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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbey View Post
    Their lack of intuition makes them dislike theory and not trust their instinct, they can still use logic (Ti) to assess the situation and react quickly because of their dominant here-in-the-moment Se.
    I would not equate iNtuition with instinct.

    I would say many ESTP's have very storng instincts, and trust them very much. More than many NP's do.

  2. #12
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    They do use intuition; it's just subconscious.

    They actually overtrust their intuition, which is why they can be (often fooled into believing they're) several steps ahead of others.

    But fools often tend to believe in overconfident fools, and, as such, fools often tend to believe in their (often undeserved) confidence.

    Their belief in their being several steps ahead of others actually causes it to be the case.

    But, in the end, they're only really ahead of other fools.

  3. #13
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    I define a fool as someone who lacks the power of transformation, that is, they are incapable for further change or personal development - they have no promise for self-mastery. Arrogance placed in a bad spot can indeed be a factor in this detrimental quality.

  4. #14
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    I'd say the answer is pretty obvious:

    Extraverted Sensing occurs when we become aware of what is in the physical world in rich detail.

    We may be drawn to act on what we experience to get an immediate result.

    We notice relevant facts and occurrences in a sea of data and experiences, learning all the facts we can about the immediate context or area of focus and what goes on in that context.

    The process involves instantly reading cues to see how far we can go in a situation and still get the impact we want or respond to the situation with presence.


    http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/Co...ed-Sensing.cfm

    Why would being good at those skills not make you some steps ahead in many situations? Seems obvious to me. Not much "iNtution" required.

    Though those things above may often be called "intuition" int he popular parlance.

    I wonder what @jontherobot has to say, seeing as he and I repeatedly seem to discuss this same issue
    Well when they say that they are "steps ahead" of people, do they mean that they are steps ahead of people in the moment, or like in the long-term? If it's in the moment, it would make sense.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    They do use intuition; it's just subconscious.

    They actually overtrust their intuition, which is why they can be (often fooled into believing they're) several steps ahead of others.

    But fools often tend to believe in overconfident fools, and, as such, fools often tend to believe in their (often undeserved) confidence.

    Their belief in their being several steps ahead of others actually causes it to be the case.

    But, in the end, they're only really ahead of other fools.
    Harsh words.

    Of course the first error, is that this presupposes that iNtution is synonymous with "being a step ahead".

    Of course in many situations dependent on reading physical cues, Se would certainly lead you to be a step ahead of others.

    From that base misconception, of equating iNtution with foresight, the rest of the argument flows.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Well when they say that they are "steps ahead" of people, do they mean that they are steps ahead of people in the moment, or like in the long-term? If it's in the moment, it would make sense.
    I've never heard "them" say it. So you tell me.

  7. #17
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    Dominant Se types will most likely be a few steps ahead of everyone (without the function in a high position) in the moment. It make sense, since they're gathering all the information from the current environment in its "purest" form. They notice small details that others (without high Se) do not. Users of other functions will be looking for different things though, so in their particular way they'll be steps ahead of others; e.g. an Ne user will focusing on future possibilities and be ahead in that sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    I've never heard "them" say it. So you tell me.
    Well it looks like through doing research I have found my answer to this question. The question was asked on personalitycafe on this thread...

    http://personalitycafe.com/estp-foru...ything-16.html

    This question was asked...

    Quote Originally Posted by metalme View Post
    This is a quote from personality page [portrait of an ESTP].



    Could someone please explain this from an ESTP's perspective? To what degree can you read people and what kinds of things do you understand about them? Can you also tell when people are hiding things from you? Plenty of examples would help... thanks ahead

    ESTPs have an uncanny ability to perceive people's attitudes and motivations. They pick up on little cues which go completely unnoticed by most other types, such as facial expressions and stance. They're typically a couple of steps ahead of the person they're interacting with. ESTPs use this ability to get what they want out of a situation.
    An ESTP answered this..

    ESTPs are very good in analysing about anything that is appearing infront of them. With the external sensors, they pick up very tony signals like blink of an eye and the way they smile when they talk and that they look a bit nervous and we already know something is not right... those facial expression doesn't match with their tone of speech and the words. It is very hard to explain in words but I think this might be the best I can do. Lets see if there are anyone who can come out better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Harsh words.
    Truth (sometimes) hurts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Of course the first error, is that this presupposes that iNtution is synonymous with "being a step ahead".
    Actually, your first error is in thinking that's what I claimed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Of course in many situations dependent on reading physical cues, Se would certainly lead you to be a step ahead of others.
    I wonder how it is Se arrives at a determination of the meaning of the physical cue...

    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    From that base misconception, of equating iNtution with foresight, the rest of the argument flows.
    To deny a relationship between foresight and intuition would be a highly questionable act.

  10. #20
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    It's more in their sense of opportunity (rather than thinking over or discussing options, which would be an intuitive/Ne habit) and having no qualms placing themselves at an advantage or exploiting weaknesses. You know those things some people consider, but then go "nah, that's kind of fucked up"? ESTPs tend to not be as restricted. Being several steps ahead is more a matter of everyone else's scruples and restraint.

    Thirdly, they can humor people or rely on social clout to the point that they're admired for these exploits. Look how fucked up Berlusconi is - and yet, he still has a smile on his face. And his fate is undecided.

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