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  1. #21
    Senior Member tibby's Avatar
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    One name came to mind when reading this: Zlatan Ibrahimovic, whom I believe to be an ESTP (and E8, if I'm not terribly mistaken). He has that "look at me I'm a star" & arrogant rep, but if you look closer you'll see that he actually works his butt off to be as good as, well, he is.

    Also I've noticed from a very small sample of ESTPs I've known that their energy levels are just so infectious and massive, that they influence the moods of others around them.. When an ESTP is in love and happy they're bursting happiness around them and infecting people with that positive energy, and when they're not and their energy level has been depleted it's a similar effect but the other way around. And they don't hold back in confrontation / expression one bit either and can be a bit intimidating simply because they are so stubborn, forceful (IME).

    Their moods effect the people around them simply because of the intensity & they have so much energy, from what I've noticed.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibby View Post
    One name came to mind when reading this: Zlatan Ibrahimovic, whom I believe to be an ESTP (and E8, if I'm not terribly mistaken). He has that "look at me I'm a star" & arrogant rep, but if you look closer you'll see that he actually works his butt off to be as good as, well, he is.
    A great player. I found his life story very interesting.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibby View Post
    One name came to mind when reading this: Zlatan Ibrahimovic, whom I believe to be an ESTP (and E8, if I'm not terribly mistaken). He has that "look at me I'm a star" & arrogant rep, but if you look closer you'll see that he actually works his butt off to be as good as, well, he is.

    Also I've noticed from a very small sample of ESTPs I've known that their energy levels are just so infectious and massive, that they influence the moods of others around them.. When an ESTP is in love and happy they're bursting happiness around them and infecting people with that positive energy, and when they're not and their energy level has been depleted it's a similar effect but the other way around. And they don't hold back in confrontation / expression one bit either and can be a bit intimidating simply because they are so stubborn, forceful (IME).

    Their moods effect the people around them simply because of the intensity & they have so much energy, from what I've noticed.
    It really sucks. People come up and harass you when you're in a bad mood, and you become a celebrity when you're in a good mood.

    The bad moods are much more frequent than the good ones.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    Mate, I thought I should leave something for self-improvement. An attitude that I've noticed you display when comparing functions and types is summed up by yourself: "ESTPs are the shit" - in real life, other's might think you see yourself as "I am the shit." I have no idea how you act around others, but I've noticed that when you compare functions and types, you tend to blame others: "Fi-people are too sensitive for good-natured Ti-people, and are not good for anything but art and being followers," or "I don't understand what's wrong with INTJs: why do they not like aggressive arguments and conflict? Why do they like disengaging the opponent and slyly avoiding the topic?" These are clearly not quotes, but views you've expressed in your videos: whiles others have faults, you aren't perfect either: you need to find your own faults and deal with them (I can't say for certain what they are, as you don't like talking about them much).

    Hope this is helpful in some way.
    I have difficulty percieving myself in third person. The only faults I find in myself are, "I don't know enough... yet" or "I'm not strong enough... yet" or "why do I get bored so easily? How do I fix that?" a buncha stuff. A lot of the faults I see in myself I deem as something to fix or... impossible to fix. However other people often view my faults through their own lense and its often times subjective. This is where things get difficult. This leads to questions like, "How come most E3's I talk to are a huge pain in my ass?" "Why do these parasites keep entering my life?" "How come certain people harass me simply after I look at them?"

    Its difficult to know where others are coming from as most of my data is based on hard logical evidence and observation... and since most people would never admit to something like, "you intimidate me" or "I feel like you hate me when you look at me" or whatever the heck is going on, I often have no evidence that I am intimidating, or judgemental. I can see times where I shake someone's hand and peer deep into their eyes and they start trembling, but all I see is trembling. I don't know if its because I'm intimidating, or maybe they're just a little timid, or maybe they're... cold? haha. Its all conjecture at that point.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I have difficulty percieving myself in third person. The only faults I find in myself are, "I don't know enough... yet" or "I'm not strong enough... yet" or "why do I get bored so easily? How do I fix that?" a buncha stuff. A lot of the faults I see in myself I deem as something to fix or... impossible to fix. However other people often view my faults through their own lense and its often times subjective. This is where things get difficult. This leads to questions like, "How come most E3's I talk to are a huge pain in my ass?" "Why do these parasites keep entering my life?" "How come certain people harass me simply after I look at them?"

    Its difficult to know where others are coming from as most of my data is based on hard logical evidence and observation... and since most people would never admit to something like, "you intimidate me" or "I feel like you hate me when you look at me" or whatever the heck is going on, I often have no evidence that I am intimidating, or judgemental. I can see times where I shake someone's hand and peer deep into their eyes and they start trembling, but all I see is trembling. I don't know if its because I'm intimidating, or maybe they're just a little timid, or maybe they're... cold? haha. Its all conjecture at that point.
    I see what you mean: it's one thing when you're aware of what you're doing and another when it's just natural behaviour that others misinterpret. I remember watching your "Fi vs Ti" video, and when you began to say that Fi-people are sensitive and take stuff personally, I instantly thought that you must have had some bad dealings with Fi-people and that you dislike them (personally)...but then you explained that that's just the way you see it! I don't know what to say. Maybe talk to your friends about what you do that pisses them off, and then sort of analyze your activity so that you can see how and when you do that stuff, so that you're better prepared in the future?
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  6. #26
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I have difficulty percieving myself in third person. The only faults I find in myself are, "I don't know enough... yet" or "I'm not strong enough... yet" or "why do I get bored so easily? How do I fix that?" a buncha stuff. A lot of the faults I see in myself I deem as something to fix or... impossible to fix. However other people often view my faults through their own lense and its often times subjective. This is where things get difficult. This leads to questions like, "How come most E3's I talk to are a huge pain in my ass?" "Why do these parasites keep entering my life?" "How come certain people harass me simply after I look at them?"

    Its difficult to know where others are coming from as most of my data is based on hard logical evidence and observation... and since most people would never admit to something like, "you intimidate me" or "I feel like you hate me when you look at me" or whatever the heck is going on, I often have no evidence that I am intimidating, or judgemental. I can see times where I shake someone's hand and peer deep into their eyes and they start trembling, but all I see is trembling. I don't know if its because I'm intimidating, or maybe they're just a little timid, or maybe they're... cold? haha. Its all conjecture at that point.
    hmmm...so to start, I admit ESTPs totally baffle me-I am ignorant of how you perceive or understand the world and I am ignorant of your motivations.

    But growing up I didnt like ESTP much-they always felt mean and hateful. This was my perception of course, assuming they saw the world they way I did-thus must be mean to say the things they did. In reality, they were simply REALLY factual and unaware of the impact their words might have on others and dont have the burden of Fi to weigh them down.

    Age brought me in touch with many other estps and I admit I really liked quite a few of them. like big kids and cleverness and good naturedness.

    I think back to the estp you remind me of...I initially regarded him as extremely slimy and not at all sincere. This is when I perceive him through the lens of Fi. I judged him on my scale, not his own. As I grew to know him, I still regarded him as insincere but also as extremely self centric and arrogant-again, taking his communication style and motives and projecting my own Fi onto him-a mistake. The more I got to know him, the more clever I saw him to be...and the more times I saw him to be sincerely affectionate towards his wife and family and even towards me when he could try and help me out. This forced me to really pay attention and watch my innate judgements towards him...they were totally fucked up with Fi and it is so hard to see past that cloud sometimes.

    I also had to learn to judge the results of his actions, not the insincerity I would perceive in those actions-and I found the results to contain good intent. His methods were just so different from mine-yet he saw many of the same flaws I did-and he worked to fix them -in HIS way, not mine.

    If I project my experiences onto what you describe:

    • it may be you are seen as arrogant due to how you use your voice authoritatively, when you may not be an expert
    • you may be seen as boasting, when you are simply stating facts about what you have accomplished
    • you may be seen as "not pitching in" or helping out (as in the stj miletary scenario), because you "work" in the realm of Fe, not Te. You find ways to accomplish goals through changing how others perceive the situation and motivating them to act and feel in a different manner, by sharing your own spontentatity and perspective of the scenario. This is an amazing ability-but it is so alien to the STJ notion of each person pulling thier fair share, that it may come across as though you were cheating, because you dont have to "do things" to get things done.

      *you may also not show suble externalization of inner Fi values-thus in an stj scenario, you dont "feel" like you are on the same page as them...so they do not trust you


    I hope some of this makes sense.

    I really enjoy estps as they prove to me how stupid I really am and how amazingly diverse we each are-and because it is so obvious to me, I value them greatly (I suspect this motivation makes no sense ha!)

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    hmmm...so to start, I admit ESTPs totally baffle me-I am ignorant of how you perceive or understand the world and I am ignorant of your motivations.

    But growing up I didnt like ESTP much-they always felt mean and hateful. This was my perception of course, assuming they saw the world they way I did-thus must be mean to say the things they did. In reality, they were simply REALLY factual and unaware of the impact their words might have on others and dont have the burden of Fi to weigh them down.

    Age brought me in touch with many other estps and I admit I really liked quite a few of them. like big kids and cleverness and good naturedness.

    I think back to the estp you remind me of...I initially regarded him as extremely slimy and not at all sincere. This is when I perceive him through the lens of Fi. I judged him on my scale, not his own. As I grew to know him, I still regarded him as insincere but also as extremely self centric and arrogant-again, taking his communication style and motives and projecting my own Fi onto him-a mistake. The more I got to know him, the more clever I saw him to be...and the more times I saw him to be sincerely affectionate towards his wife and family and even towards me when he could try and help me out. This forced me to really pay attention and watch my innate judgements towards him...they were totally fucked up with Fi and it is so hard to see past that cloud sometimes.

    I also had to learn to judge the results of his actions, not the insincerity I would perceive in those actions-and I found the results to contain good intent. His methods were just so different from mine-yet he saw many of the same flaws I did-and he worked to fix them -in HIS way, not mine.

    If I project my experiences onto what you describe:

    • it may be you are seen as arrogant due to how you use your voice authoritatively, when you may not be an expert
    • you may be seen as boasting, when you are simply stating facts about what you have accomplished
    • you may be seen as "not pitching in" or helping out (as in the stj miletary scenario), because you "work" in the realm of Fe, not Te. You find ways to accomplish goals through changing how others perceive the situation and motivating them to act and feel in a different manner, by sharing your own spontentatity and perspective of the scenario. This is an amazing ability-but it is so alien to the STJ notion of each person pulling thier fair share, that it may come across as though you were cheating, because you dont have to "do things" to get things done.

      *you may also not show suble externalization of inner Fi values-thus in an stj scenario, you dont "feel" like you are on the same page as them...so they do not trust you


    I hope some of this makes sense.

    I really enjoy estps as they prove to me how stupid I really am and how amazingly diverse we each are-and because it is so obvious to me, I value them greatly (I suspect this motivation makes no sense ha!)
    Wow, this post was amazing. This was the perspective I've been looking for this whole time. Thank you so much!

    Now that I have this info, I can tell people something like, "At first, you're going to think I'm this, this, this and that. I want you to ignore that and pay attention to this and that."

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    I pretty much identify with this post.

    I had so many bosses who went out to crush me. World is full of weasels man, insecure little fuckers trying to treat their little patch as their kingdom.

    For me that's best with start-ups etc. where you can be part of the leadership. Big corporations/state sector, are mainly (perhaps not always) full of power-players going NOWHERE who don't want you to be confident, creative, they just want you to follow the book. That's no good for any TP I think.
    I relate completely to this. My current boss tries to keep me down. I think it's because he knows that I know that he isn't very good, and we both know that I could be his replacement.

    He lies and he puts obstacles / delays in my way. It's so constraining and frustrating to someone like me who just likes to get things done and make progress. He would never behave like this if I was a conformist pen-pusher with no ambition, even though that would make me less useful to the organisation.

    You are exactly right about the dynamics of small entrepreneurial start-ups vs large institutions.

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