[SP] Are SPs truly reckless hedonists?

[alicia91]

Meanwhile, here I am on a Thursday morning with no clean socks for work. So, do I go foot commando or do I put on dirty socks after my shower? These are the kind of dilemmas an SP faces in life

Throw them into the dryer with a Bounce sheet. It's called cheap dry-cleaning

Sorry, I'm going to read the rest of the thread tomorrow. Sounds like an interesting conversation.

 

[Angry Ayrab]

It can be awkward. (I've even had that with some people who view my art -- should I tell them that I really just felt like drawing tree branches because sometimes drawing tree branches is fun, or should I let them think it's got layers of profound depth to it?)

lmfao... nice.

 

[6sticks]

I wouldn't consider myself reckless... though most people would. To other people it seems like I take a lot of risks but I only take them because I know I can make it work. I definitely relate to descriptions about thriving on the rush of risk-taking and pushing my skills to the limit. I see life as a period of time where I can do whatever the hell I want until I die. There's nothing immoral about the pursuit of happiness.

 

[Sunshine]

Oh gawd I hate that. People are always automatically assuming I'm shallow just because I'm not serious all the time and I actually like to joke around and have things be light hearted sometimes.

 

[Kayin]

Oh gawd I hate that. People are always automatically assuming I'm shallow just because I'm not serious all the time and I actually like to joke around and have things be light hearted sometimes.

ahaha same, I always tell people to relax.....I just don't the big deal with certain things.

 

[sarah]

lmfao... nice.

I should have qualified what I wrote to say that only some iNtuitive-preferring people do that with my art, and that my (INFJ) mother tends to be more the type who looks for depth in everything. Mom will lose interest very quickly with anything that obviously has no depth to it.

Actually, this may not be a very good indicator of type, now that I think of it. My ENFJ husband sometimes says ridiculous things in order to tease my INFJ mother, because he knows she'll take it very seriously. Mind you, they get along fabulously, so it's not done out of meanness).

Actually, I have an SJ friend who believes all art is "supposed" to be full of symbolic meaning, which bothers him because he's not sure what exactly he's supposed to be to be looking for. He's said this makes him feel nervous whenever artistic people talk about their work or want to show him what they've done. I've tried to convince him that it's okay to just comment on what you see rather than trying to decipher what's going on in the artist's brain.

Sarah

 

[Angry Ayrab]

Actually, I have an SJ friend who believes all art is "supposed" to be full of symbolic meaning, which bothers him because he's not sure what exactly he's supposed to be to be looking for. He's said this makes him feel nervous whenever artistic people talk about their work or want to show him what they've done. I've tried to convince him that it's okay to just comment on what you see rather than trying to decipher what's going on in the artist's brain.

Are you sure I am not your SJ friend?

My main problem isn't that I can't come up with some symbolism, it's just that my Ne goes rampant and comes up with 3000^infinity possibilities... well more like 2^(3*e) possibilities for whatever it may be I am analyzing... so in hopes of not sounding like a douche i start making wise cracks and everyone starts laughing and I die a little inside while I smile back.

 

[sarah]

I wouldn't consider myself reckless... though most people would. To other people it seems like I take a lot of risks but I only take them because I know I can make it work. I definitely relate to descriptions about thriving on the rush of risk-taking and pushing my skills to the limit. I see life as a period of time where I can do whatever the hell I want until I die. There's nothing immoral about the pursuit of happiness.

Yeah. Exactly! SPs tend to be quick assessors of situations, and what looks like a scary situation to others may be something that completely falls in line with what we wanted to do anyway, and we're good at coming to an agreement with ourselves that if we do what we intend do and if the worst happen, we can deal with the results of that.

Actually, if an activity isn't likely to give me brain damage or break my spinal cord, then what's all the fuss about? Someone actually once told me that my wearing an attractive vintage hat to a wedding "took real guts" and that they would love to do that but were too afraid. Guts? To wear a hat? Does it take guts to "risk" the surprised stares of people who aren't used to looking at anything that you can't buy at Macy's this season? Weird.

Sarah

 

[mlittrell]

Actually, I have an SJ friend who believes all art is "supposed" to be full of symbolic meaning, which bothers him because he's not sure what exactly he's supposed to be to be looking for.

i dont know if someone posted this before but that is the big difference between Si and Se (or the rest of the functions for that matter). I tend to look for depth in painting but over all i want meaning or some point to the painting or whatever the art happens to be. at least my favorite art. i really appriciate all forms of art, its peoples way of expressing themselves, and i really respect that

 

[sarah]

See, I've actually kinda enjoyed being like the "token SP" on this forum. There's some others but over the last few months I've been the most active poster among them, so it kinda felt that way. And I actually got a lot of appreciation for what I brought to the board, but the funny thing is that a few members have said things to me that kinda translate to "okay, we get it. Now stop being so SP." And I'm like "no, you DON'T get it. I'm not putting on an act, I'm just being me." And it's like that still kinda blows their mind a little.

Well, Jeffster, you seem to have the ability to be both lighthearted and thoughtful at the same time -- that's really cool. I wish I could be more like that. I tend to get ultra serious whenever I'm around the serious people in order to accomodate their feelings.

I'd love to be the sort of person who can think up a snappy, witty comeback anytime she wants to, but that only hapens occasionally - and usually when I'm not even trying to be entertaining.

Sarah

 

[sarah]

@ sarah

Please stay and continue to post. You're worth your weight in gold! I love your definition of hedonism, it's the only way to live.

Wow, thanks for the compliment and the welcome.

 

["?"]

I responded to a thread started this week titled STs & SFs. I have added my two cents in Keirsey’s failing to be consistent with his work when describing SPs individually. He seemed to have grouped even the introverted SPs by considering the auxiliary whereas he considered the dominant cognitive function with the other types. This is expounded upon more from this Teamtechnology article.

 

[Dali]

Oh my god, I know that weird look! You say something silly and throwaway that's meant just for a quick laugh, but they stand there trying to figure out the implications of what it ll means. It can be awkward. (I've even had that with some people who view my art -- should I tell them that I really just felt like drawing tree branches because sometimes drawing tree branches is fun, or should I let them think it's got layers of profound depth to it?)

I just came back from 3 days of backpacking and I chose one of the most incompatible possible type to travel with. He created a run of the mill touristy itinerary and was adamant about sticking to it, planned travel times down to the last minute and almost rushed through sights. I on the other hand was very relaxed and taking each day as it came. I drove the poor ISTJ crazy and vice versa. Anyway, the thing was, I did things... or should I just say, I was me... and he wanted to know why I did this like this... or why I had said that... or why... you get the drift.

It was a similar situation the first time I traveled with my closest pal (also an ISTJ) a few months after we had just met. But nowadays, we've kinda 'trained' each other; he's loosened up in some areas and I've gotten a bit more 'J' where it matters.

Thanks for the detailed reply on your ENFJ; it's almost freaky because I see so many of those same qualities in 'my' ENFJ and, at the same time, I've realised some stuff ('common' sense...etc) is just due to how she's wired and I've got to be more accepting of that.

You're lucky that your mum's an NFJ too and they get along. I have the feeling that mine is going to clash with my ISFJ mum in the worst way... almost dreading when (or should I say, if) it gets to part where I introduce them to each other.

 

[Angry Ayrab]

I just came back from 3 days of backpacking and I chose one of the most incompatible possible type to travel with. He created a run of the mill touristy itinerary and was adamant about sticking to it, planned travel times down to the last minute and almost rushed through sights. I on the other hand was very relaxed and taking each day as it came. I drove the poor ISTJ crazy and vice versa. Anyway, the thing was, I did things... or should I just say, I was me... and he wanted to know why I did this like this... or why I had said that... or why... you get the drift.

It was a similar situation the first time I traveled with my closest pal (also an ISTJ) a few months after we had just met. But nowadays, we've kinda 'trained' each other; he's loosened up in some areas and I've gotten a bit more 'J' where it matters.

Thanks for the detailed reply on your ENFJ; it's almost freaky because I see so many of those same qualities in 'my' ENFJ and, at the same time, I've realised some stuff ('common' sense...etc) is just due to how she's wired and I've got to be more accepting of that.

You're lucky that your mum's an NFJ too and they get along. I have the feeling that mine is going to clash with my ISFJ mum in the worst way... almost dreading when (or should I say, if) it gets to part where I introduce them to each other.

My close ISTJ friend and I planned a large camping trip together and by the end of the planning we were going to shoot each other... God damn... talk about micro manegment... his head was so into the details of who is getting salt and pepper that he forgot about not having cars... I swear... I was going to kill him. When we arrived their and got out of our repective vehicles, I stampped up to him... and said listen stay outa my way for the next three days, and I will stay out yours... he got pissed that i came up with that first and he was like... NO... YOU STAY OUTTA MY WAY. Lol

Anyway... needless to say, I have picked up many gross J habits and he has learned to chillax after that.

I feel you buddy.

 

[Dali]

My close ISTJ friend and I planned a large camping trip together and by the end of the planning we were going to shoot each other... God damn... talk about micro manegment... his head was so into the details of who is getting salt and pepper that he forgot about not having cars... I swear... I was going to kill him. When we arrived their and got out of our repective vehicles, I stampped up to him... and said listen stay outa my way for the next three days, and I will stay out yours... he got pissed that i came up with that first and he was like... NO... YOU STAY OUTTA MY WAY. Lol

Anyway... needless to say, I have picked up many gross J habits and he has learned to chillax after that.

I feel you buddy.

Hahahaha!

I fear it would have come to that for me too if we were together ONE more day. I was this close to snapping.

 

[sarah]

I responded to a thread started this week titled STs & SFs. I have added my two cents in Keirsey’s failing to be consistent with his work when describing SPs individually. He seemed to have grouped even the introverted SPs by considering the auxiliary whereas he considered the dominant cognitive function with the other types. This is expounded upon more from this Teamtechnology article.

Yeah, it's odd that Keirsey is a behaviorist who claims to be only interested in observable behavior patterns, and yet, he does end up making quite a lot of assumptions about the reasons behind what people do, including what people are --or aren't-- supposedly thinking.

I've seen Fi equated with the NF temperament more times than I can remember. Ditto with Ti and the Rational temperament. That's too bad, because understanding those functions apart from temperament really helps explain why ISFPs and ISTPs are the way we are.

By the way, I know I criticize David Keirsey a lot, but on the other hand I respect him for what he says about intelligence being "doing things well under varying circumstances." I'm a big fan of Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences, and I believe that everybody in this world is dumb in some ways and brilliant in other ways, and that the key to appreciating people is to find out what ways they're smart in. So kudos to him for that.

Sarah

 

["?"]

Yeah, it's odd that Keirsey is a behaviorist who claims to be only interested in observable behavior patterns, and yet, he does end up making quite a lot of assumptions about the reasons behind what people do, including what people are --or aren't-- supposedly thinking.

I've seen Fi equated with the NF temperament more times than I can remember. Ditto with Ti and the Rational temperament. That's too bad, because understanding those functions apart from temperament really helps explain why ISFPs and ISTPs are the way we are.

By the way, I know I criticize David Keirsey a lot, but on the other hand I respect him for what he says about intelligence being "doing things well under varying circumstances." I'm a big fan of Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences, and I believe that everybody in this world is dumb in some ways and brilliant in other ways, and that the key to appreciating people is to find out what ways they're smart in. So kudos to him for that.

Your writing style and knowledge about type seemed quite familiar until I realized it's Sarah from 16types. I then read your reference to being a Librarian a knew that it was you. Welcome to the group. I have bragged on your intellect to others. Folks this lady is gifted and insightful. You will learn so much from her.

 

[Jeffster]

Yeah, it's odd that Keirsey is a behaviorist who claims to be only interested in observable behavior patterns, and yet, he does end up making quite a lot of assumptions about the reasons behind what people do, including what people are --or aren't-- supposedly thinking.

I've seen Fi equated with the NF temperament more times than I can remember. Ditto with Ti and the Rational temperament. That's too bad, because understanding those functions apart from temperament really helps explain why ISFPs and ISTPs are the way we are.

By the way, I know I criticize David Keirsey a lot, but on the other hand I respect him for what he says about intelligence being "doing things well under varying circumstances." I'm a big fan of Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences, and I believe that everybody in this world is dumb in some ways and brilliant in other ways, and that the key to appreciating people is to find out what ways they're smart in. So kudos to him for that.

Sarah

Yeah, I agree with all of that! And the function stuff was so enlightening when added to (not replacing) Keirsey's descriptions, because you can kinda fill in the holes. It became clear why my mom thought I was INFP, because I seem to fit better with the description of the "Idealist child" vs. the "Artisan child." Reason being as a child especially, the "Fi" is all I ever showed to the people who didn't break through my shell. For most people, there would be no way to know that it was "Se" right there bubbling under the surface, and not "Ne." Now as I look back on my behavior as a child, a teenager, and a young adult, I can actually point out the differences to my mom between me and an INFP, based on the entirely different way that our "Fi" is...actualized (<---not sure that's the right word, but something like that. )

 

[sarah]

Your writing style and knowledge about type seemed quite familiar until I realized it's Sarah from 16types. I then read your reference to being a Librarian a knew that it was you. Welcome to the group. I have bragged on your intellect to others. Folks this lady is gifted and insightful. You will learn so much from her.

What a huge compliment! Yep, I'm that same person. Thank you, ? --- that really makes my day.

 

[sarah]

Yeah, I agree with all of that! And the function stuff was so enlightening when added to (not replacing) Keirsey's descriptions, because you can kinda fill in the holes. It became clear why my mom thought I was INFP, because I seem to fit better with the description of the "Idealist child" vs. the "Artisan child." Reason being as a child especially, the "Fi" is all I ever showed to the people who didn't break through my shell. For most people, there would be no way to know that it was "Se" right there bubbling under the surface, and not "Ne." Now as I look back on my behavior as a child, a teenager, and a young adult, I can actually point out the differences to my mom between me and an INFP, based on the entirely different way that our "Fi" is...actualized (<---not sure that's the right word, but something like that. )

I am the same way!!! Thank you, Jeffster, this really helps me finally feel certain I've not been mistyped. I mean, I have actually met an INFP in person -- as in, the genuine article, not just someone who thinks he/she might be INFP -- and I can see the differences right away, but it's really hard to tell children's types because they haven't exactly "filled out" and started using their secondary function yet.

I actually fit a lot of the Keirsey ISFP type description -- even including some of the stereotypes -- but I think his description of the SP temperament seems to be mostly describing what dominant Se looks like, especially in the chapter on kids. But it I did always bother me that there was something missing in the ISFP description. I agree with you that adding a description of Fi rounds out the personality type a lot more.

I was SOOOO totally introverted feeling a kid and as a teenager. I could only get into what was going on around me if it was something I decided to value first, and I totally resisted anyone's efforts to push me into experiences I didn't want. I think my Fi saved me from a life of conforming to popular opinion, or doing dumb stuff because "everyone else" was doing it. That's not to say that I didn't choose to do a lot of silly stuff when I was a teenager anyway... heh.

Sarah