User Tag List

First 7891011 Last

Results 81 to 90 of 103

  1. #81
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sp/sx
    Posts
    815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eye of the Potato View Post
    Actually I have grown heaps in the last few years. I'm far more focused now than I ever was before. I really like the person I have become.
    And it was actually an istp who opened my eyes to everything I was doing wrong. Every single thing he pointed out where I was going wrong was on point.
    And I showed him that he is capable of being in a meaningful relationship. It didn't work out between us, because we both had issues, he didn't respect me cos I was such a mess I suppose, but he did love me and is still trying to get back with me. I don't know. Maybe in time if he grows up I might give things another go. But for now, I'm happy working on making myself happy. I know for a fact he'd be proud of how far I have come. I really do have my shit together. And it was him who woke me up to myself.
    Actually I wasn’t asking whether you were happier; happiness being a transient state that soon resets to default neurochemical levels. I was asking whether you were objectively a more impressive person, and whether had you never seen socionics would that have changed what you are now. But you unintentionally answered my question anyway so it doesn’t really matter

    Quote Originally Posted by Eye of the Potato View Post
    Whatever though. Think whatever you want. This place is starting to give me a headache.
    I’m not surprised, but I am confused, you are fully cognisant of the fact this place started out as a MBTI and cognitive function forum (something you admit to caring little for)? It was at one point called MBTI Central. If ever you were barking up the wrong tree it’s this one. This is probably going to sound extremely condescending; but have you tried the dedicated socionics forums? http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php 16 types had a pretty thriving forum last time I checked there is also socionics.com and a host of Russian sites out there as well. It just seems to put it in an analogy that you really wanted ice cream, and then ended up at a pizza shop; it doesn’t really make a lot of sense. I just don’t believe that you’re going to get the responses you want here.
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”

  2. #82
    Member Eye of the Potato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    99

    Default

    ....................................
    The truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself.

  3. #83
    Member Eye of the Potato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    99

    Default

    You obviously didn't watch the video's of the istp either. And everything I've been saying went right over your head.

    I'll put it another way.

    My sister is a very typical intj. I could show her either type descrption and they would both describe her to a T.

    mbti intj



    INTJ in a Nutshell

    INTJs are analytical problem-solvers, eager to improve systems and processes with their innovative ideas. They have a talent for seeing possibilities for improvement, whether at work, at home, or in themselves.

    Often intellectual, INTJs enjoy logical reasoning and complex problem-solving. They approach life by analyzing the theory behind what they see, and are typically focused inward, on their own thoughtful study of the world around them. INTJs are drawn to logical systems and are much less comfortable with the unpredictable nature of other people and their emotions. They are typically independent and selective about their relationships, preferring to associate with people who they find intellectually stimulating.




    What Makes the INTJ Tick

    INTJs are perceptive about systems and strategy, and often understand the world as a chess board to be navigated. They want to understand how systems work, and how events proceed: the INTJ often has a unique ability to foresee logical outcomes. They enjoy applying themselves to a project or idea in depth, and putting in concentrated effort to achieve their goals.

    INTJs have a hunger for knowledge and strive to constantly increase their competence; they are often perfectionists with extremely high standards of performance for themselves and others. They tend to have a keen interest in self-improvement and are lifelong learners, always looking to add to their base of information and awareness.




    Recognizing an INTJ

    INTJs are typically reserved and serious, and seem to spend a lot of time thinking. They are curious about the world around them and often want to know the principle behind what they see. They thoroughly examine the information they receive, and if asked a question, will typically consider it at length before presenting a careful, complex answer. INTJs think critically and clearly, and often have an idea about how to do something more efficiently. They can be blunt in their presentation, and often communicate in terms of the larger strategy, leaving out the details.

    Although INTJs aren’t usually warm or particularly gregarious, they tend to have a self-assured manner with people based on their own security in their intelligence. They relate their ideas with confidence, and once they have arrived at a conclusion they fully expect others to see the wisdom in their perceptions. They are typically perfectionists and appreciate an environment of intellectual challenge. They enjoy discussing interesting ideas, and may get themselves into trouble because of their take-no-prisoners attitude: if someone’s beliefs don’t make logical sense, the Mastermind typically has no qualms about pointing that out.

    Research on INTJ

    Interesting facts about the INTJ:
    • On personality trait measures, score as Discreet, Industrious, Logical, Deliberate, Self-Confident, and Methodical
    • Among types least likely to suffer heart disease and cardiac problems
    • Least likely of all the types to believe in a higher spiritual power
    • One of two types with highest college GPA
    • Among types with highest income
    • Personal values include Achievement



    Socionics intj

    LIIs are adept at organizing their understanding into structured thought. They may organize their cogitations into categories, diagrams, formulaic descriptions, or complex step by step explanations. LIIs may have an uncanny knack for understanding, constructing, and deconstructing the abstract and delicate internal workings of abstract systems like computers, natural phenomena, gadgets, abstract concepts, mathematical equations, and anything that captures their interest. They may be extremely precise in their understanding and can tend strive for highly detailed realizations. They can be skilled at synthesizing new information and incorporating into their established categories. They are often attracted to fields like mathematics, physics, chemistry, or other areas of study that deal with highly structured information systems.

    LIIs are often highly attuned to the premises of logical consistency and adherence to predefined principles. They may use such unifying principles as a basis off of which to make normative or philosophical judgments and often seek to communicate these ideas to others. LIIs can be difficult for others to understand because they tend to avoid explaining the intermediate steps in their reasoning, seeing only the conclusion as important.

    LIIs are, in the colloquial sense, highly rational creatures and may pride themselves on so being. They may live highly structured or regimented lifestyles and can be quite proactive.

    Extroverted Intuition (Ne, Ne)

    LIIs are greatly in tune with novel connections and the possibilities that exist which they could see their systems and analyses applied towards. They are able to see a myriad of concepts and hence strive to cover different and new fields which have not been touched by their logical analysis. They may avoid harping on one area for too long, instead preferring to expand their theoretical constructs, covering various territory through time; to restrict their logical scope would be to hinder true understanding.

    LIIs' primary focus in developing new ideas is to categorize, systematize, and promote understanding about them. They may tend to see novel ideas that have no implications or relevance to a larger ideational framework as disinteresting and pointless. At the same time, LIIs are often minimally interested in real-world application of their ideas, instead preferring abstract and theoretical speculation. They often tend towards contemplative academic fields which allow for abstract speculation to be realized in concrete conclusions.

    LIIs typically tolerate unusual lifestyles and they usually tolerate differing viewpoints.

    Super-ego block

    Introverted Ethics (Fi, Fi)

    LIIs are capable of understanding their internal feelings and affections, but they tend to place only a subdued importance on the ethical code of their experience. They may take a rather Ti-centric approach to conventional morality. They may see it as their duty to observe general propriety and etiquette, and to be just and preserve their integrity. Their attempts at being proper, good, and ethical may seem stiff, if not forced. At the same time, LIIs do not generally apply moral judgments to others and often do not like to be judged themselves. Nonetheless, LIIs do try to be just, fair, and follow the system of rules that they impose for themselves morally.

    LIIs tend to not readily understand deep personal connections and may be minimally confident in having to assess the nuances or strength of their personal relationships. Such emotions may seem to them to be too subjective and too hard to analyze or understand with any degree of logical precision. They tend to keep all acquaintances at a large psychological distance whether they are strangers or family members or friends, and may not have a deep understanding of interpersonal boundaries or what psychological distance is appopriate to a given social context. LIIs typically struggle in shifting psychological distance and usually end up coming off as dry, stagnant, and formal. They may often have difficulty expressing their sympathies or compassionate side towards others, and can be characteristically blunt and unrespecting of relational boundaries. They also can experience difficulty understanding their disposition or the disposition of others towards them, especially when no obvious emotional signs are given.

    Extroverted Sensing (Se, Se)

    LIIs typically respond poorly to and have difficulty applying volitional pressure. They treat most situations in calculated, rational, and realistic fashions, and they tend to have little response for individuals who operate outside of the boundaries of applying rational criteria to the situation at hand. They often have difficulty impelling others to follow their leadership; in practice, they often work independently. LIIs in possession of a problem that can't be solved intellectually, instead requiring direct personal confrontation may resort to total avoidance; LIIs feel that such a situation would in all likelihood produce only frustration and contempt. They may wish that everyone simply listened to reason.

    LIIs may see attempts to rile them up or spring them into activity as crude, intrusive, and insulting to their intelligence. They may see such pushy or forceful attempts to control them as hopelessly closed-minded and at odds with their sense of intellectual freedom. They may have difficulty adapting to impulsive or spontaneous behavior, instead preferring stable environments that encourage an accepting and warm atmosphere.

    LIIs are often not cognizant of power dynamics and have little interest in who has control over a situation.

    Super-id block

    Extroverted Ethics (Fe, Fe)

    LIIs are usually lacking in outward emotional energy. LIIs may typically seem stiff, cold, rational, unresponsive to emotional concerns, and overly formal in social settings. LIIs may feel uneasy and insecure about their adaptability to social situations. They appreciate the interactive efforts of others to make them feel comfortable, at ease, and a part of the group. They tend to liven up in situations of amusement and conviviality. In situations where they feel comfortable and unconditionally accepted, they may drop their tendency towards aloofness and engage in uncharacteristic silliness.

    LIIs may be highly sensitive to the signs of emotional approval that they receive from others. They may be highly appreciative of displays of emotional warmth and friendliness. They may find normative emotional expectations placed on them to be stifling, and tend to prefer nonjudgmental environments without character scrutiny. Additionally, for fear of emotional reprisal, LIIs often tend to be rather noncritical of others' actions.

    LIIs may be quite susceptible to acting in accordance to the mood of others, and may undervalue the importance of avoiding argumentation on their mental well-being.

    Introverted Sensing (Si, Si)

    LIIs are not naturally very adept at understanding their internal physical needs and may generally neglect them, seeing them as not really worth their time. They may feel a need to present themselves as competent in dealing with their surrounding physical environment to others, and may be disheartened if directly criticized about their lack of environmental or bodily awareness. They tend to appreciate individuals who naturally direct themselves towards attending to the needs of others by force of habit and without explicit direction.

    LIIs can underemphasize the importance of physical well-being and comfort on their overall mental health and functioning.

    Id block

    Extroverted Logic (Te, Te)

    LIIs usually have little interest in thinking of or implementing practical applications for their ideas. They usually display little interest in how the ideas or structures they produce relate to the outside world; instead, they tend to focus primarily on furthering, building upon, and exploring the implications of their internal systems. They may also tend to have little spontaneous inclination to conceptualize situations in terms of efficiency, expenditure of resources, or pragmatic concerns; instead, they may focus more extensively on philosophical or rational principles and structured codes of living -- though many LIIs are not so austere.

    Introverted Intuition (Ni, Ni)

    LIIs often have active imaginations, but usually do not invest much energy in pondering the products of their reflections or considering events of personal history. They are often not terribly concerned with considering trends or patterns/directions of historical interest.




    Yeah. You see. The same person is being described in both systems.
    The truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself.

  4. #84
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sp/sx
    Posts
    815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eye of the Potato View Post
    You obviously didn't watch the video's of the istp either. And everything I've been saying went right over your head.
    As far as I can tell your point is: "hey look at this guy he obviously isn't such and such only a blind person couldn't see; what is this thing you call reason or evidence i know nought of it!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Eye of the Potato View Post

    I'll put it another way.

    My sister is a very typical intj. I could show her either type descrption and they would both describe her to a T.
    oh I cannot believe I actually bothered to do this, but those two descriptions do not match in fact they quite often contradict each, did you even read the descriptions before you posted them? Firstly you should know that back in the 90’s with the fall of communism the heads of socionics tried very hard to integrate the two systems, but ultimately failed. Hence the disclaimer you often find on socionics sites not to try to mix and mingle them.

    I am going to put the MBTI description in blue, and the socionics description in red to avoid confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eye of the Potato View Post
    INTJs are analytical problem-solvers, eager to improve systems and processes with their innovative ideas. They have a talent for seeing possibilities for improvement, whether at work, at home, or in themselves.

    LIIs are adept at organizing their understanding into structured thought. They may organize their cogitations into categories, diagrams, formulaic descriptions, or complex step by step explanations. LIIs may have an uncanny knack for understanding, constructing, and deconstructing the abstract and delicate internal workings of abstract systems like computers, natural phenomena, gadgets, abstract concepts, mathematical equations, and anything that captures their interest. They may be extremely precise in their understanding and can tend strive for highly detailed realizations. They can be skilled at synthesizing new information and incorporating into their established categories. They are often attracted to fields like mathematics, physics, chemistry, or other areas of study that deal with highly structured information systems.


    LIIs' primary focus in developing new ideas is to categorize, systematize, and promote understanding about them. They may tend to see novel ideas that have no implications or relevance to a larger ideational framework as disinteresting and pointless. At the same time, LIIs are often minimally interested in real-world application of their ideas, instead preferring abstract and theoretical speculation. They often tend towards contemplative academic fields which allow for abstract speculation to be realized in concrete conclusions.
    Contradiction 1
    Now in the first piece we have an analytical problem solver; and a problem solver by their very nature are practical and pragmatic people, enjoying theory only up to the point it can be applied. Yet in the second piece the character is described as someone who revels in abstract concepts for abstract concept sake; the idea being vastly more important than the application. This is reinforced by the third quote where they flat out say they have no interest in real world application ie problem solving.


    They are typically independent and selective about their relationships, preferring to associate with people who they find intellectually stimulating.

    LIIs tend to not readily understand deep personal connections and may be minimally confident in having to assess the nuances or strength of their personal relationships. Such emotions may seem to them to be too subjective and too hard to analyze or understand with any degree of logical precision. They tend to keep all acquaintances at a large psychological distance whether they are strangers or family members or friends, and may not have a deep understanding of interpersonal boundaries or what psychological distance is appopriate to a given social context. LIIs typically struggle in shifting psychological distance and usually end up coming off as dry, stagnant, and formal. They may often have difficulty expressing their sympathies or compassionate side towards others, and can be characteristically blunt and unrespecting of relational boundaries. They also can experience difficulty understanding their disposition or the disposition of others towards them, especially when no obvious emotional signs are given.
    Contradiction 2
    The first quote describes a person who needs a person to meet intellectual barriers before a more intimate relationship can begin. The second describe someone on the autism scale, completely unable to connect with anyone.


    INTJs are perceptive about systems and strategy, and often understand the world as a chess board to be navigated. They want to understand how systems work, and how events proceed: the INTJ often has a unique ability to foresee logical outcomes. They enjoy applying themselves to a project or idea in depth, and putting in concentrated effort to achieve their goals.

    LIIs are greatly in tune with novel connections and the possibilities that exist which they could see their systems and analyses applied towards. They are able to see a myriad of concepts and hence strive to cover different and new fields which have not been touched by their logical analysis. They may avoid harping on one area for too long, instead preferring to expand their theoretical constructs, covering various territory through time; to restrict their logical scope would be to hinder true understanding.
    Contradiction 3
    The first quote describe someone who is extremely focused and has set goals; a specialist. The other describes a polymath where the learning itself is the goal.

    They can be blunt in their presentation, and often communicate in terms of the larger strategy, leaving out the details.

    Although INTJs aren’t usually warm or particularly gregarious, they tend to have a self-assured manner with people based on their own security in their intelligence. They relate their ideas with confidence, and once they have arrived at a conclusion they fully expect others to see the wisdom in their perceptions. They are typically perfectionists and appreciate an environment of intellectual challenge. They enjoy discussing interesting ideas, and may get themselves into trouble because of their take-no-prisoners attitude: if someone’s beliefs don’t make logical sense, the Mastermind typically has no qualms about pointing that out.

    LIIs may be highly sensitive to the signs of emotional approval that they receive from others. They may be highly appreciative of displays of emotional warmth and friendliness. They may find normative emotional expectations placed on them to be stifling, and tend to prefer nonjudgmental environments without character scrutiny. Additionally, for fear of emotional reprisal, LIIs often tend to be rather noncritical of others' actions.
    Contradiction Four
    Quote one states a blunt and forceful interactive form of communication. Quote two reinforces this and relates a calm confident persona. Quote three shows someone who is uncomfortable and scared often, and who needs to feel safe to communicate properly, and someone who is in no shape or form self-confident



    Yeah. You see. The same person is being described in both systems.
    No I’m afraid I actually bothered to read the descriptions, and I’m not going to lie my dissection was extremely half arsed; I could have probably torn them down further had I the inclination. As I stated at the start of this post: Socionics experts tried to integrate the system and failed; what makes you so confident that you can put humpdy dumpdy back together again?
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”

  5. #85
    Member Eye of the Potato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    99

    Default

    What are u talking about? The fall of communism?????
    It was developed independently of mbti in the 70's. How can you not know that?

    Are you afraid the Commies are going to come and get you or something? ha ha ha That's fucking hilarious.




    Socionics is a branch of psychology that studies relationships between psychological types. It is based on somewhat modified system of psychological types described by C.G.Jung in his Psychological Types (1916, 1920 etc.) and Tavistock Lectures (1935).

    You also know a different version of Jungian typology known as the Myers-Briggs Type Theory (MBTT). It is based on the test called Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI). It is well known in the US, and for the last years in Europe as well.

    The Myers-Briggs Type Theory is sometimes confused with socionics, although there are some differences between these two theories. Let us describe them shortly:
    1.Different methods of type evaluation. MBTT almost completely relies upon tests, while socionics from the beginning developed alternative methods – determining type by interviewing, observation, etc. Verbal testing is considered as a secondary, not primary method, because it says nothing about the nature of types. This does not mean that tests are not known in socionics. For example we the authors of this article developed the Socionic Multifactor Test, which we are going to discuss below. In the last years socionics focuses on biological parameters of types.
    2.Somewhat different definitions of the 4 basic type criteria. In MBTT, the type is defined as 4 basic choices: extraversion (E) or introversion (I), sensing (S) or intuition (N), thinking (T) or feeling (F), judgment (J) or perception (P). Socionics uses terms logic/ethic – instead of thinking/feeling, and rationality/irrationality – instead of perception/judgment. However, more important is the contents of these definitions, they do not always coincide.
    3.Intertype relationships. Although several representatives of MBTT proposed their own views on compatibility between the Myers-Briggs types, a thorough theory of intertype relationships does not exist in MBTT. By contrast, Socionics, from the very beginning, was created as a theory describing and explaining some regularities of relations between people.

    On the other hand, there is also a lot in common between these two theories. Main fields of application are the same: family and business consulting, education etc. When first publications about MBTT appeared in the former USSR (a very short overview appeared in 1984, and several popular books were translated since 1994), socionists found a lot of useful information there. We believe in fruitful cooperation between these two branches of Jungian typology is possible; we should not forget about the differences, but we believe they can be resolved.




    There now, that's copied and pasted from this site.

    http://www.socioniko.net/en/articles/lytovs-intro1.html

    Where's your proof to back up what your claiming?

    Come on. Where is it?


    Your first point. (I'll color yours brown cos of your shitty condescending attitude. )

    Contradiction 1
    Now in the first piece we have an analytical problem solver; and a problem solver by their very nature are practical and pragmatic people, enjoying theory only up to the point it can be applied. Yet in the second piece the character is described as someone who revels in abstract concepts for abstract concept sake; the idea being vastly more important than the application. This is reinforced by the third quote where they flat out say they have no interest in real world application ie problem solving
    .





    INTJs are analytical problem-solvers, eager to improve systems and processes with their innovative ideas. They have a talent for seeing possibilities for improvement, whether at work, at home, or in themselves.

    Often intellectual, INTJs enjoy logical reasoning and complex problem-solving. They approach life by analyzing the theory behind what they see, and are typically focused inward, on their own thoughtful study of the world around them. INTJs are drawn to logical systems and are much less comfortable with the unpredictable nature of other people and their emotions. They are typically independent and selective about their relationships, preferring to associate with people who they find intellectually stimulating.






    LIIs are adept at organizing their understanding into structured thought. They may organize their cogitations into categories, diagrams, formulaic descriptions, or complex step by step explanations. LIIs may have an uncanny knack for understanding, constructing, and deconstructing the abstract and delicate internal workings of abstract systems like computers, natural phenomena, gadgets, abstract concepts, mathematical equations, and anything that captures their interest. They may be extremely precise in their understanding and can tend strive for highly detailed realizations. They can be skilled at synthesizing new information and incorporating into their established categories. They are often attracted to fields like mathematics, physics, chemistry, or other areas of study that deal with highly structured information systems.


    See. One says theory, the other one says abstract. They're basically the same thing.
    You're just cherry picking, to make your point. Why did you leave out the second paragraph of the mbti description that says they approach life by analysing the theory?
    WHY????



    You're second point.


    Contradiction 2
    The first quote describes a person who needs a person to meet intellectual barriers before a more intimate relationship can begin. The second describe someone on the autism scale, completely unable to connect with anyone.



    INTJs are drawn to logical systems and are much less comfortable with the unpredictable nature of other people and their emotions.They are typically independent and selective about their relationships. They can be blunt in their presentation, .


    LIIs are capable of understanding their internal feelings and affections, but they tend to place only a subdued importance on the ethical code of their experience. They may take a rather Ti-centric approach to conventional morality. LIIs tend to not readily understand deep personal connections and may be minimally confident in having to assess the nuances or strength of their personal relationships. Such emotions may seem to them to be too subjective and too hard to analyze or understand with any degree of logical precision. They tend to keep all acquaintances at a large psychological distance whether they are strangers or family members or friends, and may not have a deep understanding of interpersonal boundaries or what psychological distance is appopriate to a given social context. LIIs typically struggle in shifting psychological distance and usually end up coming off as dry, stagnant, and formal. They may often have difficulty expressing their sympathies or compassionate side towards others, and can be characteristically blunt and unrespecting of relational boundaries. They also can experience difficulty understanding their disposition or the disposition of others towards them, especially when no obvious emotional signs are given.





    They're not so different.

    I'll leave it at that for now cos I have shit to do. I'll answer in more detail when I have more time.
    The truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself.

  6. #86
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sp/sx
    Posts
    815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eye of the Potato View Post
    What are u talking about? The fall of communism?????
    It was developed independently of mbti in the 70's. How can you not know that?

    Are you afraid the Commies are going to come and get you or something? ha ha ha That's fucking hilarious.

    On the other hand, there is also a lot in common between these two theories. Main fields of application are the same: family and business consulting, education etc. When first publications about MBTT appeared in the former USSR (a very short overview appeared in 1984, and several popular books were translated since 1994), socionists found a lot of useful information there.
    For crying out loud do you actually read anything you post? Because if you did you would have noticed that all the answers to your questions are in there. Firstly notice how it says USSR? The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, next notice the dates 1994, which was five years after the Berlin Wall, fell down, and three years since Gorbachev made the famous phone call. This is to say it is after the fall of communist Russia; which had you bothered to read the link you so graciously provided, you would have come across the part where it says it was developed in Lithuania (part of the USSR) in the 1970’s, by Augusta with her Model A.

    We believe in fruitful cooperation between these two branches of Jungian typology is possible; we should not forget about the differences, but we believe they can be resolved.[/I]
    Yeah this actually supports my statements. Notice the key word here believe, as in hope that one day the differences between the two systems can be resolved, as in I hope that one day I will win the lottery. Not that they have in fact been resolved, and are now compatible; if your very own experts are telling you that they haven’t figured it out yet, who are with such confidence to state otherwise?


    Your first point. (I'll color yours brown cos of your shitty condescending attitude. )
    Clever , but I’m sure if you put that much effort in to actually reading your sources we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.

    See. One says theory, the other one says abstract. They're basically the same thing.
    Theory and abstract is not the same thing. A theory at some point has a hypothesis, which at some point will be tested to prove or disprove the theory. Abstract has no such form, I mean consider Picasso and abstract painting; the purpose of abstract is to the abstract itself.


    You're just cherry picking, to make your point. Why did you leave out the second paragraph of the mbti description that says they approach life by analysing the theory?
    WHY????
    No I was not cherry picking, cherry picking would have only been applicable if I was doing some sort of similar versus dissimilar comparison. All I was doing was showing contradictions in the profile parts where they obviously do not match up.


    They're not so different.
    Look if you brought up all the profiles for INTs they would undoubtedly look similar, hell if you brought up all the IXTX profiles they would have similarities. But the fact of the matter is that they do not much up on key points, no matter how similar they may be.


    I'll leave it at that for now cos I have shit to do. I'll answer in more detail when I have more time.
    Please don’t bother I’m out you can go back to posting videos of people who apparently infuriate you. Look it is really well known that MBTI and socionics suffer from problems trying to cross over so I’m going to leave you with a few links, but honestly just google MBTI and Socionics conversion, and see for yourself the complete lack of consensus.

    http://www.socionics.com/articles/howto.htm
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...n-to-Socionics
    http://socionic.info/et/asimbieng.html
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”

  7. #87
    Member Eye of the Potato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    99

    Default

    You know. I didn't come here to argue with istj's. I came here to show the istp's what an istp looks like and what an enfp looks like. Their introverted sensing and their extroverted thinking will let them know what's what.

    The istp in the video had a lot of helpful advice for istp's. He's 55. He's an elder. He should be respected and listened to. If the istp kids today listened to what he has to say, and didn't bolt out the door and drive off at high speed, every time they have to talk about their feelings, and understand what they mean. There's nothing to be afraid of, it's all good. Understanding the emotional side to reality would make their lives much easier and with a deeper understanding of things they'd be in a position to master all sorts of very cool shit. Once this information gets into the minds of thousands of istp's, en masse, lots of cool shit will begin to happen. I want to live in a world where cool shit gets made and cool shit gets said and cool shit gets done. I want to live in a world where istp's see themselves as supermen who aren't afraid to try anything. I don't want to live in a world with brooding istp's hiding in their bedrooms with their Xbox's. There's no need for it.

    The only way to resolve the mbti/socionics debacle is for mbti to be gracious enough to learn from Socioncs, the way the Socionists were gracious enough to say that mbti had some merit. And admit that they got the function order wrong.

    There are istj's on this forum and PerC, who have typed themselves istp because they used the method Socionics uses, which is to make an effort first to learn how the functions are defined, and base your typing on which functions you predominantly use. They are on an mbti forum,using Socionics methods, and ironically most of them detest Socionics. Which would make sense, because istj's don't typically like that which is foreign. And if they spent a long time being accustomed to mbti, I can see why they'd want to shun the other.
    The truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself.

  8. #88
    Member Eye of the Potato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    99

    Default

    I know one istp very well. You only need to see one tree to know what a tree looks like.
    The truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself.

  9. #89
    Member Eye of the Potato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    99

    Default

    They can be blunt in their presentation, and often communicate in terms of the larger strategy, leaving out the details.

    Although INTJs aren’t usually warm or particularly gregarious, they tend to have a self-assured manner with people based on their own security in their intelligence. They relate their ideas with confidence, and once they have arrived at a conclusion they fully expect others to see the wisdom in their perceptions. They are typically perfectionists and appreciate an environment of intellectual challenge. They enjoy discussing interesting ideas, and may get themselves into trouble because of their take-no-prisoners attitude: if someone’s beliefs don’t make logical sense, the Mastermind typically has no qualms about pointing that out.

    LIIs may be highly sensitive to the signs of emotional approval that they receive from others. They may be highly appreciative of displays of emotional warmth and friendliness. They may find normative emotional expectations placed on them to be stifling, and tend to prefer nonjudgmental environments without character scrutiny. Additionally, for fear of emotional reprisal, LIIs often tend to be rather noncritical of others' actions.

    Contradiction Four
    Quote one states a blunt and forceful interactive form of communication. Quote two reinforces this and relates a calm confident persona. Quote three shows someone who is uncomfortable and scared often, and who needs to feel safe to communicate properly, and someone who is in no shape or form self-confident





    Where you're going wrong here is that you're overlooking the fact that the third one is describing an intj when dealing with emotions. He's only low in self confidence in this area. That's why he can sometimes be blunt. I'm not pointing that out to argue. I'm pointing it out for you to consider.

    And the difference between the top two and the third one, was that the top two were referring to peoples illogical beliefs. The third one describes being non critical of others actions.
    The truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself.

  10. #90
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sp/sx
    Posts
    815

    Default

    Oh damn it, look I’m not trying to pick a fight by stepping in here again I swear, I’ll leave after this. It’s just that you seem a little lost and confused by the reaction you’re getting from MBTI forums. I just think that maybe you aren’t aware of the direction that MBTI is and has been taking for some time. MBTI and cognitive functions want to be taken seriously by the APA, (The American Psychological Association; the biggest and most influential psychology institute in the world.)For that to happen they need to meet set criteria using scientific methodology (double blind studies, MRI scans, consistent and able to be reproduced data.). If they were to succeed MBTI would go from being used mainly in large scale businesses, to being used everywhere and for everything in the western world, in other words an insanely lucrative position to be in. This is why there is no push from the MBTI side to try to integrate with Socionics; because that wouldn’t help meet that goal. That attitude has a flow on effect, which leads to the apathy you have no doubt in counted. Anyway I hope that was in some way enlightening, and I’ll leave you to it.
    Last edited by Dr Mobius; 11-18-2013 at 11:37 PM. Reason: spelling
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”

Similar Threads

  1. [JCF] Can You Spot It? Recognizing The 8 Cognitive Processes
    By highlander in forum Typology and Psychology Book Reviews
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 12-17-2015, 08:18 PM
  2. Can you spot the liar?
    By gromit in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-17-2015, 09:27 PM
  3. Can you see the blinders?
    By coberst in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-10-2009, 01:33 PM
  4. Can You See The Patterns..?
    By wustvn in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-07-2008, 07:33 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO