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  1. #51
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltyWench View Post
    @ sarah

    Please stay and continue to post. You're worth your weight in gold! I love your definition of hedonism, it's the only way to live.

    Wow, thanks for the compliment and the welcome.

  2. #52
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    I responded to a thread started this week titled STs & SFs. I have added my two cents in Keirsey’s failing to be consistent with his work when describing SPs individually. He seemed to have grouped even the introverted SPs by considering the auxiliary whereas he considered the dominant cognitive function with the other types. This is expounded upon more from this Teamtechnology article.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    Oh my god, I know that weird look! You say something silly and throwaway that's meant just for a quick laugh, but they stand there trying to figure out the implications of what it ll means. It can be awkward. (I've even had that with some people who view my art -- should I tell them that I really just felt like drawing tree branches because sometimes drawing tree branches is fun, or should I let them think it's got layers of profound depth to it?)
    I just came back from 3 days of backpacking and I chose one of the most incompatible possible type to travel with. He created a run of the mill touristy itinerary and was adamant about sticking to it, planned travel times down to the last minute and almost rushed through sights. I on the other hand was very relaxed and taking each day as it came. I drove the poor ISTJ crazy and vice versa. Anyway, the thing was, I did things... or should I just say, I was me... and he wanted to know why I did this like this... or why I had said that... or why... you get the drift.

    It was a similar situation the first time I traveled with my closest pal (also an ISTJ) a few months after we had just met. But nowadays, we've kinda 'trained' each other; he's loosened up in some areas and I've gotten a bit more 'J' where it matters.

    Thanks for the detailed reply on your ENFJ; it's almost freaky because I see so many of those same qualities in 'my' ENFJ and, at the same time, I've realised some stuff ('common' sense...etc) is just due to how she's wired and I've got to be more accepting of that.

    You're lucky that your mum's an NFJ too and they get along. I have the feeling that mine is going to clash with my ISFJ mum in the worst way... almost dreading when (or should I say, if) it gets to part where I introduce them to each other.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Angry Ayrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OperaLover View Post
    I just came back from 3 days of backpacking and I chose one of the most incompatible possible type to travel with. He created a run of the mill touristy itinerary and was adamant about sticking to it, planned travel times down to the last minute and almost rushed through sights. I on the other hand was very relaxed and taking each day as it came. I drove the poor ISTJ crazy and vice versa. Anyway, the thing was, I did things... or should I just say, I was me... and he wanted to know why I did this like this... or why I had said that... or why... you get the drift.

    It was a similar situation the first time I traveled with my closest pal (also an ISTJ) a few months after we had just met. But nowadays, we've kinda 'trained' each other; he's loosened up in some areas and I've gotten a bit more 'J' where it matters.

    Thanks for the detailed reply on your ENFJ; it's almost freaky because I see so many of those same qualities in 'my' ENFJ and, at the same time, I've realised some stuff ('common' sense...etc) is just due to how she's wired and I've got to be more accepting of that.

    You're lucky that your mum's an NFJ too and they get along. I have the feeling that mine is going to clash with my ISFJ mum in the worst way... almost dreading when (or should I say, if) it gets to part where I introduce them to each other.
    My close ISTJ friend and I planned a large camping trip together and by the end of the planning we were going to shoot each other... God damn... talk about micro manegment... his head was so into the details of who is getting salt and pepper that he forgot about not having cars... I swear... I was going to kill him. When we arrived their and got out of our repective vehicles, I stampped up to him... and said listen stay outa my way for the next three days, and I will stay out yours... he got pissed that i came up with that first and he was like... NO... YOU STAY OUTTA MY WAY. Lol

    Anyway... needless to say, I have picked up many gross J habits and he has learned to chillax after that.

    I feel you buddy.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Ayrab View Post
    My close ISTJ friend and I planned a large camping trip together and by the end of the planning we were going to shoot each other... God damn... talk about micro manegment... his head was so into the details of who is getting salt and pepper that he forgot about not having cars... I swear... I was going to kill him. When we arrived their and got out of our repective vehicles, I stampped up to him... and said listen stay outa my way for the next three days, and I will stay out yours... he got pissed that i came up with that first and he was like... NO... YOU STAY OUTTA MY WAY. Lol

    Anyway... needless to say, I have picked up many gross J habits and he has learned to chillax after that.

    I feel you buddy.
    Hahahaha!

    I fear it would have come to that for me too if we were together ONE more day. I was this close to snapping.

  6. #56
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    I responded to a thread started this week titled STs & SFs. I have added my two cents in Keirsey’s failing to be consistent with his work when describing SPs individually. He seemed to have grouped even the introverted SPs by considering the auxiliary whereas he considered the dominant cognitive function with the other types. This is expounded upon more from this Teamtechnology article.
    Yeah, it's odd that Keirsey is a behaviorist who claims to be only interested in observable behavior patterns, and yet, he does end up making quite a lot of assumptions about the reasons behind what people do, including what people are --or aren't-- supposedly thinking.

    I've seen Fi equated with the NF temperament more times than I can remember. Ditto with Ti and the Rational temperament. That's too bad, because understanding those functions apart from temperament really helps explain why ISFPs and ISTPs are the way we are.

    By the way, I know I criticize David Keirsey a lot, but on the other hand I respect him for what he says about intelligence being "doing things well under varying circumstances." I'm a big fan of Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences, and I believe that everybody in this world is dumb in some ways and brilliant in other ways, and that the key to appreciating people is to find out what ways they're smart in. So kudos to him for that.

    Sarah

  7. #57
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    Yeah, it's odd that Keirsey is a behaviorist who claims to be only interested in observable behavior patterns, and yet, he does end up making quite a lot of assumptions about the reasons behind what people do, including what people are --or aren't-- supposedly thinking.

    I've seen Fi equated with the NF temperament more times than I can remember. Ditto with Ti and the Rational temperament. That's too bad, because understanding those functions apart from temperament really helps explain why ISFPs and ISTPs are the way we are.

    By the way, I know I criticize David Keirsey a lot, but on the other hand I respect him for what he says about intelligence being "doing things well under varying circumstances." I'm a big fan of Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences, and I believe that everybody in this world is dumb in some ways and brilliant in other ways, and that the key to appreciating people is to find out what ways they're smart in. So kudos to him for that.
    Your writing style and knowledge about type seemed quite familiar until I realized it's Sarah from 16types. I then read your reference to being a Librarian a knew that it was you. Welcome to the group. I have bragged on your intellect to others. Folks this lady is gifted and insightful. You will learn so much from her.

  8. #58
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    Yeah, it's odd that Keirsey is a behaviorist who claims to be only interested in observable behavior patterns, and yet, he does end up making quite a lot of assumptions about the reasons behind what people do, including what people are --or aren't-- supposedly thinking.

    I've seen Fi equated with the NF temperament more times than I can remember. Ditto with Ti and the Rational temperament. That's too bad, because understanding those functions apart from temperament really helps explain why ISFPs and ISTPs are the way we are.

    By the way, I know I criticize David Keirsey a lot, but on the other hand I respect him for what he says about intelligence being "doing things well under varying circumstances." I'm a big fan of Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences, and I believe that everybody in this world is dumb in some ways and brilliant in other ways, and that the key to appreciating people is to find out what ways they're smart in. So kudos to him for that.

    Sarah
    Yeah, I agree with all of that! And the function stuff was so enlightening when added to (not replacing) Keirsey's descriptions, because you can kinda fill in the holes. It became clear why my mom thought I was INFP, because I seem to fit better with the description of the "Idealist child" vs. the "Artisan child." Reason being as a child especially, the "Fi" is all I ever showed to the people who didn't break through my shell. For most people, there would be no way to know that it was "Se" right there bubbling under the surface, and not "Ne." Now as I look back on my behavior as a child, a teenager, and a young adult, I can actually point out the differences to my mom between me and an INFP, based on the entirely different way that our "Fi" is...actualized (<---not sure that's the right word, but something like that. )
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

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  9. #59
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Your writing style and knowledge about type seemed quite familiar until I realized it's Sarah from 16types. I then read your reference to being a Librarian a knew that it was you. Welcome to the group. I have bragged on your intellect to others. Folks this lady is gifted and insightful. You will learn so much from her.

    What a huge compliment! Yep, I'm that same person. Thank you, ? --- that really makes my day.

  10. #60
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Yeah, I agree with all of that! And the function stuff was so enlightening when added to (not replacing) Keirsey's descriptions, because you can kinda fill in the holes. It became clear why my mom thought I was INFP, because I seem to fit better with the description of the "Idealist child" vs. the "Artisan child." Reason being as a child especially, the "Fi" is all I ever showed to the people who didn't break through my shell. For most people, there would be no way to know that it was "Se" right there bubbling under the surface, and not "Ne." Now as I look back on my behavior as a child, a teenager, and a young adult, I can actually point out the differences to my mom between me and an INFP, based on the entirely different way that our "Fi" is...actualized (<---not sure that's the right word, but something like that. )

    I am the same way!!! Thank you, Jeffster, this really helps me finally feel certain I've not been mistyped. I mean, I have actually met an INFP in person -- as in, the genuine article, not just someone who thinks he/she might be INFP -- and I can see the differences right away, but it's really hard to tell children's types because they haven't exactly "filled out" and started using their secondary function yet.

    I actually fit a lot of the Keirsey ISFP type description -- even including some of the stereotypes -- but I think his description of the SP temperament seems to be mostly describing what dominant Se looks like, especially in the chapter on kids. But it I did always bother me that there was something missing in the ISFP description. I agree with you that adding a description of Fi rounds out the personality type a lot more.

    I was SOOOO totally introverted feeling a kid and as a teenager. I could only get into what was going on around me if it was something I decided to value first, and I totally resisted anyone's efforts to push me into experiences I didn't want. I think my Fi saved me from a life of conforming to popular opinion, or doing dumb stuff because "everyone else" was doing it. That's not to say that I didn't choose to do a lot of silly stuff when I was a teenager anyway... heh.

    Sarah

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