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  1. #1
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Default Your Experiences with ESTPs

    Now that we have an ESTP president(-elect) in the US (even if you don't claim him to be your president), I thought it would be a good time to start an ESTP thread.

    One common ploy I've seen with the ESTP is to play a game I call Let's Make A Deal. You give them an inch and they try to take a mile. And then there's the bargaining for advantage...

    Although I have officially typed my oldest step-daughter as an ESFP, she definitely has ESTP moments (and might technically be an ESXP). You can tell because of the Ti-auxiliary that comes out at times. It doesn't arise as an interest in pursuing logic but in finding a flaw in some "contract," rule, or arrangement made with her. Finding a flaw is, of course, always supposed to be to her advantage.

    It's all about The Art Of The Deal. If you can lie to your advantage, then so be it. If you can claim that you "forgot" and get away with it, then so be it. As Ti functions (or Thinking in general functions), there is no moral to anything. With Se at the fore, we're talking about purely material gain, with amoral logic acting as co-pilot attempting to tear apart your arguments in order to get ahead in the game.

    The ESTP is great at making sense out of the world, and more, making sure that the sense remains. Nothing beyond that sense of how the world works is ever allowed inside. If something occurs outside of this subjective reasoning, they will immediately ask "Why?"

    The ESTP is great at self-promotion, and will extend this to others if it is to their advantage. Boxing promoter Don King is an excellent example.

    ESTPs will do or say anything to win, and are extremely competitive. If they don't think they can win, they won't play. When I was growing up, an ESTP friend of mine used to play the original Battleship game with me, not the electronic version. I was calling out hits and he was claiming they were misses. I know because my mother caught him red-handed. He would mark playing cards by bending the corners, which is probably why he preferred that we play cards at his house instead of mine.

    And the deal-making. Always making deals. But deeper than that is an innate ability to read others. If the ESTP knows what drives you, then that can be used to advantage. Knowing something that you like, the ESTP will often try to take advantage of that in order to acquire something for themselves.

    The ESTP is a gambling type. ESTPs are so addicted to gambling that, while riding a train through a rainstorm, they will compete with each other to see whose raindrop will reach the bottom of a window first.

    The ESTP is of course extremely observant, but only because they know what to look for beforehand. Another ESTP friend had a knack for finding money in taverns or wherever people are likely to drop it. The art of the deal can easily become the art of conning, and this has given the ESTP type a bad rap as a thief and/or con artist. But every type has its criminal side.

    If the ESTP manages to acquire substantial material wealth, then generosity becomes a new trait. The ESTP can be quite magnanimous, although it is easy to see that giving to charity can also be used to certain advantage.

    They are not usually an unfriendly type. They are not directly controlling, but they are usually indirectly controlling. Instead of forcing you through threat of violence, which makes him an enemy, the all-mighty dollar makes you his friend.
    "If you try to build something that is idiot-proof, the universe will build a better idiot."
    I'm an extrovert trapped within an introverted soul.
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  2. #2
    Dope& diamonds. Dyslexxie's Avatar
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    ESTP reporting in on this awesome post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    They are not usually an unfriendly type. They are not directly controlling, but they are usually indirectly controlling. Instead of forcing you through threat of violence, which makes him an enemy, the all-mighty dollar makes you his friend.
    This bit made me laugh really hard because it's very true. I find ESTPs have this inability to value the intangible of what they offer to people (support, understanding, etc.) so they resort to something that's easy for them to grasp and measure: stuff.

    I would also argue ESTPs have a tougher time really committing to relationships unless they deem the relationship productive. Maybe it's just me, but it's a lot harder for me to have friends for the sake of just having someone, or to go hang out and do nothing. I need activity that leads to something, even if it's something minor like learning something new, brainstorming, or talking ideas. I'm not really a feelings person (even though I get feelings, but I find focusing on them to be fairly unproductive) so I find I lose focus in relationships that are very demanding of my emotional support. I'm only a good shoulder to cry on for so long, and unless the person actually does something proactive to help themselves out of the situation, I begin to feel drained and annoyed. I also find it's easier for me to bounce back from an emotionally traumatic even than most due to the ability to rationalize and compartmentalize feelings. Again, this could just be more of a "me" thing instead of an ESTP thing but I had to mention it in regards to the "not unfriendly" bit.

    A defining trait for ESTPs (and the easiest way to spot them IMO) is their impatience. They talk fast, move fast, and seem to have these high bursts of energy where they're incredibly enthusiastic and eager to get everything done RIGHT NOW. Their Se also becomes quite evident in conversation when the focus is on theory and idealization without application. Ti makes them very critical but they can only talk about ideas so long before they either move into action, or stop paying attention because the idea is not something they can jump into head first. An ESTP without a level of action taking is generally a very bored ESTP and can sometimes lead to irritability. This is a really good description of their Se:

    SeTi’s need a certain level of impulsiveness in life to be happy. While they don’t absolutely abhor schedules, it does get irritating for them when a schedule becomes more important than doing the things a schedule is supposed to allow time for. They also might break the rules from time to time, but not necessarily to rebel or make a point. They simply don’t think in terms of rules and procedures. Their focus is on actions that will accomplish specific things.

    Rules typically restrict people to doing a certain thing in a certain limited way, and SeTi’s tend to just want results immediately, without being restricted to achieving their goals in a predetermined way. They have a hard time not moving to action right away. They aren’t likely to be against rules in principle, but when the rules become more important than the desired outcome, then rules start to seem really ridiculous and counterproductive them.

    SeTi’s are excited about the here and now of what is going on around them. They are very present, and might find it difficult to plan far into the future. They are so fully present in the moment that the current situation they find themselves in feels like it’s their whole world. If you were to ask an SeTi what their life is like, they may tell you about their current circumstances rather than the big picture.

    However, this doesn’t mean they aren’t able to process things that aren’t immediately apparent to them. They are very interested in figuring things out on a deeper level - thinking about what “is”, and what makes it that way. The difference between an SeTi and similar, more introspective types, is that SeTi’s don’t want to have to stop and take their time to consider and analyze things, they prefer figuring things out in the midst of action, as they go. Sitting down to quietly study for a driving test is far less effective for this type than getting behind the wheel and actually practicing and figuring out how the car works as they go. They crave a hands-on approach.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "I would also argue ESTPs have a tougher time really committing to relationships unless they deem the relationship productive. Maybe it's just me, but it's a lot harder for me to have friends for the sake of just having someone, or to go hang out and do nothing. I need activity that leads to something,"

    That was Chuck all the way. His former friend, he said, became a Christian, and thus he no longer liked to do the fun stuff (such as stomping earthworms in mud puddles). It's not that they weren't friends, but they didn't hang out so much any more. And so I became the chosen one.

    I must say that Chuck got me out of the house a lot and away from my books, which was good. But he wasn't the best to have around socially because he had a bad side. So I acquired a bad rep simply by hanging around with him.

    For example, Chuck could sometimes be a prankster, but only if he was unhappy with someone. So one day at a local restaurant/tavern he put some pepper in the top of a salt shaker where the pepper couldn't be seen. He unwisely did this at the table we were both sitting at. The next customer who sat there demanded a new hamburger because he accidentally poured pepper on it when he wanted salt. After that, it really wasn't a good place for me to go to anymore although I didn't do anything. I just happened to be sitting at the same table with Chuck.

    That's the little tavern/restaurant in the middle of the picture. There was a sign with "poker in the rear" written on it.

    "If you try to build something that is idiot-proof, the universe will build a better idiot."
    I'm an extrovert trapped within an introverted soul.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Talk about the art of the deal. Chuck managed to acquire a job at a newspaper as a paperboy with a route. As part of a contest, he was to offer non-customers deals to establish new customers. The deal was something like 3 free months for a subscription. But some customers simply won't go for it, because they don't like the liberal slant of the paper, or for whatever reason.

    As a result, Chuck began offering them deals that were not authorized by the newspaper. That's when Let's Make A Deal begins. He would offer them 6 months, 7 months, a year of free papers in order to gain the subscription. When Chuck got fired, the newspaper found itself holding the bag for several unauthorized deals for free newspapers. And it was a daily newspaper, so that's 365 free papers with no guarantee that the new customer will stay subscribed after the deal runs out.
    "If you try to build something that is idiot-proof, the universe will build a better idiot."
    I'm an extrovert trapped within an introverted soul.
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  5. #5
    Dope& diamonds. Dyslexxie's Avatar
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    @@Mal12345 damn, that's fair. I find we do have a "let's fuck with people" attitude a lot of the time just because we want to test them. I often find myself disagreeing with others just because I enjoy being contrarian and not because I necessarily disagree with people. A friend of mine recently told me he sometimes votes for a party he might not even like just to counter someone else's vote which is a pretty ESTP thing to do IMO.

    I wouldn't say all of us are about shady deals like in your example, but we're definitely motivated by persuading and getting people on our side. We don't need to be liked, we just want people to respect us and what we have to offer/say, hence why we excel in sales.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member erg's Avatar
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    They always want to screw me, either literally or figuratively.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslexxie View Post
    @@Mal12345 damn, that's fair. I find we do have a "let's fuck with people" attitude a lot of the time just because we want to test them. I often find myself disagreeing with others just because I enjoy being contrarian and not because I necessarily disagree with people. A friend of mine recently told me he sometimes votes for a party he might not even like just to counter someone else's vote which is a pretty ESTP thing to do IMO.

    I wouldn't say all of us are about shady deals like in your example, but we're definitely motivated by persuading and getting people on our side. We don't need to be liked, we just want people to respect us and what we have to offer/say, hence why we excel in sales.
    Chuck wasn't terribly bright and I'm not saying he is typical ESTP as far as intelligence or morals. My intent is to point out two characteristics: "Let's Make A Deal" and "Prankster." These can be good or bad traits, depending. Pranks can be funny or they can be hurtful.
    "If you try to build something that is idiot-proof, the universe will build a better idiot."
    I'm an extrovert trapped within an introverted soul.
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  8. #8
    Dope& diamonds. Dyslexxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erg View Post
    They always want to screw me, either literally or figuratively.
    ESTPs: if they aren't fucking something or someone they're gonna be miserable.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Ursa's Avatar
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    My experience has been a mixed bag, just like with every MBTI type.

    I love the ESTPs who know how to be adventurous and have fun without hurting others. Or breaking promises. Those ESTPs are the people I have and will continue to want in my social circle.
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  10. #10
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    A lot of this rings true for my two ESTP friends. Scruples are another matter and vary with maturity. @Dyslexxie said something that was spot on. Impatience. Moving fast, action. They don't care for sitting still.
    @Mal12345 Have you done one for ISTP's yet? This is like an MBTI roast and you're the MC.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance
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