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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundowning View Post
    I think the differences are weaker than portrayed, and therefore, any explanation would rely on superficial characteristics.
    This seems likely to me also.

    In day to day life, more than any other function pair, "sensing" and "intuition" are both required, since mosts things to do involve both some analysis for figuring things out, and some direct observation/fact memorization to have enough basic information. It's likely that people will develop abilities in both these areas since they are both needed, making preferences harder to detect.

  2. #22
    Senior Member girlnamedbless's Avatar
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    When I think of iNtuitives, these are the things that come into mind:
    - head-in-clouds
    - philosophical
    - vague
    - intelligent
    - confusing
    - need to find deeper meanings

    - What do you like about preferring Sensing?
    Hmm, this is tough, but I'd say I like it when I have S teachers.. because then I know what kind of essay would please them. Also I value the common sense I have. In addition, I'd like to say I'm good at being realistic and planning things in my life out.

    - What do you appreciate about other Sensers?
    I appreciate other Sensors because they live more in the present like I do. They are realistic when it comes to advice. My best friend is SJ and she always helps me plan things, so that's cool. Basically I like them for their practicality.

    - What do you find negative about iNtuition and iNtuitives?
    --Ns are so vague! I like to have things planned out, and when I ask for input and get a response like "whatever," or "I don't know" then it kind of bugs me. Being SJ it's hard for me to have an N teacher, because they tend to be so vague with homework assigments and due dates. Maybe this has to do with J/P too, but N has a lot do with it. An N teacher would say "write a summary on this story, I'll collect it next week sometime.." and an S teacher would say "Read paragraphs one and two and respond to the questions on page 32. This is due May 12th." I know this is slightly exaggerated, but I need those details, specifics, and guidelines when I have to do a project.
    --Examples when speaking... this is a big one for me. When an N friend tells me a story, (s)he is likely to just say something and not back it up with an example. For example, my iNtuitive friend was talking about an argument she had with her other friend the other day, and the conversation went down like this:
    ---Her: I don't know, she's just pissing me off lately.
    ---Me: Why, what did she do?
    ---Her: She's being lame, and I don't know what I did wrong.
    ---Me: Did she do something or say something?
    ---Her: She's acting different towards me.
    ---Me: That sucks, did she talk to you about it?
    ---Her: Yeah, she called me and said I was never there for her, and also she kept saying I was a bad friend to these certain people.
    ---Me: Ohh, I see what you mean.. I have no idea why she could be doing that...
    etc.
    So basically, I always have to ask Ns to further explain themselves.. in order to fully understand a situation, I need examples and stories. It takes a lot to get it out of some Ns.. but so I can understand them, I sort of need to. Sometimes I feel like I'm putting words into their mouths to try to understand a situation better. :/
    I bet they'll put something in the air tonight, just to light your face.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Kyrielle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlnamedbless View Post
    - What do you find negative about iNtuition and iNtuitives?
    --Ns are so vague! I like to have things planned out, and when I ask for input and get a response like "whatever," or "I don't know" then it kind of bugs me. Being SJ it's hard for me to have an N teacher, because they tend to be so vague with homework assigments and due dates. Maybe this has to do with J/P too, but N has a lot do with it. An N teacher would say "write a summary on this story, I'll collect it next week sometime.." and an S teacher would say "Read paragraphs one and two and respond to the questions on page 32. This is due May 12th." I know this is slightly exaggerated, but I need those details, specifics, and guidelines when I have to do a project.
    I'm a little like this with some professors. I had a professor this quarter in art history (she was a pretty good professor, don't get me wrong) who didn't give clear specifications for a research paper she wanted (and I don't need someone to hold my hand through the project, I just like to know the bare minimum expected)...but she said she wanted X number of pages, and then suddenly she wanted Y number of pages, and then she wanted it single-spaced, then double-spaced, then illustrated, then illustrated only if we felt like it...drove me up a wall. I think this is a J thing. Because I do like it when I know what a teacher wants and when they want it. That way, I can see how far I can push the boundaries in the project so I can have fun with it.

  4. #24
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    girlnamedbless, that was a very useful post, thank you so much!

    I'd love to hear from some SPs as well.

  5. #25
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlnamedbless View Post
    For example, my iNtuitive friend was talking about an argument she had with her other friend the other day, and the conversation went down like this:
    ---Her: I don't know, she's just pissing me off lately.
    ---Me: Why, what did she do?
    ---Her: She's being lame, and I don't know what I did wrong.
    ---Me: Did she do something or say something?
    ---Her: She's acting different towards me.
    ---Me: That sucks, did she talk to you about it?
    ---Her: Yeah, she called me and said I was never there for her, and also she kept saying I was a bad friend to these certain people.
    ---Me: Ohh, I see what you mean.. I have no idea why she could be doing that...
    etc.
    So basically, I always have to ask Ns to further explain themselves.. in order to fully understand a situation, I need examples and stories. It takes a lot to get it out of some Ns.. but so I can understand them, I sort of need to. Sometimes I feel like I'm putting words into their mouths to try to understand a situation better. :/
    You're a good friend.

    I read your post and laughed, you have such a good understanding (as would be expected, since you're S) of some of the quirks and problems with N types. I come at it from the N side of things, but I totally understand why this is frustrating (partly because the huge majority of my family relationships, aside from pure friendships, have all been with S's).

    Your N friend could probably say the same thing to another N and the N would exactly what she meant, because they both operate the context of details, not necessarily the details themselves -- like dropping a large clear "overlay" overtop the facts. You work more with the separate details than with the patterns of details, so you need more of the details explained for you to follow. This seems pretty common for N/S relationships, just for the S to always be asking for some clarity and specifics, while the N is leaping around and can follow many things but has trouble anchoring things in place.

    To be honest, for practical reasons, I would probably enjoy an S teacher better in terms of understand expectations, than an N teacher... if I knew I had requirements to fulfill. I do like to know what is expected of me, so I don't have to guess all the time. But then again, the N teacher -- being so flexible with the assignment parameters -- is probably ALSO flexible with the assignment grading, where the S is both more specific with the requirements and thus is much more likely to adhere to those standards when evaluating performance. So it goes both ways -- an N teacher (especially NP) will not provide as specific requirements, but this also means their grading is based on the same amount of flex, usually.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #26
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    I think a Judger is more likely to want specifics. Because of their need for closure they want to make sure they understand everything correctly, regardless of their S or N preference.

    Being specific about things is more about wanting to come to closure rather than being open-ended.

    So I think your description about Sensors wanting everything to be specific is more specifically SJs.

    The professors I liked tended to be NJs like myself. I typed my Humanities professor as an INFJ, because his lessons were structured and his class was a meaningful intellectual tea party for me. It was also probably the most I've ever learned in college or in regular high school.

    He also shared my views of classes like Philosophy and Humanities ultimately being practical, because they taught people to think and be happy without having material wealth and such.

  7. #27
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    I ask because practically every Senser I know has started out identifying as an iNtuitive. I figure that I must be presenting the dimension with a lot of N bias, so in the interests of balance, go ahead and give S preferential treatment.
    There is a reason for this. SPs can easily see the big picture, and they do use the other functions as well. This article captures something that I have attempted to convey in other threads:
    Extraverted Sensing and extraverted iNtuiting are holistic, analogic perceptual modes. In extraverted Sensing, the individual elements, like the trees in the forest, are seen in rich detail, all at once. Thus concrete patterns are quite likely to be perceived along with the discrete sensory information. This pattern is different from the abstract extraverted iNtuiting perception of the relationships and connections of the trees to the rest of the environment. Both pattern and big picture can be on a continuum from concrete to abstract.

    Possibilities - These Artisans-SPs frequently respond to "possibilities" as an accurate descriptor. When we probed deeper, they described seeking opportunities for action, usually what to do next and what will work to solve a problem. They like brainstorming and coming up with variations on a theme, until the process goes on and on and on and gets too far away from reality. Those who prefer extraverted iNtuiting are increasingly excited by the ideas sparked in the process regardless of how far abstracted from reality. Both extraverted iNtuiting and extraverted Sensing focus in the here and now and on possibilities and opportunities. The differentiating factor is abstraction or concreteness.
    For this reason, in answering the question whether SPs stay in the moment is as equally relevant to how developed the Ni is for both Ne and Se types.

  8. #28
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    Couldn't Thinkers also be considered big picture oriented since they're more interested in the ends than the means?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Couldn't Thinkers also be considered big picture oriented since they're more interested in the ends than the means?
    Unsure who you are referencing your inquiry to Uber, however maybe you're equating being objective with "big picture"? Besides, I think that because the S/N dichotomy reveals how one learns and accept information, then it is this dichotomy which considers the big picture. The T/F dichotomy indicates how we make decisions. Thinkers tend to be objective and potentially impersonal. Feelers give greater weight to the implication of decisions on people. I think that NF types would take acception to the inference that they are incapable of seeing the big picture.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Economica View Post
    This is a question for the Sensers. How would (/do) you describe the Sensing/iNtuition dimension to MBTI newcomers, especially other Sensers?
    This may be oversimplifying, but what can you expect from a sensing type? I would explain the basic workings this way. Si and Ni are like reservoirs which make their own water or information, and can build up, without effective Te/Fe valves to extract it. On the other hand, Ti/Fi have a constant depleted reservoir which needs a steady intake of water/information, using their Ne/Se valves. Faulty valves will allow the Ti/Fi reservoir to dry up.

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