feelings. I always keep an open mind on everything, and I could never claim that I know what someone is exactly feeling/thinking/what's going on with them , but I do pick up on the overall moods/vibes. I dont jump to conclusions or anything, and I just ask them. If they tell me, they tell me, if not, not. I won't bother them with it. Again, if I feel like they kinda want to be bothered a little bit, I will.
    If they tell me that nothing's wrong, I'll just have to take their word for it, even if it doesn't feel like nothing's wrong. I just tell them if they want to talk about something, they can. If something's wrong, usually people come and talk to me at some point later on.
    All this sounds kinda fruity I guess I guess I can get annoying with all the feelingy stuff, but no one's complained.

    I like bluntness and when people are straightforward. It's just sometimes tiring for me and unnecessary, from my point of view, to say what you say but don't really mean, and even though you kind of mean it, you really don't, but you want me to know that you don't really mean it, so that I'd know what it ws that you didn't mean, and figure out what it was that you really meant in the first place.

    Sure, I understand, it's interesting and very pleasurable for people. It is for me too, once in a while. I usually try to understand the in-between the lines stuff, although it probably might take me some more time than for intuitives.
    I think everyone would want to be understood without having to explain things, or just by saying one sentence. Trust me, I wish it was like that, because I'm not the best talker, and I don't like to talk about my feelings/deep thoughts that much, I'd rather prefer to just feel/think. But it's just not possible to know what someone thinks/feels exactly. Even if you think you do, you can't know it completely unless they tell you. I don't know how a very developed intuition works. I'm sure it can be very accurate, but you still need to find out for sure through some communication means, don't you?

    So, what is it excactly that we don't pick up on? Is it metaphor, sarcasm, hidden meanings (like why things are the way they are, refusing to look further beyond the facts), feelings, non-verbal cues, smart and pretentious vocabulary?
    I'm just interested.

  10. #50
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    I find that some types just assume too much and therefore don't pay enough attention to the subtle signals. My ENTJ husband for example. Perfect example - last night we flew home from Florida and there was an older lady in the aisle seat, my husband in the middle, and I had the window seat. This lady talked a lot about everything, asked my husband a million questions and he loved the conversation. Meanwhile I had my head buried in a book and had only said a polite hello to her. He kept whispering to me 'why are you being so rude?' I said that I was just interested in my book. The lady asked eventually asked for his business card and as we were landing wanted him to attend some sort of tele-conference for her business which was Amway(or something similar). SUCKER!!! I would have had my guard up to her a long time ago but he just made the assumption that she was just a lonely old lady. baa haa haa

    So assumptions are often wrong, therefore what you read into it - wrong. Meanwhile I read the signals that I see.

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