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[MBTI General] ISTP communication barrier with ISTJ?

MacKellar

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All right, let me lay it out for you. My younger brother is an ISTP. He's really smart, technical, spends hours working on models of plastic cars and the like. He likes to walk on the wild side, and takes his time with tasks unless he feels the need to move faster. He'd also direct, tactless, and likes things to be expressed to him clearly the first time: No hidden double meanings and no mind reading.

Our mother is an ISTJ. She's fairly reasonable, always supportive, usually very calm and good at creating order among chaos. She'll listen to other ideas and allow people to take over if they're better equipped for the situation. She likes things to be in a just so and for it to all work out right the first time.

So this is where I need a little insight. My brother is budding into his twenties, and still has the teenager attitude of 'I know everything.' These two have been butting heads like crazy! My mother says something and it sets my brother off, or vice versa. They are both incredible stubborn and rather insensitive to the emotions they are stirring up in the other person. And once they start, there is little reasoning with them. They make my poor head hurt! Reason just doesn't seem to penetrate and there is nothing but hurt feelings and no one is ready to apologize to the other.

So what I'm asking for is a little help and insight to help my mother and brother bridge this communication gap. God knows I have tried to step in before it gets too heated and reason with the both of them. Sometimes it works, most times it doesn't.

So: Is there a communication barrier between ISTP and ISTJ? And if so, what are your suggestions?
 

sLiPpY

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Not enough information as to what the central issue seems to be at the point where they are "butting heads." It may simply be that the relationship is in process of changing from one of parent to child, to one of a young adult needing space to discover who they are as an individual. Vs. who we were as part of the family of origin experience.

My advice to you is to simply ignore it; or remove yourself and go do something if/when it becomes bothersome. You are not responsible for "their" relationship. You are only responsible for tending your own relation to your mother or brother as unique individuals.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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My mom is an ISTJ and while we are very close there are 2 main things that bugged the crap out of me while living together. She needs things to be perfect. The first time. Well, when you are learning you aren't going to be perfect. You will make mistakes. Hopefully learn from them. To an ISTP this is natural. I have felt that my mom "shuts me down" before I've taken off. I want to tell her to relax. They tend to over worry and micro-manage.

Your brother should move out soon as possible or he has to tow her line to keep peace. ISTJ's can't be reasoned with concerning our logic. We spread out and can be imperfect (in their eyes but really we are building knowlege in an area that ISTJs might not be aware of) They freak out and interpret that as not being competent. It was very frustrating. Until the ISTP can get their own space they sort of have to grudgingly respect that ISTJ's space.
 

countrygirl

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It hurts to watch two people you love go at each other. But I agree with slippy, YOU stay out of it if only for your own peace of mind. It's their relationship to work out.

I'm not sure why your twenty something brother is living at home but he needs to respect that he lives in his parent(s) house and all the rules that goes with it, ESPECIALLY if your parent(s) are paying for everything ie food, bills, etc. If he needs space, then he should considered moving out.

EDIT: I didn't realize that your brother is going into his twenties until I re-read your post. But he still might have to consider moving out if he need his space.
 

Habba

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I don't really know many ISTPs, but I'd guess the factor here is J-parent vs. P-children.

ISTJ, as a parent, probably wants to protect her child as much as possible. They'd want their children to study/work rigorously so that they'd have a stable future. It is in ISTJ nature to try and understand all the factors in play and try to minimize the risks and maximaze the results. This leads ISTJs to understand themselves and their part in social structures very well.

For what I know, ISTPs usually go with the flow and have innate interesting in things around them. Rathering than building/defining their own environment, they test and adapt to foreign environments. They need to see their limits to better understand themselves. This is why they are often associated with extreme sports and exciting sensory experiences. ISTPs are probably the most common motorcyclist-type. :D This is also the "Trial-and-error" type of personality. Yes, they are going to fail and get hurt often, but that's how they learn the best.

What I believe is the conflict here is the conflict of safe-keeping and trial-and-error views of life, which is only amplified by the mother-child relationship. ISTJ mother needs to better understand the need for independency of ISTP, where as the ISTP needs to better understand the worrying point of his mother.

I had a strife with my ESTP friend, largely because I felt he was independable, reckless and insensitive. He was always fun to have a round, but I never could trust his word. I asked him not to lie on a simple matter, he said he was not lying and when I caught him lying, he just said it was just a funny joke. A simple matter really, but showed how I could not trust his word one bit. So now I've decided that I'll only see him for fun. I take my personal matters elsewhere.

Then again, I have no idea what's going on. :huh:
 

StephMC

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I agree with the whole not getting involved in their dispute thing. I've done it, and I've regretted it. I've come to the conclusion that the most loving/helpful thing I can do for disputing family members is let them learn how to resolve it on their own. If I get dragged in, I'm taking that away from them. I'm not helping them, and I'm certainly not helping me. Your young brother will continue to struggle with disputes unless he's able to practice.

Buuuut, since the point of your post wasn't to be told not to get involved, I'll humor it a bit.

I've definitely had communication barriers with ISTJs in the past, even ones I like and respect. It's kind of funny to think about after the fact: we're both equally interested in getting on the same page but it's almost as if we speak different languages and have only a couple dozen words in common that we're able to use. I once had an ISTJ project manager I started to resent because of all of his hyper-worrying. It felt suffocating. It took me reaaallly trying to put myself in his shoes for me to do anything differently. He felt my work was directly correlated with how he was going to be judged (he was the type that always "joked" about being fired if he didn't do something 100%), and his not knowing all of the nitty-gritty details of what I was working on at all times stressed him the @#$% out. After I came to terms with that, I was a little more considerate. I still didn't think it was necessary, but I did it anyways. Granted... after a while of that, I kind of pushed for a different project manager, so I don't know how helpful that is :doh:

But... if your brother comes for advice, maybe appeal to his Fe (in a nice, non-guilt tripping way). But, if my story is any example, even if your brother becomes more considerate of your mother, she'll need to come to terms with his independence too, otherwise he'll end up pushing back once again. I can only give advice on how to communicate to your ISTP though. Perhaps an ISTJ can chime in on how to give advice to her?
 

Azure Flame

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All right, let me lay it out for you. My younger brother is an ISTP. He's really smart, technical, spends hours working on models of plastic cars and the like. He likes to walk on the wild side, and takes his time with tasks unless he feels the need to move faster. He'd also direct, tactless, and likes things to be expressed to him clearly the first time: No hidden double meanings and no mind reading.

Our mother is an ISTJ. She's fairly reasonable, always supportive, usually very calm and good at creating order among chaos. She'll listen to other ideas and allow people to take over if they're better equipped for the situation. She likes things to be in a just so and for it to all work out right the first time.

So this is where I need a little insight. My brother is budding into his twenties, and still has the teenager attitude of 'I know everything.' These two have been butting heads like crazy! My mother says something and it sets my brother off, or vice versa. They are both incredible stubborn and rather insensitive to the emotions they are stirring up in the other person. And once they start, there is little reasoning with them. They make my poor head hurt! Reason just doesn't seem to penetrate and there is nothing but hurt feelings and no one is ready to apologize to the other.

So what I'm asking for is a little help and insight to help my mother and brother bridge this communication gap. God knows I have tried to step in before it gets too heated and reason with the both of them. Sometimes it works, most times it doesn't.

So: Is there a communication barrier between ISTP and ISTJ? And if so, what are your suggestions?

One of them speaks in objective logic (ISTJ), the other speaks in subjective logic (ISTP).

He probably thinks he knows "everything" because he thinks on the fly. He doesn't need to know anything more than what he himself is compelled to learn. Statements like, "you're young and don't have experience" are often condescending and give no credit to his creative genius, and often assume the person should live life the same way an ISTJ should (recalling experience).

Having lived with an ESTJ and INTJ parents, I'm totally on the ISTP's side.

Is the ISTP doing drugs?
Is he going to jail?
Is his life a wreck?

if no, then everyone should just leave ISTP the fuck alone.
/projection
 
T

The Iron Giant

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Not enough information as to what the central issue seems to be at the point where they are "butting heads." It may simply be that the relationship is in process of changing from one of parent to child, to one of a young adult needing space to discover who they are as an individual. Vs. who we were as part of the family of origin experience.

My advice to you is to simply ignore it; or remove yourself and go do something if/when it becomes bothersome. You are not responsible for "their" relationship. You are only responsible for tending your own relation to your mother or brother as unique individuals.

I couldn't have said it better myself.
 

MacKellar

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Thank you for the replies.

As more than one person mentioned ‘stay out of it’ I’ll reply to you all as one.

My brother and mother have lived apart for a little over a year (I apologize for not mentioning this previously.) Their communication style has not improved much, except for maybe the fact it takes a bit longer for them to get fired up. I do not live with them, so what happens when I’m not around is not my concern.

What is my concern is when it happens in my space. If we have to plan something, whatever that something is, their inability to communicate affects our ability accomplish things as a unit. Or, if they are in my home and have a break down in communication, they get loud (very loud) which distresses my child. Then it does become my concern. My point of posting is not so much ‘Hey can I fix these two people’ as it is more ‘how can I better help them when I’m involved in some way short of putting each of them in their own corner.’

My mom is an ISTJ and while we are very close there are 2 main things that bugged the crap out of me while living together. She needs things to be perfect. The first time. Well, when you are learning you aren't going to be perfect. You will make mistakes. Hopefully learn from them. To an ISTP this is natural. I have felt that my mom "shuts me down" before I've taken off. I want to tell her to relax. They tend to over worry and micro-manage.

My mother is like this all the time, and my brother is very trial and error. So I can see where that’s an issue. Since a lot of their fights stem from accomplishing something, I suppose it escalating into a fight can only be expected.

I don't really know many ISTPs, but I'd guess the factor here is J-parent vs. P-children.

ISTJ, as a parent, probably wants to protect her child as much as possible. They'd want their children to study/work rigorously so that they'd have a stable future. It is in ISTJ nature to try and understand all the factors in play and try to minimize the risks and maximize the results. This leads ISTJs to understand themselves and their part in social structures very well.

For what I know, ISTPs usually go with the flow and have innate interesting in things around them. Rathering than building/defining their own environment, they test and adapt to foreign environments. They need to see their limits to better understand themselves. This is why they are often associated with extreme sports and exciting sensory experiences. ISTPs are probably the most common motorcyclist-type. :D This is also the "Trial-and-error" type of personality. Yes, they are going to fail and get hurt often, but that's how they learn the best.

What I believe is the conflict here is the conflict of safe-keeping and trial-and-error views of life, which is only amplified by the mother-child relationship. ISTJ mother needs to better understand the need for independency of ISTP, where as the ISTP needs to better understand the worrying point of his mother.

This makes a whole lot of sense to me. My mother has been very protective of all of us her entire life. She’s liked things to be just so, and has always wanted to keep us together and on the same page. I am four years older than my brother, and six than our sister, and my mother did everything she could to get us into activities so the three of us could be together (never mind I was usually way over the age limit and my brother was usually disinterested in the thing anyway.)

My brother has always liked to do things in his own way, trial and error style. He never liked being lumped with me any more than I liked being lumped with him. My brother has many similarities to our father and my mother’s eldest brother, neither of whom have their lives together. (Our parents have been separated for almost two decades.) I suppose my mother wants to ensure my brother stays on a successful path, and since ‘mother knows best’ he must feel he can’t explore and learn as he needs.

One of them speaks in objective logic (ISTJ), the other speaks in subjective logic (ISTP).

He probably thinks he knows "everything" because he thinks on the fly. He doesn't need to know anything more than what he himself is compelled to learn. Statements like, "you're young and don't have experience" are often condescending and give no credit to his creative genius, and often assume the person should live life the same way an ISTJ should (recalling experience).

Having lived with an ESTJ and INTJ parents, I'm totally on the ISTP's side.

Is the ISTP doing drugs?
Is he going to jail?
Is his life a wreck?

if no, then everyone should just leave ISTP the fuck alone.
/projection

He’s getting his life together; I wouldn’t call it a wreck. A few misguided choices made here and there, but he’s 21. As mentioned, however, my mother sees similarities in him that are in older and successful ‘bums’ of the family. While he’s not in a bad place now, I can only guess she’s trying to protect him. My brother has always been rather scornful of that, now that I think about it. He's always been rather physically protective of our mother, me, and our younger sister. Not long ago, he walked three miles to a cousin's house with the intent of beating the crap out of said cousin for bad-mouthing our mother on FaceBook. (I caught wind of this intent and sent my husband to intervene before anything happened.)

My brother and husband (ENTP) are really good friends. Perhaps the best solution is to have my husband sort out a plan with my brother, I sort it out with my mother, and then the two of us and iron out the details or where there are holes. Because, from what I’m getting, until my mother and brother realize what they are doing to each other, I can’t hope to have a calm conversation. Yes?
 

Azure Flame

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He’s getting his life together; I wouldn’t call it a wreck. A few misguided choices made here and there, but he’s 21. As mentioned, however, my mother sees similarities in him that are in older and successful ‘bums’ of the family. While he’s not in a bad place now, I can only guess she’s trying to protect him. My brother has always been rather scornful of that, now that I think about it. He's always been rather physically protective of our mother, me, and our younger sister. Not long ago, he walked three miles to a cousin's house with the intent of beating the crap out of said cousin for bad-mouthing our mother on FaceBook. (I caught wind of this intent and sent my husband to intervene before anything happened.)

My brother and husband (ENTP) are really good friends. Perhaps the best solution is to have my husband sort out a plan with my brother, I sort it out with my mother, and then the two of us and iron out the details or where there are holes. Because, from what I’m getting, until my mother and brother realize what they are doing to each other, I can’t hope to have a calm conversation. Yes?

How are we defining "bum"?

We're talking about an ISTP here. Struggle is what STP's live for, and there's no struggle like living with torn jeans, a camo shirt and chopping wood for a living and living in a trailer.

Shit, if I had the money, I'd buy land, live in a tent, and build a house from scratch just like minecraft.

If I had passive income, I'd be a nomad with blonde dreads.

my XXTJ parents always made it a point to assert their own values onto me. "You need a good job and you should wash your hair every day."

Frankly I can live life however the hell I want to. Its actually a goal of mine to become a beach bum.

STP's learn via trial and error. So I say, let the man try and err.
 

MacKellar

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How are we defining "bum"?

We're talking about an ISTP here. Struggle is what STP's live for, and there's no struggle like living with torn jeans, a camo shirt and chopping wood for a living and living in a trailer.

Shit, if I had the money, I'd buy land, live in a tent, and build a house from scratch just like minecraft.

If I had passive income, I'd be a nomad with blonde dreads.

my XXTJ parents always made it a point to assert their own values onto me. "You need a good job and you should wash your hair every day."

Frankly I can live life however the hell I want to. Its actually a goal of mine to become a beach bum.

STP's learn via trial and error. So I say, let the man try and err.

Oh, no, I am not calling my brother a bum. Please don't get that.

What I mean is he has traits that are similar to people in our family who are less than successful. The prefaced Uncle, my mother's eldest brother, is in his fifties and is still relying heavily upon his mother for financial and emotional support. He has had many life struggles and his solution has never been to learn from them. He falls back to his mother, or has to be bailed out by other family members.

Our father has never held a job longer than five years, save his service to the marine corp. He is very rpoud of his service, and has every right to be, but I have never really seen much of a 'marine' in him growing up. Our father let our mother support the family, he did what he wanted, and when he was holding a job would complain that we didn't appreciate his 'sacrifice' enough. (The sacrifice being that he was working.) He now lives in a small apartment and draws government help and complains about it.

The traits my brother shares with these two men are not related to work ethic. My brother is a hard worker. He has strong principles. He desires to be more. He shares similar opinions as they do, which have little bearing on anything I think. The main thing is my father is very big into sports, especially NASCAR, and knows everything there is to know about it. My uncle knows everything about Star Wars and Godzilla. My uncle did not go to college or vocational school; my Dad attended but did not complete (he went to Vietnam.) The mistakes these men have made they do not seem to have learned much from them. There is always someone else to blame.

My brother knows a whole lot about seemingly useless things (Star Wars, Star Trek, Halo) and has no desire to attend any sort of higher education beyond highschool. Which, to me, is fine. He'll go to school when, and if, he's ready. My mother has always encouraged education, though. School has always been stressed; learning (book learning) has always been stressed. My brother also spends a lot of time playing video games. He takes his XBox almost everywhere with expectation that he will be able to use it.

That, I think, is what may be triggering my mother to fear he may not get very far. I can see the similarities between my brother and these people, but I can see how he isn't going in their direction. He's just, as you've said, trying and erring. Just not the way she wants him to. I suppose while my brother may be living for the struggle, she wants him to not have to?

Frankly I can live life however the hell I want to. Its actually a goal of mine to become a beach bum.

That sounds exactly like him, lol.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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You could talk to each of them separately concerning the fights in your household and how that affects your kid. Ask them each how it gets to that point and what each could do to keep escalation in check. I would let each know that you are going to speak with the other in the same manner.

Maybe if they knew they were causing a problem for you they could curb that behavior. Hopefully, while doing so they could gain some insight about how the other prefers to be treated.
 

Bamboo

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I sympathasize with the desire to reduce the conflict around you not so much because you're trying to fix their problems but because the exposure to their warring is exhausting and disruptive. I've found you end up getting dragged into these things if you're not careful.

I think MDP is on point above but I'd point out a potential pitfall: this could (may) be used as ammunition, one side against the other. "Look how you're effecting MacKellar, that's so like you to bring up this conflict and not take others into consideration." And then begins passive-agressiveness and posturing as people play the start an argument and then cut them off "to keep the peace" game.

Ideally, you can make sure that you're not a "prize" for either of them to win.
 

MacKellar

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I can certainly give it a try. I know my husband will back me up and support that. I understand what you are saying, though Bamboo. I'm sure I can figure out a way to do it so it might not give more fuel to the fire.

I just wish they could stand back, shut up, and find middle ground. Wishful thinking I suppose until they figure it out on their own.
 

Nihon

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There doesn't have to be communication barrier between those types. I'm sort of an ISTJ, though my tendencies aren't very strong. (I can be rather extraverted at times, I like to consider my feelings, I can be a lazy bum sometimes, etc.) I work with an ISTP. He's a great guy. If I had to live with him, I'd probably be irritated though, because I know he hates working and only works because his mother asks him to. He's good at serving customers, but if you talk to him, you'll know that he actually "hates" them all because he doesn't like talking to people and doesn't like that he has to go make their stuff. When he goes home, he sleeps (like I force myself not to do) or plays video games instead of learning anything useful.

Like I said, he's a fun coworker and I'm sure he'd be a good friend, but if I were a parent I would be disappointed that he wasn't trying to live up to his full potential. I would be disappointed if I knew my child weren't trying to do their best and fulfill important goals. And keep in mind that I only have a 55-60% leaning towards ISTJ and your mom... if she's anything like mine...... probably has a 90% leaning. It's hard not to get offended when an ISTJ mom starts telling you how to live, but he's got to remember that she's trying to help the best way she know how, just like she has to remember that he has the right to make his own mistakes or create his own success. ISTJ moms are difficult to handle (I hated mine for years). They devote themselves to making sure that their children are well-raised and are going to have a good education, good work, and enough money in the future. They want stable lives for their children, even if their children don't like stability and certainly aren't interested in working for it.

What they may really need is time. I stopped living with my mother in high school. It actually turned out to be the best choice I ever made and it lead to better choices in the future. However, I've always been very down-to-earth and logical about my choices, so my decision was one that took my safety, everyone else's, and my ability to support myself into account, and I knew that I could go back if anything happened. Some people make decisions like that in the wrong way, for the wrong reasons. Your brother probably knows what he's doing and I think moving away from her will make his life easier, even if she's more worried about him. After you stop living with your parents, it gets easier to understand them and, believe it or not, easier to love them because they aren't dictating the way you live anymore. But he'll need a lot of time - maybe years - before that becomes the case, and she'll need to lay off him for a longer period of time than it sounds like she has been. The things that would always make me angry is when my parents tried to tell me what choices to make. I think your mom just needs to back off for awhile. Be there as a silent support until he comes up against something that he wants help on. He may be stubborn but he doesn't sound like an idiot; if he needs to know something, he'll come ask her. But only if she lets him make his own choices and doesn't force her way down his throat. This will probably be hard for her, but she needs to realize that she can do more good if she supports his decisions than if she tells him how to do everything. Tell her that next time there together, but don't wait until they're already angry or they won't be able to see your point objectively. Start off by making it clear that your not telling them what to do, your just telling them how to treat each other when they're in your domain. Make it equally clear that neither of them are at fault and both of them could do better. Then just try to help your mom loosen her grip a little. She's probably stubborn as heck, so if he sees her actually try to let him do his thing a bit, that might make him happier.

I don't know if that will help you out any, but it's an idea to add to all the others you've received. Hopefully it will be able to help you in some way. :)
 

Poki

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My mom is an ISTJ and while we are very close there are 2 main things that bugged the crap out of me while living together. She needs things to be perfect. The first time. Well, when you are learning you aren't going to be perfect. You will make mistakes. Hopefully learn from them. To an ISTP this is natural. I have felt that my mom "shuts me down" before I've taken off. I want to tell her to relax. They tend to over worry and micro-manage.

Your brother should move out soon as possible or he has to tow her line to keep peace. ISTJ's can't be reasoned with concerning our logic. We spread out and can be imperfect (in their eyes but really we are building knowlege in an area that ISTJs might not be aware of) They freak out and interpret that as not being competent. It was very frustrating. Until the ISTP can get their own space they sort of have to grudgingly respect that ISTJ's space.

This seems to sum it up pretty good. Distance and space works best. I don't general get into it with ISTJ, but I don't generally become best buds either. Best case for me is 2 people who go about things different, but learn to respect each other where respect is due. I can see closeness causing issues. I am to much of a free will and carefree for ISTJ...hell...most ITJs for that matter. I do get along better with INTJs, but still more free will then they like as well.
 

Poki

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There doesn't have to be communication barrier between those types. I'm sort of an ISTJ, though my tendencies aren't very strong. (I can be rather extraverted at times, I like to consider my feelings, I can be a lazy bum sometimes, etc.) I work with an ISTP. He's a great guy. If I had to live with him, I'd probably be irritated though, because I know he hates working and only works because his mother asks him to. He's good at serving customers, but if you talk to him, you'll know that he actually "hates" them all because he doesn't like talking to people and doesn't like that he has to go make their stuff. When he goes home, he sleeps (like I force myself not to do) or plays video games instead of learning anything useful.

Like I said, he's a fun coworker and I'm sure he'd be a good friend, but if I were a parent I would be disappointed that he wasn't trying to live up to his full potential. I would be disappointed if I knew my child weren't trying to do their best and fulfill important goals. And keep in mind that I only have a 55-60% leaning towards ISTJ and your mom... if she's anything like mine...... probably has a 90% leaning. It's hard not to get offended when an ISTJ mom starts telling you how to live, but he's got to remember that she's trying to help the best way she know how, just like she has to remember that he has the right to make his own mistakes or create his own success. ISTJ moms are difficult to handle (I hated mine for years). They devote themselves to making sure that their children are well-raised and are going to have a good education, good work, and enough money in the future. They want stable lives for their children, even if their children don't like stability and certainly aren't interested in working for it.

What they may really need is time. I stopped living with my mother in high school. It actually turned out to be the best choice I ever made and it lead to better choices in the future. However, I've always been very down-to-earth and logical about my choices, so my decision was one that took my safety, everyone else's, and my ability to support myself into account, and I knew that I could go back if anything happened. Some people make decisions like that in the wrong way, for the wrong reasons. Your brother probably knows what he's doing and I think moving away from her will make his life easier, even if she's more worried about him. After you stop living with your parents, it gets easier to understand them and, believe it or not, easier to love them because they aren't dictating the way you live anymore. But he'll need a lot of time - maybe years - before that becomes the case, and she'll need to lay off him for a longer period of time than it sounds like she has been. The things that would always make me angry is when my parents tried to tell me what choices to make. I think your mom just needs to back off for awhile. Be there as a silent support until he comes up against something that he wants help on. He may be stubborn but he doesn't sound like an idiot; if he needs to know something, he'll come ask her. But only if she lets him make his own choices and doesn't force her way down his throat. This will probably be hard for her, but she needs to realize that she can do more good if she supports his decisions than if she tells him how to do everything. Tell her that next time there together, but don't wait until they're already angry or they won't be able to see your point objectively. Start off by making it clear that your not telling them what to do, your just telling them how to treat each other when they're in your domain. Make it equally clear that neither of them are at fault and both of them could do better. Then just try to help your mom loosen her grip a little. She's probably stubborn as heck, so if he sees her actually try to let him do his thing a bit, that might make him happier.

I don't know if that will help you out any, but it's an idea to add to all the others you've received. Hopefully it will be able to help you in some way. :)

I am nothing like what u explained. I am a doer for one and will do things..even chores...do to boredom. I do things for people because I am far from lazy and it gives me something to do. I have always been very active. The reason in am where I am today is be cause of not wanting to be bored And my desire to learn everything.
 

ColonelGadaafi

New member
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
773
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
Si
They just need to learn to listen to each other and be less stubborn. That's all. It's got nothing to do with Personality.
 

McCool

New member
Joined
Oct 27, 2013
Messages
34
MBTI Type
ISTP
truth is with any relationship.....fight... Is that one has to back down and if your brothers an ISTP then your mother will need to be the one! ISTP's are simply fueled by recourse. If she responds in anger then he'll take it to the next level and if she takes to the next level then he'll take it even further! But if she backs down immediately then you brother will forget in a short period of time (10min-24hrs) and not even go their after that:)
 
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