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[MBTI General] Am I an Artisan?

PeopleWatcher

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Hi, I am unsure of my type. I have tested as an Artisan and many general Artisan descriptions make sense. However, none of the individual type descriptions of each of the 4 Artisans seem to match me.

I am a math major. This fact makes me think that I am a Thinking type (?). Are there any feeling Artisans that would major in math? I can be outspoken in class. I am very assertive and will not allow people to walk over me. I have always done extremely well in high school and college, but many descriptions say that Artisans are not good with classroom learning. However, I have never struggled in the classroom and I love to learn new things and ideas. I love all subjects.

I am very reclusive. I spend most of my time by myself in my room studying, reading, or listening to music. Even though I may speak up in social situations and express my opinion I am not very outgoing or social in the sense that I hang out with people often.

I usually get things going (take-charge, if you will) when I am in group projects. Everyone else just sits around and stares at each other, so I find I am the one who has to organize everything and gives us a start and execution plan.

I have no artistic skills, really. Many people say I am very creative though. I am not an excellent drawer or painter. I used to play the piano. I am trying to start that again. I have interest in becoming multilingual. I am a good writer and I journalize my thoughts frequently. I am interested in beauty and makeup.

I am leaning towards my being an istp or isfp but none of these descriptions really grab me. However, I have read the biographies of many Artisans and they are a lot like me. I relate to them very much. Barbra Streisand, Cher, Marilyn Monroe, Michael Jackson, Jack and Jackie Kennedy, Elvis, and Elizabeth Taylor are all Artisans that I read about. I see a lot of myself in Elizabeth Taylor, Cher, Jackie Kennedy, and Barbra Streisand. However, none of these women seem to match the isfp/esfp descriptions. They are strong, assertive women like me, an image of the i/esfp that does not come across to me when reading about these types. They also seem very level-headed, not too emotional or weak as an isfp or esfp might come across. Also, Jackie Kennedy and Barbra Streisand excelled in the classroom and loved to learn.

Does anyone have any ideas of what type I seem like from my description of myself or the impression my writing voice gives? Also, does anyone else find a discrepancy between the type descriptions and real life Artisans? I feel a lot of Artisans are not seen as being "book-smart" but many of the Artisans I read about are very intelligent and interested in ideas and higher education.
 

lauranna

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You sound like you could be ISTP. If a subject interests anISTP they will make effort to study it. There is no reason why you can't be an sp and smart/academic. The nature of an ISTP is to be a deep thinker amongst other things. And there is always much more to an ISTP then what you initially see.
 

Kayness

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I second lauranna, if you think you might be an SP, i'd say ISTP suits you best.
 

Orangey

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I think neither Jackie Kennedy nor Barbara Streisand are of the artisan temperament. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that those two + Marilyn Monroe + Elizabeth Taylor + JFK are all ESFJs, and Elvis is ISFJ. I have no idea about Cher...

Michael Jackson may be the only real SP in your list.

As far as SPs and book learning, I'd say that the characterization that they seem anti-school is largely correct, even if they are bookish/obsessional about an academic subject. They can be very intelligent and academically successful, but they still give off the vibe that they view school as a take-it-or-leave-it affair. I guess what I'm saying is that they'll pretty much never come off as Hermione-esque.
 

Jeffster

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I think neither Jackie Kennedy nor Barbara Streisand are of the artisan temperament. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that those two + Marilyn Monroe + Elizabeth Taylor + JFK are all ESFJs, and Elvis is ISFJ. I have no idea about Cher...

Jackie Kennedy I could buy being an SJ, and Marilyn I dunno, could even be an NF, but the rest are definite SPs.

Anyway People Watcher, I think the best thing is to use the words & tools scale.

Meaning is your language more concrete (think, talk more about actual objects, people, actions, sensory perceptions) or abstract (think and talk more about subjects and non-sensory things?)

And then are you more cooperative or utilitarian in nature? In other words, do you believe in following the rules because it's the right thing to do, or working with people to find the most harmonious solutions, or do you believe in what seems like it works best or feels cool to do, regardless of whether it adheres to anyone else's standards?

Concrete Cooperators = SJ
Concrete Utilitarians = SP
Abstract Cooperators = NF
Abstract Utilitarians = NT
 

Eugene Watson VIII

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You don't have to be a thinker to do work or study that would seem to appeal just thinkers. I think you would be ISTx maybe leaning towards ISTJ, i'd check out the ISTJ description.
 

Thalassa

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I'm not sure why you think xSFP women are "weak"...you've clearly never met me...and I do think Cher, Marilyn Monroe, Liz Taylor, and Jackie Kennedy are all Artisans by the Keirsey definition.

For example, Courtney Love is probably an - albeit unhealthy, or at least unhealthy when she was younger - ESFP and she'd probably punch you if you said she was weak, and even later in life when she cleaned up, she proved herself to be quite a business woman, not all threats and physical fighting, and she was strong enough to live through Kurt's suicide and raise her daughter, despite her own emotional/mental illness.

Madonna is probably an ESTP, and she's another very strong SP wimminz.

To me you sound like an ISTP, though. Maybe by "weak" you mean "emotional" and that would be a more T-ish perception.
 

IceBlock

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I am a math major. This fact makes me think that I am a Thinking type (?). Are there any feeling Artisans that would major in math? This may indicate thinking type, but it's absurd to say that no feelers can major in math or other exact subjetcs.

I am very assertive and will not allow people to walk over me. This seems really ExxJ, or particularly ESTP, which is more likely since you think you are an artisan.

I have always done extremely well in high school and college, but many descriptions say that Artisans are not good with classroom learning. However, I have never struggled in the classroom and I love to learn new things and ideas. I love all subjects. They normally are not good with classroom learning because of their sensing preference, which doesn't tolerate theories. The perceiving don't help in the process either. But you can't generalize. I know a bunch of artisans (SPs) that are very smart, and go well in studies.

I am very reclusive. I spend most of my time by myself in my room studying, reading, or listening to music. Even though I may speak up in social situations and express my opinion I am not very outgoing or social in the sense that I hang out with people often. This seems really introvert. And the fact that you may speak up in social situations lowers the possibility of you being an introverted feeler.

I usually get things going (take-charge, if you will) when I am in group projects. Everyone else just sits around and stares at each other, so I find I am the one who has to organize everything and gives us a start and execution plan. This seems like a developed extroverted thinking, but it's hard to tell. (Te users applicable for you: ISTJ or ESTJ. You might consider both, mainly ISTJ.)

Also, does anyone else find a discrepancy between the type descriptions and real life Artisans? I feel a lot of Artisans are not seen as being "book-smart" but many of the Artisans I read about are very intelligent and interested in ideas and higher education. Artisans are really common, and they can vary a lot. It's true that a good part of them are brickheaded, but that does not apply to all of them. Indeed, as I said, a lot of artisans are smart. Not book-smart I'd say, only fact-smart. SPs have a very good sense of what is in the real world, and they enjoy that.

Okay, after reading what you said, I'd say ISTP for you. Don't rely in descriptions, particularly for ISTP descriptions, they are normally bad. ESTP is also a possibility, but I don't think so. Well, the only certainity you gave me is that you are a thinker, and probably an introvert. I can feel sensing from you too.
 
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ChocolateMoose123

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Your group setting description? I do the same thing if there is no one taking charge. Mainly, because I don't like working in groups and I'd rather decide the job I'm doing than have a less favored one assigned to me. Also, the discussion has less of a chance of going in a painful "picking fly sh*t out of pepper" direction. Less chat. More do.

Most of that stuff u mentioned is symptoms. Lots of engineers and surgeons are ISTP. That takes grad school. If no temperament rings true for you, have your close friend answer the questions for you. Maybe they'll see something definitive you don't
 

PeopleWatcher

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If no temperament rings true for you, have your close friend answer the questions for you. Maybe they'll see something definitive you don't


I have no friends who would know me well enough to answer these questions. Neither would any family members be able to answer precisely:dry:

I think you would be ISTx maybe leaning towards ISTJ, i'd check out the ISTJ description.


And then are you more cooperative or utilitarian in nature?

Others have suggested istj for me. But I am not a cooperative type. I am definitely utilitarian. I do things because it works and makes sense. If something doesn't make sense to me (meaning it doesn't work the way I think it should) then I will not want to do it.

I definitely question tradition and why we do things the way we do. I will not accept something just because that is the way it has always been. I use my "own mind" more than SJs tend to.:D They go along with society's rules and trends without questioning the status quo. I am more likely to see the value in something unusual, different, that doesn't fit the mold.

I am creative in the sense that I think outside the box. So if I were any other temperament besides Artisan it would be the Rational.

I used to think I was a Rational. But I started to question that because I am so good with my five senses. I am very aware of what's going on around me and space. Most intuitives seem clueless about space, i.e. What's near them? How much space is between them and the next person?

I get pleasure from engaging my Se (Extraverted Sensing function). I like touch, smells, and looks. I can notice (by taste or sight) when my mom uses a different brand for an ingredient in her dishes. I'll say, "this tastes funny." And she'll say, "I used a different brand." So I am very good with noticing textures and scents and looks (such as facial features, colors). All very concrete, extraverted sensing things.

So have I convinced you all that I am not an SJ! Many SJs get under my skin, actually, because they have a worldview that conforms to the established opinion or what the one with the authority thinks is right. Just because you are the manager or teacher doesn't mean you are right, but many SJs assume the one in authority (and the conventional way) is always right and should be listened to and respected. :mad:

As you can see I can be very passionate in my views and quite blunt. So if I come off offensive, I apologize. :( But I have to be honest in order for you all to get an accurate reading on me. If I censor myself I'll come off with no personality, which is exactly what we are trying to figure out. ;)

Thanks for all the comment so far! Keep 'em coming, please.
 
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S

Society

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[MENTION]PeopleWatcher [/MENTION]- you sounds more like an xxTJ to he honest, even the way you ask these questions scream "extroverted thinking" to me, jumping from one general personality-typing methodology to another without quite going into the breakdown nitty gritty's of any of them.

your need to questioning conformist methodology fits more with the interaction of Ni-Te rather then Si-Te, so if i had to put my wager, i would put it on xNTJ.

i would also say you sound more like a Te dom to me, and it is very common for all types to have a "passsively acknowledging" level of engagement with their tertiary function:

ENTPs often are aware of the social dynamics (tertiary Fe) around them but are not compelled to satisfy the resulting expectations, INFJs are often aware of the logical conclusions but are not compelled to accept them (tertiary Ti), etc', you seem to describe a similar engagement with Se - in which you get pleasure from enjoy it passively but do not engage it actively (no artisan skills).

i would be inclined to type you as a Te>Ni>Se>Fe, otherwise known as ENTJ.
 

Chaotic Harmony

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:hi:

I'm an ISFP... And I must break the norm because I love school.... So much so I work at a college and take all kinds of classes free! That being said... while I don't like the traditional learning style, I can do well in school under that style. I prefer a much more hands on approach or interactive. I hate being lectured to. I can read the book and I can read PowerPoints... I don't need an instructor to stand at the front of the room and do it for me. And I'm actually pretty good at math, it's just not my passion.

There is a lot of biased statements in the MBTI type descriptions. It's been discussed multiple times around here that all the sensing types seem kind of lame compared to the uber special and super smart intuitive types descriptions.

There's a running joke in my family that my mother and I (ISTJ and ISFP) look with our fingers... We touch everything when out shopping. We like to feel what different materials in clothing feel like... We like to squeeze, smell, tap everything in the produce department of the grocery store to test for freshness... We're all about our five senses. And we're both artists. My mom took classes to become a painter, whereas it seems it kind of came naturally to me. She's more of a technical painter (very precise) and I'm more relaxed (not as consistent in details).

I initially got an ISTP vibe from your post. I don't feel like I relate to you from an ISFP standpoint. I've met a few very outspoken ISTPs... One was a history major. :shrug: I guess ISTPs know what they like and don't care if it doesn't fit the "norm" for their type.
 

PeopleWatcher

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i would be inclined to type you as a Te>Ni>Se>Fe, otherwise known as ENTJ.



Mane, it is so interesting you say I remind you of an ENTJ. That is the type I used to think I was... then I started questioning, which lead to my Am I an Artisan? post. :)

But apparently some istps initially see more of themselves in the Rational temperament description than the Artisan one.

Also if I am describing something I use concrete language that appeals to the senses and similes rather than metaphors. I also am more inclined to take things literally rather than figuratively. My concrete language usage plus my love of the senses also convinces me that I am not an intuitive type.

Also, isn't an introvert someone who draws energy from being alone? This is definitely me, so entj seems wrong for the simple fact entjs are extraverts. Some extraverts do spend a lot of time alone but I definitely need my time alone to recharge and recoup. Being around people all day drains me. I love when I get to go off alone. I get off balance if I don't have enough time off by myself.

Oh yeah, I am very impulsive-said so by multiple people. Isn't this an artisan trait?

Any more ideas on the istp vs. entj dilemna?
 
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Randomnity

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You sound kinda like an INTJ to me. Second guess would be ISTP, maybe ISTJ. Do you know if you prefer Te or Ti? You're coming off as far more Te-oriented here.
 

lauranna

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You sound kinda like an INTJ to me. Second guess would be ISTP. Do you know if you prefer Te or Ti? You're coming off as far more Te-oriented here.

I agree with INTJ/INTP/ISTP

I don't see ENTJ - I and the T seem obvious in you.
 

Chaotic Harmony

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Also if I am describing something I use concrete language that appeals to the senses and similes rather than metaphors. I also am more inclined to take things literally rather than figuratively. My concrete language usage plus my love of the senses also convinces me that I am not an intuitive type.

Ah.... Heaven. I wish my husband did this more often (he's an INTJ).

Also, isn't an introvert someone who draws energy from being alone? This is definitely me, so entj seems wrong for the simple fact entjs are extraverts. Some extraverts do spend a lot of time alone but I definitely need my time alone to recharge and recoup. Being around people all day drains me. I love when I get to go off alone. I get off balance if I don't have enough time off by myself.
When I've been out to a social gathering, I do need to go home and sneak off to the bedroom to "recharge." Though, I never feel drained while at a gathering... It's usually afterward when I get home I think "wow, I'm totally exhausted."

Oh yeah, I am very impulsive-said so by multiple people. Isn't this an artisan trait?

That's how I am. Not sure if it is an artisan trait or not...though I know several artisans that are that way.
 

King sns

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one of those istp intj metamorphs though I see hints of istj, which dichotomy wise would be a balance between the two but function wise makes no sense, without the artisan hinting I would have just said ixtj I think, but I would take your opinion into consideration since I obviously don't know you that well.
 

BlackCat

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Definitely feeling ISTP for you.
 

PeopleWatcher

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Ahhh it's all so interesting, guys. Thanks.

My dad is an istj so maybe that is where the istj leanings come in.

What exactly is it about my posts that seems so ixxj? I'll be interested in pondering on that if someone has any explanation. One poster describe the Te aspect some... does anyone have a valid argument for my posts leaning me more towards Te than Ti or vice versa?

It is difficult to type someone you have never met. But I have an inkling that each type has a general "voice". Is my voice ixxj? I do have a couple votes for istp though. :happy2:
 

Randomnity

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What exactly is it about my posts that seems so ixxj?
" I spend most of my time by myself in my room studying, reading, or listening to music" is extremely unlike an artisan. Particularly the studying part, and particularly if there isn't an extremely good reason for it.

I'm not sure why your posts give me a Te feel. Perhaps it's that your sentences are very formal with no contractions. Maybe if english isn't your first language, that's a false reading.
 
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