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  1. #11
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Thank for posting this; it's a cool topic!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fun in the Sun View Post
    When people compliment me for being able to draw, paint, fix my car, or remodel my house, they will sometimes tell me that I have a gift and that they wish they could do those things too.
    That's a cool experience, isn't it?
    The same has happened to me a few times, and I've always appreciated it when a friend of mine gives me positive feedback about some project I've recently completed.
    Most of the time the impetus for me doing anything is related to:
    (1) My needs, tastes, and interests requiring things that need to function in a certain way, look a certain way, or withstand greater than average use & abuse.
    (2) I pay attention to everything, including the costs of precursor materials of all kinds - so when I get a few bids to see how much it will cost to pay someone to do something I need taken care of, I'm quickly able to sort out their labor, materials, and overhead - and get a quick read as to whether their pricing is fair or egregious.
    (3) Once I figure out that what I want & need is simply not readily available, too expensive, or will be much of a hassle to obtain - then I start thinking about how to build it from scratch, or modify some existing components to give them new life and purpose as I need them to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fun in the Sun View Post
    I will often tell them that they could do it too if they give it a try. I am surprised at the number of these people that respond in the negative.
    Most of the people I've met who had a similar attitude as such attempted some DIY project that was way beyond their skill set, and that they did not have appropriate equipment to make the job easier to do, and with better end result. This is hardly irreversible, it just takes reading, practice, and if you are lucky working as an apprentice/helper for someone doing similar/related work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fun in the Sun View Post
    They tell me that a person either has it or they don't, and they just don't have it. I am amazed by this.
    I hear you, and I agree with your amazement at such statements.
    Perhaps what they mean is "some people have a knack for such work and can figure it out quicker than others?"
    Negative thinking is the worst thing you can start any project with - it's simply a bad idea.
    Be rational, be logical, be systematic, do things a step at a time, so if you do screw up, then you only have to re-do one component of the work.
    It is necessary to FREE YOURSELF to the fact that YOU ARE GOING TO MESS UP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fun in the Sun View Post
    I never would've been able to do any of the things I have if I at least didn't try.
    No one builds anything perfectly from start to finish that I know of; it is very common to learn from the project as it goes on, and adjust plans for its finalization to optimize the end result along the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fun in the Sun View Post
    How many of you run into similar responses.
    Yes, I have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fun in the Sun View Post
    Are SPs just more optimistic in what they think they can accomplish and just do it?
    In my opinion SP optimism does matter, however I think there is a lot more at play.
    We're able to creatively re-purpose things to make them function differently than originally intended.
    We're not afraid to mess up, we know it is not some judgment of our worth as a human being, we're just building a bookcase or some thing - no big deal!
    Finally, I think SPs are a bit fearless, in that they are not averse to trying out things outside their "comfort zone."
    We pull past experiences forward, and apply their principles to our current endeavors, in order to create what we need, with what we have to work with, in the time we have to make it happen.
    That's the natural SP problem solving workflow as I see it; I use it, and I've seen many of my SP brothers and sisters use this method similarly.
    We're focused on the end result, on what we have to work with, and making sure the final product meets or exceeds specifications - and thus the details along the way of how we do what part of the work, or what we use to do it, kind of get lost in the mix, because even though they matter, they are not showstoppers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fun in the Sun View Post
    Are we just more practiced? Is it really just innate?
    Maybe we're simply more inclined to try such things, and that leads to us becoming more practiced.
    As far as what is innate to SPs vs. others I think there is a lot of variance amongst different people on that topic - and although it makes sense that we will seek to do what we are naturally good at doing, that doesn't guarantee that others don't have the same gifts - we might have similar capacities are our brothers and sisters of different archetypes, but a different proclivity as to which strengths we seem to implement more than others. Maybe we're just more interested in such things?

    Either way, I love massive workday projects where all types of people get together to make a common cause happen.
    Those are cool experiences, and I will have more of the min the coming year to use these skills/gifts for the greater good.

    Have a great evening!



    -Halla74
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  2. #12
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    My attention span causes me more problems with stuff than anything else, I think. I have the patience to make things functional but not always aesthetically pleasing. Like the book shelves and desk my husband designed and I built are very sturdy and do what they are supposed to do, but don't look amazing. And I usually only sew simple things because after a couple of days, I lose interest in projects.

    But I figure if prissy, addle-brained me can do drywall, wiring, plumbing, furniture-making, etc most people can probably do it. Might not ever be amazing at it, but probably competent. Most of that stuff is just not stuff I'd choose to do in my free time. I'd do it to help one of my kids have a decent place to live when they are ready to move out or because I thought we could do things as well as a contractor for a lot less money, but that's probably it.

    If my husband can find a book on something, we can usually do it. He is the brains and the brawn and I do the power tools and the fine work. I'm really really glad we have found a good mechanic, though. That was not my favorite thing at all.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post
    You didn't get my point instead get caught up in language like a face value retard that alot of sp people seem to be. If you have an average capacity in a field and can follow instructions you'll learn.
    Yup, face value retard here. Stupid as they come...would love to reach moron level one day. Its my drive in life.

    You just love to blanket statement dont you
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #14
    Senior Member Fun in the Sun's Avatar
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    I'm hiring out someone to do part of my roof, tear down part of my house, side it, do foundation work. I'm going to be doing some interior work like hanging and finishing drywall. I like to do the finishing; there's an art to it. Very peaceful.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Fun in the Sun's Avatar
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    This weekend I will be reframing a door. I have to put in jack studs and a header because there wasn't already one above the doorway. It's amazing what you'll find when remodelling.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fun in the Sun View Post
    When people compliment me for being able to draw, paint, fix my car, or remodel my house, they will sometimes tell me that I have a gift and that they wish they could do those things too. I will often tell them that they could do it too if they give it a try. I am surprised at the number of these people that respond in the negative. They tell me that a person either has it or they don't, and they just don't have it. I am amazed by this. I never would've been able to do any of the things I have if I at least didn't try. How many of you run into similar responses. Are SPs just more optimistic in what they think they can accomplish and just do it? Are we just more practiced? Is it really just innate?
    My wife is an ISFP and people are always complimenting her abilities. I know the stereotype surrounding ISFPs is that they are excellent artists, but in her case, it really holds true. She's best when she improvises. For example, she is an excellent cook, yet almost never follows recipes (she might look one up for ideas, but she almost always tweaks it and I rarely see her looking at a recipe when she is in the process of making something). However, when she has tried to follow recipes ingredient by ingredient, she has often messed up whatever she was cooking (weak Te, I would guess). I think that when insecurity about being able to do something well overtakes her, it is usually her inferior thinking function getting the best of her. Otherwise, she tends to be fairly confident and optimistic when undertaking any task.

    I don't know if her artistic abilities are innate, but I think that, to some extent, it has to do with practice.

    She's also a great painter (i.e. painting houses) and has often left male colleagues envious of her ability. When hired to do a job by a new client, people often look at her nervously before the job, because there aren't too many female painters (at least where we live), yet this leaves them even more surprised and impressed by the finished job.

    The one artistic area where she isn't super-confident is in music. She can play the violin, and she can do it well when she's practiced, but she has a lot of difficulty improvising or playing by ear. She was classically trained, so she can read sheet music very well. I, on the other hand, love to improvise and I prefer to learn and play by ear. I never learned to read sheet music, although I can read basic tablature and have at least a very simple understanding of music theory.
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    At heart, I’ll always be a bleeding heart liberal.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fun in the Sun View Post
    When people compliment me for being able to draw, paint, fix my car, or remodel my house, they will sometimes tell me that I have a gift and that they wish they could do those things too. I will often tell them that they could do it too if they give it a try. I am surprised at the number of these people that respond in the negative. They tell me that a person either has it or they don't, and they just don't have it. I am amazed by this. I never would've been able to do any of the things I have if I at least didn't try. How many of you run into similar responses. Are SPs just more optimistic in what they think they can accomplish and just do it? Are we just more practiced? Is it really just innate?
    Yeah a person is either interested/motivated enough or not. This is how I see it. Sure anyone can learn these things but why bother if not interested enough? As for myself, taking your examples, well I was always good at drawing naturally and that may actually be a gift but I couldn't care less to do stuff like house remodeling and/or renovating. I instead paid others to do such work. It really is just boring because it's just repetitive mechanical work without any real understanding needed. I only did the designing part, that is, I decided what I wanted the place to be like, I picked materials based on aesthetics etc. and then the work was done by professionals. Otoh if I had a car, it would definitely be interesting to understand how it works and be able to fix it. So I think a good summary is that I'm only interested in crafts stuff if something requires real understanding or if it is a challenge in whatever other way.

  8. #18
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fun in the Sun View Post
    When people compliment me for being able to draw, paint, fix my car, or remodel my house, they will sometimes tell me that I have a gift and that they wish they could do those things too. I will often tell them that they could do it too if they give it a try. I am surprised at the number of these people that respond in the negative. They tell me that a person either has it or they don't, and they just don't have it. I am amazed by this. I never would've been able to do any of the things I have if I at least didn't try. How many of you run into similar responses. Are SPs just more optimistic in what they think they can accomplish and just do it? Are we just more practiced? Is it really just innate?
    On the one hand, I do think certain personalities/types are more prone to being good at one thing or another, but on the other, even then, effort goes into it.

    James Keenan of the band, Tool, was asked, or kind of told by an interviewer that they were into a lot of really interesting and crazy stuff. That it was really impressive and that the band were like some kind of super awesome freaks of nature and Maynard just said, "We don't know anything that can't be learned."

    I thought that was a really cool quote.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

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  9. #19
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    In class, we were assigned 10 visual concepts for this Farmer's Market in Atlanta.

    We had some guidelines, like basically the idea was "City meets Nature."

    Most of the people in the class said they spent 10-20 hours coming up with ideas.

    I was blown away. I drank an Amp energy drink and came up with 10 concepts, sketched out on some random pieces of paper.

    It took me about 15 minutes.

    Haha, so when people started presenting I was like FUCK, 15 hours??

    The people before me are placing these concept drawings, freaking paintings, some of them, up on the board and I was thinking, I'm going to fail this class.

    The teacher was this hard ass, and was pretty much crapping on everyone.

    Then I go.

    I'm literally ripping (carefully) some of my drawings out of my sketch pad, digging around for the ones on copy paper.

    I pin them up and the teacher like craps his pants he loves them so much.

    So, he called me the Concept King, and so did everyone else.

    BUT as easy as that stuff is for me, I SUCK at following through.

    So it's still all about people's strengths and weaknesses. I was always floored by some peoples' craftsmanship.

    I suppose I COULD do some of it, but I wouldn't have the patience. I'm a pretty classic ENTP. Ideas. Follow through? What do you mean, the idea is right there? haha, what's next?

    But yeah, I have a lot of respect for people that make purty things. I think some people just don't enjoy the process of making them. And when you don't enjoy it, it doesn't always turn out so awesome.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

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