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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    I think it affects me when I am particularly stressed or worn down. Images and thoughts of future disasters (personal) will cycle through my head repeatedly. I will become more paranoid and read negative signs in people's behavior, actions, etc, which aren't necessarily accurate. Lenore Thomson writes that ISTPs who are subject to negative influence of Ni will become obsessed with conspiracy theories--this might be true to a certain extent, although in my case, it might not be widespread conspiracy theories regarding the gov't or aliens so much as falsely believing people in my life or at work are conspiring against myself or others.
    Interesting. Yeah I can get this notion that people are all against me. As I said, as a kid this was quite my natural state of being. Then somehow at around age 13, I started to try and be more positive about Fe but it didn't work out. I guess the negative Ni is just serving negative Fe there.

    I don't relate to conspiracy theories though, not at all. I mean, I don't assume an explicit conspiracy and I don't try to look for details to verify such an idea.


    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    Yes but that's not the only reason. How you were able to break down your thought process so clearly. At least my impression is you know your internal workings and the odds and end quite well
    I don't know everything about my internal workings but I did analyse Ti with... Ti? lol. ...it's mostly just observations and a bit of analysis


    Not really, unless I am starting a relationship with a special female.
    Then why do you say you get your energy from outside? What does this mean for you?


    I'm not sure if I can explain this more clearer but as a result of my lust for self improvement I do want a complete picture.
    Interesting, how do you relate that with self-improvement? If I don't need the complete picture for some goal - it is very useful to have it then, it gives me expertise - then I either have this nagging sense of wanting to understand it all or I can take it as a challenge. The "nagging" is something that's easily gone though.


    Gut feelings for me, is an irrational voice or feeling that point me towards a direction or choice. For example when I was unemployed I turn down a job because something was telling me it would be a bad fit. That I wouldn't last long, it was a telemarketer sales job. I hate ripping people off and would not make a good sales person in this sense. I can only sell something I would buy or support as a good product.
    Another example is when buying an item like say shoes. I spent 30 minutes trying to decide which clearance item to buy within my budget. What I ended up picking was the one that my gut initially told me to get, however I didn't listen. I can recall many many times where my gut was right but since I couldn't back up this logic I dismissed it.
    Oh interesting. I think I listen to such gut feelings all the time. If I want to buy shoes, I usually pick it right away by instinct.. I just feel which one I want. I don't have a need to back it up with logic. Of course, I may take the price etc into account, depending what kind of item we are talking about.


    I can kind of relate. For me I've always been bad at knowing when someone is attracted to me. Being concern with what others think, it really depends on what. Being number one in my field yes that is a major concern. Caring that people don't like me, not so much
    You mean, you don't care whether people like or don't like you?


    Perhaps not all but I've notice many extroverts having short attention spans and being impatient.
    Impatience fits me too. My attention span is very short when it comes to most things that can be sensed (Se). It's almost embarrassingly short, basically I get bored very quickly with most things and just keep moving on. But my attention span will be extremely long when it involves either a goal/object I want to get (to) or when it involves another challenge, intellectual or physical. So how about you, I think you relate to the latter?


    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    I read that thread and I'm still not sure which is my inferior.
    Haha lol why not?


    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    Very good question, hmm....... I don't have to understand everything tho I have quiet the curiosity. I've learn in life some things can't be fully understood or broken down. I'm a learner and always strive to learn but I only care about learning things relevant to my interest or goals. For example I learn some really interesting info about air planes but I didn't specially seek out this information. It was presented and I asked and learn.
    Yeah I relate about relevance to goals. It's only for short times when I go beyond that. Like the math example.


    Here is a interesting question for you guys and I may have asked this in one of my replies. Where is most of your energy directed, internally or externally? I asked my friends and I also had a suspicion that my focus is external. I seldom have internal struggles outside of depression or hardship.
    So do you have external struggles then or what? What do you mean by external focus?

  2. #42
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    Then why do you say you get your energy from outside? What does this mean for you?

    I never said I get energy from outside, I'm not sure. I said my focus is on the external. I focus on for example, problems at work, current events going on in my line of interest, my goals, all these things are outside of myself or involve me in a situation.


    Interesting, how do you relate that with self-improvement? If I don't need the complete picture for some goal - it is very useful to have it then, it gives me expertise - then I either have this nagging sense of wanting to understand it all or I can take it as a challenge. The "nagging" is something that's easily gone though.
    Self Improvement is all about evolving, maximizing your strengths and minimizing your weaknesses. Getting better at something or being less terrible at something. In my field of interest the mind and body must be sharp.



    Oh interesting. I think I listen to such gut feelings all the time. If I want to buy shoes, I usually pick it right away by instinct.. I just feel which one I want. I don't have a need to back it up with logic. Of course, I may take the price etc into account, depending what kind of item we are talking about.




    You mean, you don't care whether people like or don't like you?

    Yeah meaning I'm not bother by dislike,for sure I appreciate likes


    Impatience fits me too. My attention span is very short when it comes to most things that can be sensed (Se). It's almost embarrassingly short, basically I get bored very quickly with most things and just keep moving on. But my attention span will be extremely long when it involves either a goal/object I want to get (to) or when it involves another challenge, intellectual or physical. So how about you, I think you relate to the latter?

    Yes the latter. I never said I have a short attention span, but I can say I'm very very particular about what I engage myself in. There just isn't many things I care to partake in or learn.


    Haha lol why not?
    I can relate to both descriptions and examples. It's really hard for me to say. Unless, unless its truly as black and white meaning inferior Fe makes you more extroverted and inferior Ni more introverted. Yet it seems ISP get more introvert and withdraw. ESTP become quiet and withdrawn as well. When I'm stress I am far more withdrawn, I don't let others see my emotional breakdown. Which seems Fe. Then you throw in having negative outlook on my future, which appears Ni. I don't get paranoid that people are against me.



    Yeah I relate about relevance to goals. It's only for short times when I go beyond that. Like the math example.




    So do you have external struggles then or what? What do you mean by external focus?[/QUOTE]
    [B]My external struggles are things like surviving, getting by on a paycheck, staying focus on the goal, all these things are external. What kind of internal problems do you have?/B]

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    I never said I get energy from outside, I'm not sure. I said my focus is on the external. I focus on for example, problems at work, current events going on in my line of interest, my goals, all these things are outside of myself or involve me in a situation.
    OK, yeah those are things of the world but how do you focus on them? Do you just interact with things?

    Btw I forgot to reply to your question earlier; "Where is most of your energy directed, internally or externally?"

    It's hard to say in my case. I certainly like directing it externally, in a physical sense. But sometimes the inner world can be really nice too and can give energy. Not sure if that's always outright introversion though, an extraverted person will tend to think of objects in an extraverted fashion and I often do that too. But I can do real introversion as well. It's definitely different energy-wise. I'm not quite sure which definition of introversion to use... There is instinctual use of logic which feels different from a more mentally based use of it. The instinctual version of it energizes me just like other physical stuff (Se) does, the mental version feels less grounded and draining after a while but this may be due to my Enneagram type.


    Yeah meaning I'm not bother by dislike,for sure I appreciate likes
    Interesting, that doesn't sound like you have any negative Fe.


    I can relate to both descriptions and examples. It's really hard for me to say. Unless, unless its truly as black and white meaning inferior Fe makes you more extroverted and inferior Ni more introverted. Yet it seems ISP get more introvert and withdraw. ESTP become quiet and withdrawn as well. When I'm stress I am far more withdrawn, I don't let others see my emotional breakdown. Which seems Fe. Then you throw in having negative outlook on my future, which appears Ni. I don't get paranoid that people are against me.
    I can do both, get emotional and express it -> extraversion vs become quiet and withdraw. I do let others see emotional outbursts sometimes.


    My external struggles are things like surviving, getting by on a paycheck, staying focus on the goal, all these things are external. What kind of internal problems do you have?
    I don't really have internal problems... I tend to focus on the external in terms of that, like you. But what do you mean by "internal problems" anyway?

  4. #44
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    From my understanding internal issues are things like dwelling on self problems or issues. Being stuck in your head.

  5. #45
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    Been doing a lot of reading as well as compare and contrast of Istp and Estp characters. This thread really help me.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ect-sps-3.html

    Also studying Michael Jordan I saw a lot of elements of myself. I am pretty sure I'm an Istp. All the researching, time spent focus on my craft all points towards introversion.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    From my understanding internal issues are things like dwelling on self problems or issues. Being stuck in your head.
    I don't really dwell on problems by default. When stressed, I might do that temporarily.. for a short time.

    I don't really feel stuck in my head. I think I'm pretty balanced there. Again, maybe to do with enneagram, not a head type there. I was only stuck in the head under some crazy stress. That was engaging Ni and Enneagram 5 disintegration too


    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    Been doing a lot of reading as well as compare and contrast of Istp and Estp characters. This thread really help me.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ect-sps-3.html
    I relate to Sarah's post there except for the negative Ni part. Mine's not much negative except for what I described previously


    All the researching, time spent focus on my craft all points towards introversion.
    LOL so now you ended up as ISTP after all? Nice.

    Yeah uh I relate, one of the main reasons I went for ISTP myself was I only really get interested in something if I can involve Ti. As I said, my Se is pretty um.. easily bored by default. Ti helps with that issue :p. There are of course exceptions from this rule, some Se stuff can be really good :P but it might still involve Ti without me noticing.

  7. #47
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    @ZombieKiller

    so do you get any negative Fe stuff ever going on? other than a few emotional moments

  8. #48
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    hrm tertiary temptation was mentioned in that thread...

    I don't relate to the Ni one but I do relate to the Fe.

    Ni:

    Tertiary Ni (ISxP): "I can't possibly go along with this, 'cuz it's all a lie. It's all a set-up by the Man. I'd just be serving his interests and not my own. I'm not gonna be suckered by all this self-serving bull. No way, man, I gotta go my own way." Or "Why should I imitate the cool people? Despite their shiny clothes and social connections, they are still as vulnerable as anyone else." The Secondary Function (Se) would say: "This thing's bigger than you. Better just go with the flow, do what you can, trust your instincts to deal with what's right here and now."

    (Note: I've found that the above Ni description doesn't sit well with ISPs, since it comes off as too adolescent. Here's my attempt at re-writing this

    Tertiary Ni (ISxP): "I can't possibly go along with this, because it holds no meaning; it's brutal and senseless, the result of mindless animals serving their base instincts. There are so many ways to look at this, so many ways to alter its meaning - I can't risk subjecting myself to the elements so openly. I'd rather conceive my own reality, on my own terms." The Secondary Function (Se) would say: "This thing's bigger than you. Better just go with the flow, do what you can, trust your instincts to deal with what's right here and now." -- VagrantFarce


    VS

    Fe:

    Tertiary Fe (ExTP): "I'll lay a guilt trip on this guy, tell him all I've done for him and suggest that the next time he's in a tough spot, he might need my help. Well, hmm, ok, I'll be all friendly. I'll smile, tell him I like him, what a great guy he is. Well, hmm, that's not working, either. Ok, I'll make him look bad in the eyes of his friends." The Secondary Function (Ti) would say: "What is the truth? Not what people would agree is true, not an angle on the truth for making it palatable to someone, but the whole, honest truth?"


    ...I never call anything "brutal and senseless, the result of mindless animals serving their base instincts". Though yes I do find it helpful to remind myself of the Se approach "This thing's bigger than you. Better just go with the flow, do what you can, trust your instincts to deal with what's right here and now."

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by infinite View Post
    hrm tertiary temptation was mentioned in that thread...

    I don't relate to the Ni one but I do relate to the Fe.

    Ni:

    Tertiary Ni (ISxP): "I can't possibly go along with this, 'cuz it's all a lie. It's all a set-up by the Man. I'd just be serving his interests and not my own. I'm not gonna be suckered by all this self-serving bull. No way, man, I gotta go my own way." Or "Why should I imitate the cool people? Despite their shiny clothes and social connections, they are still as vulnerable as anyone else." The Secondary Function (Se) would say: "This thing's bigger than you. Better just go with the flow, do what you can, trust your instincts to deal with what's right here and now."

    (Note: I've found that the above Ni description doesn't sit well with ISPs, since it comes off as too adolescent. Here's my attempt at re-writing this

    Tertiary Ni (ISxP): "I can't possibly go along with this, because it holds no meaning; it's brutal and senseless, the result of mindless animals serving their base instincts. There are so many ways to look at this, so many ways to alter its meaning - I can't risk subjecting myself to the elements so openly. I'd rather conceive my own reality, on my own terms." The Secondary Function (Se) would say: "This thing's bigger than you. Better just go with the flow, do what you can, trust your instincts to deal with what's right here and now." -- VagrantFarce
    This is great. I should add that I don't think Ni always has a negative influence on ISTPs. It can also help them to see alternative options and perspectives when their Se fails to do so. The danger of course is the Ti-Ni loop, at which point the ISTP is probably just covering the same mental ground repeatedly and should try to reengage their Se.

    Which you kind of summed up with what you just wrote.
    Masculine presenting transgender lesbian

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    This is great. I should add that I don't think Ni always has a negative influence on ISTPs. It can also help them to see alternative options and perspectives when their Se fails to do so. The danger of course is the Ti-Ni loop, at which point the ISTP is probably just covering the same mental ground repeatedly and should try to reengage their Se.

    Which you kind of summed up with what you just wrote.
    So do you relate to such thoughts about "brutal and senseless base instincts"? I don't... I realize that's just an example though.

    I've been thinking and maybe I do something similar to tertiary Ni actually. I do have some thoughts about people as groups that I think must be Ni because if I honestly give it more thought, I can see it's just my interpretation (negative too). And possibly with more Se it would be resolved, into a better interpretation. I just feel like Se can't give enough data for a truly unambiguous way to see the situation and reach a definitely correct conclusion. Am I making sense to you here? Of course, the idea of just going with how things are is another solution, ditching any interpretations in the process.

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