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  1. #61
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    And you don't think that ESP types do this?
    Yes and no. You can easily make the MBTI contradict itself.

    Sensers naturally and effortlessly connect concrete sense input in the here and now whereas Intuitives connect mental entities from memory with whatever they think is going on around them.

  2. #62
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Topic: S/N : details/big picture


    As an INTJ, when I have a project/goal to accomplish (think, like, a class project, not something huge like a life goal) I near-instantly plan out something; I can do details like that no problem. I can spell out clear, direct, (linear, if you will) specific tasks taht everyone has to do to accomplish these goals.

    Do I just have a well-balanced 'S' skills, or is there depth to the definition that we are missing? Certainly an iNtuitive who can deal with details (but just prefers to have more vision and big picture) is still N.

    I think we possibly need to add more depth to the definitions.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #63
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    I think a strong iNtuitive could still be good with detail work, but their focus is on the big picture, not the enjoyment. An NJ would probably be better at it than the NP.

  4. #64
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    See, when I describe N and S along these lines, my Sensing friends and acquaintances (except for the ones with vocational education) usually think they're N. How does one explain the N/S dimension to a Senser holding, say, a Master's Degree in humanities so that they self-select as Sensing? I sometimes feel like I'm (indirectly) saying "So, essentially, this is the preference that, all else equal, would make the best (insert their academic profession here), and this is the preference that is better for doing something more practical/concrete. Which preference do you think you have?"
    A litle late to the party, but what the hell.

    I've seen three "iNtuitives" become "Sensors" once they took the real test. The N/S aspect can be difficult to understand.

    I need to read the rest of this thread.
    Last edited by Natrushka; 06-07-2007 at 05:45 PM. Reason: Too quick on the draw

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  5. #65
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Topic: S/N : details/big picture


    As an INTJ, when I have a project/goal to accomplish (think, like, a class project, not something huge like a life goal) I near-instantly plan out something; I can do details like that no problem. I can spell out clear, direct, (linear, if you will) specific tasks taht everyone has to do to accomplish these goals.

    Do I just have a well-balanced 'S' skills, or is there depth to the definition that we are missing? Certainly an iNtuitive who can deal with details (but just prefers to have more vision and big picture) is still N.

    I think we possibly need to add more depth to the definitions.

    Keirsey says of the INTJs "Masterminds arrange things in coherent and comprehensive sequential order, that is, they coordinate operations by making efficient schedules, with each item entailing the next, as a necessary precursor or consequence. Moreover, Masterminds make contingency plans for keeping their schedules on track." INTJS and ENTJS are Strategic Coordinators - quick to judge and make schedules. Coordinators determine who is to do what at a given time and place.

    In dealing with the big picture(N), you are taking into account the details (S)

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  6. #66
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nighthawk View Post
    Good point ... I've never seen it explained this way ... but it makes sense to me.
    A good point yes.. and exhibionistic, self revealing..

    Control and direction. I knew it I knew it! Beware of these TJs. They all have the Te at the top function unit. Te-Ni or Ni-Te or Te-Si or Si-Te.

    That is why his name is Uberfuhrer, see?

  7. #67
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
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    Why not just explain Si, Se, Ni and Ne in an easy fashion?

    Sensing is either living in the moment (Se) or the moment generating visions of the past (Si).

    Intuiting is either the moment generating ideas of possibilities (Ne) or visions of the future (Ni).

    (You guys can probably give better definitions, but method and not definitions are the point here. On the other hand, listening to an INTJ about how to explain things, especially this one, might in general be a bad idea.)

    Then one might say sensors tend to me concrete, intuitives abstract. Sensors tend to focus on details, intuitives on the big picture and so on.

    But really it is not strange it is hard to explain intuiting and sensing, since they both consist of two concepts. How do you explain two concepts as one? That's kind of artificial, isn't it?

  8. #68
    Fight For Freedom FFF's Avatar
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    How come nobody in here seems to be clearly acknowledging the fact that many sensors can have a lot of intuitiion and many intuitives can have a lot of sensing?

    The I__P and the E__J crowd have their second and third processes as both perceiving processes. For example the INTP has Ne and then Si and the ENTJ has Ni and then Se. I know three ENTJs very well (one of them is my brother), and their apparent feeding of Se was confusing to me when I didn't acknowledge the value of the third process. These ENTJs just seem to really love experiences a lot, especially for people who are more of intuitive thinkers.

    The I__J and E__P crowd have a shadow perceiving process of their primary perceiving process. For example an ENTP has the primary process of Ne, but the shadow of that is Se. I know an ENTP very well, and he seems to be a lot more concerned with extroverted sensing than I am. That is probably because Se is the shadow process of Ne.

    There's also a lot of people who have a good balance of intuition and sensing. An ENTJ might have a nearly equal balance of Ni and Se. An ENTP or ESTP might have a nearly equal balance of Ne and Se making for an ExTP.

    The point of this all is that if you describe intuition to sensors, there's a good chance they will acknowledge their third process or the shadow of the primary process, and think they're an intuitive. Although, the latter seems less likely, since that'd be like an INTP getting confused as to whether they're an INFP or not (side note: recent posts of mine involve my confusion as to whether I should've been an INFP, but I don't think I match the INFP profile very well at all).

  9. #69
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
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    ImNotTooPopular certainly has a good point. You can see it if you test your cognitive functions. It's not like one score sky high on two and 0 on the rest ...

  10. #70
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splittet View Post
    ImNotTooPopular certainly has a good point. You can see it if you test your cognitive functions. It's not like one score sky high on two and 0 on the rest ...
    What is the medial function order of the INTJs perceptible in the tests?

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