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  1. #31
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    And lastly, the SPs:
    These are some reasons that Keirsey and Berens says that SPs have problems:
    The focus on the present associated with the Artisan pattern can lead to people expressing this temperament repeating their mistakes:

    Since [people expressing Artisan] do not reflect very much on their errors or analyse their mistakes to any great extent, it is difficult for them to learn from their errors, and so they can become caught in a loop, repeating their mistakes.

    When balanced, and hence confident, the person expressing Artisan can be the life of the party, enjoying life to its fullest but when out of balance, the compulsive indulgence in hedonistic pleasures alcohol, drugs, gambling as well as anything that gives a solid hit of adrenalin can place such people in psychological or even physical danger.

    Their essential need for the freedom to orchestrate their own actions can make it difficult to others to render aid.

  2. #32
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    These are some reasons that Keirsey and Berens says that SPs have problems:
    Their essential need for the freedom to orchestrate their own actions can make it difficult to others to render aid
    This is why I distance myself from my mother and younger brother. They have no balance and attempts to help only make the situation worse, never mind dragging you into the center of the stupidity.

    On the other hand, my one uncle and my youngest brother are balanced or approaching balanced and they're awesome to be around.

  3. #33
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    This is why I distance myself from my mother and younger brother. They have no balance and attempts to help only make the situation worse, never mind dragging you into the center of the stupidity.

    On the other hand, my one uncle and my youngest brother are balanced or approaching balanced and they're awesome to be around.
    I think what they're attempting to convey is the SP-Improviser's essential need for freedom to do their own thing, similar to the NT-Theorists' need to feel competent by being independent. Where NTs need competence, SPs need freedom, but both are highly independent to a fault.

  4. #34
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    I think what they're attempting to convey is the SP-Improviser's essential need for freedom to do their own thing, similar to the NT-Theorists' need to feel competent by being independent. Where NTs need competence, SPs need freedom, but both are highly independent to a fault.
    Yes -- they can both look similar in terms of "independence," but the underlying motivations are different.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by indigo2020 View Post
    I know an ESTP and you are describing his sucky qualities very very well, which is not to say he does not have some good qualities (but we are not talking about good qualities right now are we) ?

    I also know 2 ISTP's (one man and one woman) and I was thinking of both of them (they have very similar modes) earlier when I wrote the top three things I think sucks about them. I know them very well since one is my ex-husband and one is my best friend who I love but who also drives me bonkers at times.
    What's wrong with treating women like a piece of meat? Come on, you ladies know you like being physically pushed around in bed.

  6. #36
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yomama99 View Post
    What's wrong with treating women like a piece of meat? Come on, you ladies know you like being physically pushed around in bed.
    I like that idea so much I think I'd want to rip off the guy's testicles and shove them up his nostrils.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yomama99 View Post
    What's wrong with treating women like a piece of meat? Come on, you ladies know you like being physically pushed around in bed.
    uh, no.

  8. #38
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yomama99 View Post
    What's wrong with treating women like a piece of meat? Come on, you ladies know you like being physically pushed around in bed.
    We need more girls around here to keep you more properly occupied...

  9. #39
    Senior Member 563 740's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    These are some reasons that Keirsey and Berens says that SPs have problems:
    1. They never learn from their mistakes.

    2. They never learn from their mistakes.

    3. THEY NEVER LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKES!!!

    Honestly, everything else is this thread is minor for me compared to that. It's damn-near appalling to see them doing the same thing over and over again. It's so in contrast to my NT "Self-diagnosis & Trouble-shooting" functions that there's just no way to wrap my head around it. I pretty much quit my last job because I couldn't deal with my ESTP boss's slip-ups anymore.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Their temperament is about as reasonable as genocide.
    And who says genocide is unreasonable? It's a very efficient way of saying, "We don't want your kind here!"

    Genocide isn't unreasonable, it gets things done!

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