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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    I don't know. Maybe earlier, like in my mid to late teens. I was rather oblivious to other people's feelings as a kid, so it usually came as a surprise to me when something I said or did hurt someone's feelings. As a young kid, especially, I was very blunt and called things exactly as I saw them, not realizing at the time that doing so wasn't always socially acceptable. It was often difficult as kid to be yelled at or punished when I wasn't intentionally being naughty; I was just being observant about the world around me, oh oops, better be careful with that, some people get all bent out of shape about being told THE OBVIOUS.

    Also, I remember when my sister was driving my car and got into an accident. It turned out she was fine so I asked, "how is the car?" Apparently, that's a cold and insensitive thing to do, even if I JUST saw my sister and it was pretty obvious she wasn't hurt too badly.

    You know, honestly, I don't know if I'll ever have a true grasp on Fe. I still find myself occasionally asking my wife, "did I say something wrong?" or "was I acting like a tool at that party?" Of course I've read Ti dominates will be very concerned with what others think of them. Would you say this is true in your case, @infinite and @ZombieKiller?
    Interesting. I can't say I relate to all of it. I'm going to try and respond to points in one go, sorry if it seems randomly ordered

    My Fe issues as a kid were usually due to my behaviour, mainly not taking other people into account when I wanted something; or if I did take them into account, I still expected people to do some things for me that I thought was pretty reasonable (logically reasonable too). Also because of the insensitive jokes I made (verbal or physical jokes). Sometimes physical fights as well. Overall I was completely unaware of Fe things. It would not at all register or register only unconsciously 99% of the time if people had a problem with my stuff, how people viewed me, etc. I recall a case where it was conscious temporarily but meh.. I forgot that fast though I'm pretty sure it still affected me unconsciously. Basically, I would be pretty hostile in my attitude to most other kids and I saw that as natural. Idk but some of this might be enneagram too...

    The car example, I suppose people ask about feelings when they ask "how are you" when you are physically unhurt. I might not explicitly ask how the person is but I would probably make some facial expression half consciously.

    I don't really ask others if my behaviour was/is okay.. I can obsess over it a bit at times but I don't usually ask others about it. So it usually stays unresolved. Yes, I can sometimes get worried about how others see me but I'm usually not thinking of this and I'm definitely better off not worrying about this. I feel more like myself that way.


    Is it messed up we're talking about me so much in Zombie Killer's thread? Perhaps we should move this discussion to another thread.
    You've just displayed some Fe here


    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    I just found this thread about recognizing the inferior in ISTPs (and INTPs) at personalitycafe: [ISTP] Recognizing the Inferior Function in ISTP

    I related to a lot of it, especially the part concerning the INTP father first asking his son how bad his bike was damaged after an accident.

    Then I found this thread about how inferior Ni affects ESTPs: [ESTP] What is inferior Ni like?

    Lately I've been wondering if my dad wasn't initially mistyped (I'd thought he was ESTJ or ESFJ) and is in fact ESTP. He can be ridiculously negative and pessimistic about the future.
    Nice threads. Unfortunately, I relate to both inferior Ni and inferior Fe.

    Though, if ESTP means I must be "ridiculously negative and pessimistic about the future" then I'm no ESTP I usually don't think a lot about the future. Or if I do think something negative, I rarely express it.

    Anyway, the difference for me is that the inferior Fe thingies are more common and I'm pretty used to it so it's no big deal I guess . Well it's annoying and shit, sure. The inferior Ni thingies are much harder to deal with but that stuff happened only like a couple of times in my life. It was extremely bad until I learned to gain some control over it. Otherwise, I certainly don't relate to habitually fucking up interpretation of shit through negative Ni. Well, or maybe I do get little irrational worries about the future more regularly than that but it's a lot more vague than the examples given and I have an outlet for such stress that works fine and so I don't even notice most of the time. (This isn't the same as the other control thingie that I talked about above. The control over the bigger Ni related issues is more volatile.) The Fe problems I certainly notice much more and I don't have any nice method for fixing the Fe-related stress. Sorry if this didn't make much sense, I'm not being very concrete here I know.

    Overall, the small Ni things are easily controlled. The big ones are not easily controlled, achieving control over it seemed entirely hopeless sometimes & usually made worse by Fe acting up as well. The Fe things - without Ni - are not really controlled, at all. I still conclude ISTP from this but...

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    Nope not at all. Your experience is very helpful to illustrate what makes an Istp think.
    I'm curious if you relate to what I've just said about inferior functions.

    Also, mind responding to this post of mine?

    I wanted to add to that post, if your answer is yes to "do you relate to wanting to have the complete picture in a logical sense" then I would also ask, how strong is that desire to have it? Would you ditch it - the desire for the understanding - for some other goals? What kind of goals, if so?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    Then I found this thread about how inferior Ni affects ESTPs: [ESTP] What is inferior Ni like?
    Oh and about that thread... @ZombieKiller I'm curious to see how well you relate to the inf Ni examples given in that thread.


    Also, I'm going to quote something relevant:

    "Just looking at how much trouble some ENFJs and ESFJs have with their inferior Ti compared to my tertiary Ti but how much less trouble they have with Se I would say there is a pretty big difference between tertiary and inferior. To me it looks like tertiary works in conjunction with the dominant function to refine its output, while inferior function simply gets squished by the dominant one so to say."
    Well, in my case Ni can certainly work in conjunction with Ti in this fashion though I can't say it's very easy to do, it's quite the mental work but rewarding. I don't have to first find the right mood to get to work with them. Fe - surprise surprise! - can also work in conjunction with Se, in certain situations, it's not hard at all but it's pretty hard to be in the mood for it in the first place. Once the situation/mood is right, it can work okay temporarily. Also.. Fe gets squished easily by Ti and so can Ni by Se.

    So I dunno how it is for you guys but that post, while sounding pretty logical, didn't clarify it at all for me lol

    Possibly an outside observer would have more insight into which function (Fe vs Ni) I'm using *less* naturally, less refined, or whatever :P (and same for Ti/Se, but that I guess is hard to tell online)

  4. #34
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    I haven't replied because the keyboard on my tablet is terrible for long messages. Don't want to type up long responses via phone either. Because the length of my messages or whatever may be falsely gauge as something it's not by someone.

    Will post a response later when I can connect my keyboard.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinite View Post
    Interesting. I can't say I relate to all of it. I'm going to try and respond to points in one go, sorry if it seems randomly ordered

    My Fe issues as a kid were usually due to my behaviour, mainly not taking other people into account when I wanted something; or if I did take them into account, I still expected people to do some things for me that I thought was pretty reasonable (logically reasonable too). Also because of the insensitive jokes I made (verbal or physical jokes). Sometimes physical fights as well. Overall I was completely unaware of Fe things. It would not at all register or register only unconsciously 99% of the time if people had a problem with my stuff, how people viewed me, etc. I recall a case where it was conscious temporarily but meh.. I forgot that fast though I'm pretty sure it still affected me unconsciously. Basically, I would be pretty hostile in my attitude to most other kids and I saw that as natural. Idk but some of this might be enneagram too...

    The car example, I suppose people ask about feelings when they ask "how are you" when you are physically unhurt. I might not explicitly ask how the person is but I would probably make some facial expression half consciously.

    I don't really ask others if my behaviour was/is okay.. I can obsess over it a bit at times but I don't usually ask others about it. So it usually stays unresolved. Yes, I can sometimes get worried about how others see me but I'm usually not thinking of this and I'm definitely better off not worrying about this. I feel more like myself that way.




    You've just displayed some Fe here




    Nice threads. Unfortunately, I relate to both inferior Ni and inferior Fe.

    Though, if ESTP means I must be "ridiculously negative and pessimistic about the future" then I'm no ESTP I usually don't think a lot about the future. Or if I do think something negative, I rarely express it.

    Anyway, the difference for me is that the inferior Fe thingies are more common and I'm pretty used to it so it's no big deal I guess . Well it's annoying and shit, sure. The inferior Ni thingies are much harder to deal with but that stuff happened only like a couple of times in my life. It was extremely bad until I learned to gain some control over it. Otherwise, I certainly don't relate to habitually fucking up interpretation of shit through negative Ni. Well, or maybe I do get little irrational worries about the future more regularly than that but it's a lot more vague than the examples given and I have an outlet for such stress that works fine and so I don't even notice most of the time. (This isn't the same as the other control thingie that I talked about above. The control over the bigger Ni related issues is more volatile.) The Fe problems I certainly notice much more and I don't have any nice method for fixing the Fe-related stress. Sorry if this didn't make much sense, I'm not being very concrete here I know.

    Overall, the small Ni things are easily controlled. The big ones are not easily controlled, achieving control over it seemed entirely hopeless sometimes & usually made worse by Fe acting up as well. The Fe things - without Ni - are not really controlled, at all. I still conclude ISTP from this but...
    You seem more ISTP to me but I am no expert

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieKiller View Post
    I haven't replied because the keyboard on my tablet is terrible for long messages. Don't want to type up long responses via phone either. Because the length of my messages or whatever may be falsely gauge as something it's not by someone.

    Will post a response later when I can connect my keyboard.
    OK no worries


    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    You seem more ISTP to me but I am no expert
    Yeah & thanks. Got a question about that inferior function topic... Do you ever have Ni issues as ISTP? If yes, what are they like?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinite View Post
    OK no worries




    Yeah & thanks. Got a question about that inferior function topic... Do you ever have Ni issues as ISTP? If yes, what are they like?
    I think it affects me when I am particularly stressed or worn down. Images and thoughts of future disasters (personal) will cycle through my head repeatedly. I will become more paranoid and read negative signs in people's behavior, actions, etc, which aren't necessarily accurate. Lenore Thomson writes that ISTPs who are subject to negative influence of Ni will become obsessed with conspiracy theories--this might be true to a certain extent, although in my case, it might not be widespread conspiracy theories regarding the gov't or aliens so much as falsely believing people in my life or at work are conspiring against myself or others.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinite View Post
    Yeah don't worry

    Curious; when did you start recognizing Fe (presence, influence of it etc)? At what age? Did you ever have a period in your life (as a kid) when you were completely unaware?

    For me when I was younger I do recall being misunderstood by feelers often.


    Interesting you see me as Ti-dom :P Is that because of the math thingie?

    Yes but that's not the only reason. How you were able to break down your thought process so clearly. At least my impression is you know your internal workings and the odds and end quite well


    Uhmm, that can be true for both STPs. I'm like this myself. The part where you talked about distance, I relate to that too. You could still be ESTP more than me, though :P

    The upbeat blahblah stuff, are you never like that? I can actually be, when in the mood. But not my default, no.
    Not really, unless I am starting a relationship with a special female.

    You were saying that you don't get energy from simply interacting, only when it's some interesting convo? I do get energy from interesting convos myself but it's a different kind of energy, it's a bit more.. mental energy. When it's just about interaction itself with someone in a physical sense, that's not this kind of mental energy. It might be my enneagram type but the non-mental version of the energy feels better for me in a sense, it's more grounded.

    As for me being able to articulate my thought processes, it's just a result of observation over time. That fact that I've spent time on observing them doesn't have to be type related. It would help you too, IMO, if you did that. Do you relate to wanting to have the complete picture in a logical sense?
    I'm not sure if I can explain this more clearer but as a result of my lust for self improvement I do want a complete picture. But I'm starting to notice most of my focus is externally oppose to internally. Which suggest extroversion.

    What do you call a "gut feeling"? I get them in specific topics only. For example, math related tasks and navigation (in physical space). I trust them there as they work well. I do prefer to be able to find or recall supporting data or flesh out the logical steps. I'm usually able to do this and I do spend the time on doing so, just because I feel better that way. I have had "hunches" in other life areas that were totally irrational and I always know that logically. And they didn't turn out to be correct, in about 99% of the time. Luckily these irrational flashes of gut feeling are relatively rare. I certainly don't care to trust those even if 1% of the time they happen to work out.
    Gut feelings for me, is an irrational voice or feeling that point me towards a direction or choice. For example when I was unemployed I turn down a job because something was telling me it would be a bad fit. That I wouldn't last long, it was a telemarketer sales job. I hate ripping people off and would not make a good sales person in this sense. I can only sell something I would buy or support as a good product.
    Another example is when buying an item like say shoes. I spent 30 minutes trying to decide which clearance item to buy within my budget. What I ended up picking was the one that my gut initially told me to get, however I didn't listen. I can recall many many times where my gut was right but since I couldn't back up this logic I dismissed it.


    The zoning out thing, I don't completely zone out either. I always stay aware of space, where I am, stuff like that. But I'm not always following what is happening, I mean I won't follow everything closely if I'm bored with the situation.

    Intense focus, well, I got that too.. ESTPs are often described as having short span of attention. I don't think it's got to be 100% type related though.
    Perhaps not all but I've notice many extroverts having short attention spans and being impatient.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    I don't know. Maybe earlier, like in my mid to late teens. I was rather oblivious to other people's feelings as a kid, so it usually came as a surprise to me when something I said or did hurt someone's feelings. As a young kid, especially, I was very blunt and called things exactly as I saw them, not realizing at the time that doing so wasn't always socially acceptable. It was often difficult as kid to be yelled at or punished when I wasn't intentionally being naughty; I was just being observant about the world around me, oh oops, better be careful with that, some people get all bent out of shape about being told THE OBVIOUS.

    Also, I remember when my sister was driving my car and got into an accident. It turned out she was fine so I asked, "how is the car?" Apparently, that's a cold and insensitive thing to do, even if I JUST saw my sister and it was pretty obvious she wasn't hurt too badly.

    You know, honestly, I don't know if I'll ever have a true grasp on Fe. I still find myself occasionally asking my wife, "did I say something wrong?" or "was I acting like a tool at that party?" Of course I've read Ti dominates will be very concerned with what others think of them. Would you say this is true in your case, @infinite and @ZombieKiller?
    I can kind of relate. For me I've always been bad at knowing when someone is attracted to me. Being concern with what others think, it really depends on what. Being number one in my field yes that is a major concern. Caring that people don't like me, not so much
    Is it messed up we're talking about me so much in Zombie Killer's thread? Perhaps we should move this discussion to another thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    I just found this thread about recognizing the inferior in ISTPs (and INTPs) at personalitycafe: [ISTP] Recognizing the Inferior Function in ISTP

    I related to a lot of it, especially the part concerning the INTP father first asking his son how bad his bike was damaged after an accident.

    Then I found this thread about how inferior Ni affects ESTPs: [ESTP] What is inferior Ni like?

    Lately I've been wondering if my dad wasn't initially mistyped (I'd thought he was ESTJ or ESFJ) and is in fact ESTP. He can be ridiculously negative and pessimistic about the future.
    I read that thread and I'm still not sure which is my inferior.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinite View Post
    I'm curious if you relate to what I've just said about inferior functions.

    Also, mind responding to this post of mine?

    I wanted to add to that post, if your answer is yes to "do you relate to wanting to have the complete picture in a logical sense" then I would also ask, how strong is that desire to have it? Would you ditch it - the desire for the understanding - for some other goals? What kind of goals, if so?
    Very good question, hmm....... I don't have to understand everything tho I have quiet the curiosity. I've learn in life some things can't be fully understood or broken down. I'm a learner and always strive to learn but I only care about learning things relevant to my interest or goals. For example I learn some really interesting info about air planes but I didn't specially seek out this information. It was presented and I asked and learn.

    Here is a interesting question for you guys and I may have asked this in one of my replies. Where is most of your energy directed, internally or externally? I asked my friends and I also had a suspicion that my focus is external. I seldom have internal struggles outside of depression or hardship.

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