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[ISTP] Can you spot the fake istp?

Eye of the Potato

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I identify with MBTI ISTP and Jung's description of introverted thinking. I am much more like Kant or Nietzsche than Einstein. The kind of extraverted thinking mental imagery that Einstein used to see how gravity warps spacetime is not my first nature.

The MBTI has very strong correlations with the Big 5 and both have very strong test-retest reliability. Thus, I must ask on what basis that Socionics has been validated as an "evolved" version of the MBTI.

Yeah I can see where you're coming from. From a Ti perspective, you see the information elements logically and so you looked at how Ti functions operate and based your typing on that, which is actually how Socionics bases it's reasoning in typing people. The founder of it, Was entp. They don't use four letters like in mbti. Myers briggs were both feelers. They got the characters right, but they didn't really undersrand how the functions worked from a logical point of view. I'm a feeler too, so for me the emphasis is on the character of the mbti istp and how that matches up with the socionics istp. They're both badasses. The istj's in both systems don't like change. They both have weak Ne basically. I don't care about the small details, because Ti is my weakest function. That's why the istj is my oposite. And why I call an mbti istj my opposite even though mbti says he leads with Si. Mbti is wrong in that little detail so I overlook it.

Socionics is all about studying the functions and what they do and how the lack of these functions effects a person and what functions need each other for balance. Ti needs Fe for instance. An enfj or esfj's Fe is great for bringing Ti back from the brink if it goes too deep into thought. It brings relief by bringing you back into the land of people and life and enjoyment.

Mbti defines the functions differently to Jung. If you look online on any mbti site, you see so many different interpretations for what Si and Ti are. And they just don't match up to how Jung described them. Socionics stayed true to how Jung described them and made Jung's writings a little easier to understand. They took his ideas and developed them further by observing the world around them. I say it's the evolved version because they understood the functions better and how the functions work. And because they understood it so well, they were able to figure out how all these functions work together, in a person, as well as society as a whole.
 

Eye of the Potato

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Well this is what Wikipedia says about mbti

The statistical validity of the MBTI as a psychometric instrument has been the subject of criticism. It has been estimated that between a third and a half of the published material on the MBTI has been produced for conferences of the Center for the Application of Psychological Type (which provides training in the MBTI) or as papers in the Journal of Psychological Type (which is edited by Myers-Briggs advocates).[37] It has been argued that this reflects a lack of critical scrutiny.[37][38] Many of the studies that endorse MBTI are methodologically weak.[38][39] A 1996 review by Gardner and Martinko concluded "It is clear that efforts to detect simplistic linkages between type preferences and managerial effectiveness have been disappointing. Indeed, given the mixed quality of research and the inconsistent findings, no definitive conclusion regarding these relationships can be drawn."[38

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator


And this is what it says about Socionics.

Currently socionics widely academic recognition and is taught in over 150 universities in Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan and other CIS countries, Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Romania. Its methods are used in a variety of humanitarian and technical disciplines, as evidenced by more than 800 doctoral theses.[67] International Institute of Socionics and various universities have been performed numerous experiments to test the theory of socionics, which was attended by over 10,000 people.[68]

Socionics has been brought up at conferences on psychology, where its practical applications were discussed. For instance, in 2005, socionics was discussed at the British and East European Psychology Meeting in Kraków, Poland, which was attended by British, American and Eastern European psychologists.[43][69][70] Psychologist Rosemary Nodder from the University of Hertfordshire represented socionics for the event.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socionics
 

Lady_X

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If you knew an istp in real life you'd know. And 2.10 because if an istp was doing a video talking about himself, the last thing he would do is stand like that against the mantel piece. The only time he'd do that is when he's taking the piss. I thought it was the funniest bit, so for comedic purposes, 2.10

You mustn't b an enfp if you can't spot the real one in these vids. An enfp would get it cos they lived what the enfp is talking about. You just can't fake that stuff.

No i'd really like to know who you think the enfp is here.
As you may have guessed I don't just automatically assume you're an authority on them and would know better than I would.

One of them ( the last girl) is a person from personality cafe and as far as I know she is enfp.

But I'd like to see the one you think is.
 

Eye of the Potato

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No i'd really like to know who you think the enfp is here.
As you may have guessed I don't just automatically assume you're an authority on them and would know better than I would.

One of them ( the last girl) is a person from personality cafe and as far as I know she is enfp.

But I'd like to see the one you think is.

So just because she hung out in PerC you think that automatically means she must be an enfp?

Did you watch all the videos all the way through?
 

Lady_X

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So just because she hung out in PerC you think that automatically means she must be an enfp?

Did you watch all the videos all the way through?

I don't even hang out there but have for a day or two here and there and my impression was that she was.

And no I said that I didn't watch them all the way through. They were annoying. I watched more of that girls and the one that wanted to be an actress and a singer.

I don't know why you gotta be so extra super vague about the whole thing. I just wanted to know who you thought was and why exactly would you think you know.
 

Eye of the Potato

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I don't even hang out there but have for a day or two here and there and my impression was that she was.

And no I said that I didn't watch them all the way through. They were annoying. I watched more of that girls and the one that wanted to be an actress and a singer.

I don't know why you gotta be so extra super vague about the whole thing. I just wanted to know who you thought was and why exactly would you think you know.

I'd rather leave the video's speak for themselves.

If you're not willing to watch the video's, then it's pointless you answering in this thread.
 

Lady_X

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I'd rather leave the video's speak for themselves.

If you're not willing to watch the video's, then it's pointless you answering in this thread.

Well you're certainly not making it any fun.
 

chaoticbrain

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[MENTION=5418]Lady X[/MENTION]

I'm sure he thought celebok was the fake one, oh and sorry for not getting back to your private message.
 

Eye of the Potato

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Well you're certainly not making it any fun.

Ok look I'll give you a clue. Only one of them is saying anything of substance. The others are waffling on about their own misguided shallow view of what they think an enfp is. Like I said, you have to watch the video's to hear what they are actually saying. It's pointless asking me to tell you if you're not even going to watch them. How are you supposed to learn then?
 

skylights

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the last one?

i didn't watch very much of any of them. they're all super annoying and they all look like they're playing a part. ughh maybe they're just young and impressionable idk

but yeah last person?? the official enfp?

I actually associate a lot with the 3rd one. She seems maybe 7w6 to my 6w7 but I empathize with the way she gets enthusiastic and launches into reflection and then slows down and then gets distracted and has to refocus. I also felt NT during late childhood, like she voices. The first one seems J, maybe even ESTJ with a good dose of Ne, and the second one seems so ExFJ it hurts. The 3rd and 5th one I feel like could be reasonably ENFP. The 4th one, ugh, annoys me too much to watch.

These videos make me realize how much I dislike people making weird voice modulations and thinking they're cute.
 

Eye of the Potato

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I actually associate a lot with the 3rd one. She seems maybe 7w6 to my 6w7 but I empathize with the way she gets enthusiastic and launches into reflection and then slows down and then gets distracted and has to refocus. I also felt NT during late childhood, like she voices. The first one seems J, maybe even ESTJ with a good dose of Ne, and the second one seems so ExFJ it hurts. The 3rd and 5th one I feel like could be reasonably ENFP. The 4th one, ugh, annoys me too much to watch.

These videos make me realize how much I dislike people making weird voice modulations and thinking they're cute.


What's your understanding of an esfj and enfj?

Do you think it's characteristic of their type to NOT like having a schedule to stick to?
 

skylights

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What's your understanding of an esfj and enfj?

Do you think it's characteristic of their type to like not having a schedule to stick to?

I think a J with a free day can be very happy to not have anything scheduled. Like my ESFJ mom - type tested and self-confirmed - today, a Sunday. It's just their tendency to schedule and plan. And as an ENFP e6 I am a rabid planner and always make schedules even for my free days. I struggle to be spontaneous and do things on the fly, just like my ISFJ e9 boyfriend dislikes planning. But underneath those differences, the ESFJ and ISFJ are structured when it comes to dealing with the outside world and I am not, hence J and P.

The 2nd one may well be a P type, but she comes off ExFJ to me. Perhaps she has Soc instinct or e2 and that is coming off Fe to me.

I believe in best-fit type so I find the premise of a "fake" xxxx sort of funny. Sometimes it's clear that a different label would fit better but other times it's not so clear.
 

Eye of the Potato

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Yes, I think a J with a free day can be very happy to not have anything scheduled. Like my ESFJ mom - type tested and self-confirmed - right now. It's just their tendency to schedule and plan.

The 2nd one may well be a P type, but she comes off ExFJ to me. Perhaps she has Soc instinct or e2 and that is coming off Fe to me.

Yeah enfp's can look like esfj's on the surface. We're not all hairy smelly hippies like a lot of people imagine us to be.

The esfj's tendency is to plan and schedule, you are right, but the woman in the second video, said she likes nothing better than to not have anything scheduled. She'd prefer not to be tied down to a schedule. And if that's not her tendency, then she's not an esfj. Because by definition an esfj has a tendency to schedule.
 

skylights

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Yeah enfp's can look like esfj's on the surface. We're not all hairy smelly hippies like a lot of people imagine us to be.

The esfj's tendency is to plan and schedule, you are right, but the woman in the second video, said she likes nothing better than to not have anything scheduled. She'd prefer not to be tied down to a schedule. And if that's not her tendency, then she's not an esfj. Because by definition an esfj has a tendency to schedule.

Well, then maybe she is a P. I did not watch the whole video. I was just surprised to see someone claiming that only one of a list of 5 self-ID'd people was ID'd correctly, and I wanted to see if I disagreed with any - my point being that I could see the 2nd one not being an ENFP, but the 3rd and 5th seem authentic to me. I was not trying to make an argument for the 2nd one's type.

I do think there is an important difference between enjoyment and preference. The enneagram pretty much revolves around the idea that we get stuck in cognitive patterns that are harmful to us but we keep doing them anyway. Just because someone says they like this or that, doesn't mean they're actually regularly choosing it.
 
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