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  1. #41
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    SP's suck with delayed gratification and especially the SE doms because their hardest function to develop is Ni
    Wow. For someone who recently had doubts as to what their own MBTI type was, you sure as hell are comfortable attempting to belittle the entire Artisan archetype with an inappropriate quip as to how you believe a single cognitive function defines vast amounts of human behaviors.

    FAIL.
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  2. #42
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Wow. For someone who recently had doubts as to what their own MBTI type was, you sure as hell are comfortable attempting to belittle the entire Artisan archetype with an inappropriate quip as to how you believe a single cognitive function defines vast amounts of human behaviors.

    FAIL.
    Dude, I've known so many Se users in my life, and have read the descriptions online. Se users in general suck with delayed gratification, and mostly live in the present moment. Most Se users that I know and especially the ESTP types hate thinking about the future, and I'm not sure how saying this "belittles" the artisan temperament either. Many SP's are very successful, they just aren't good with delayed gratification.

  3. #43
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    Yeah, I've definitely been in 'the grip'. It's like everything flips upside down.

  4. #44
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Dude, I've known so many Se users in my life, and have read the descriptions online. Se users in general suck with delayed gratification, and mostly live in the present moment. Most Se users that I know and especially the ESTP types hate thinking about the future, and I'm not sure how saying this "belittles" the artisan temperament either. Many SP's are very successful, they just aren't good with delayed gratification.
    I don't see delayed gratification as an asset to anything really. My ESTP/ESFP friends just don't work like that. It's not necessary for success, I agree with you. What gets them in trouble (any SP for that matter) is not that they don't delay gratification, it's that they don't know what's important to them. Without that they cannot optimize their opportunities to greater benefit them.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  5. #45

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    I like the period before gratification, the anticipation, the planning and work. What is really frustrating is not being able to see the outcome clearly. I won't spend time on something that will not reap rewards. Maybe that is why SP tend towards short term goals or chunking longer goals.

  6. #46
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Dude, I've known so many Se users in my life...
    A convenient assumption on your part.
    Your statement is not verifiable, and thus a worthless component of any argument - against me or anyone else. Understood?

    STRIKE #1

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One
    ………and have read the descriptions online.
    Another weak resource to base your assertions on....

    STRIKE #2

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One
    Se users in general suck with delayed gratification, and mostly live in the present moment.
    Since you so blindly believe stereotypes, I cannot be anything short of amused at thinking how hopelessly and consistently implement those of your own MBTI type.

    Maybe your recently expressed indecision about your MBTI type is a means of not embracing what you know to be your own shortcomings according to theory you blindly accept as valid and cast upom others as inescapable truths?

    Perhaps you don't have a internal locus of control, and thus falsely assume no one else does either?

    Or, perhaps you are a hypocrite?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One
    Most Se users that I know and especially the ESTP types hate thinking about the future...
    Prove it.
    You cannot.
    So stop discrediting yourself needlessly.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One
    …and I'm not sure how saying this "belittles" the artisan temperament either...
    Saying anyone "sucks" at anything is belittling.
    Is that clear enough for you - or do you need me to direct you to www.dictionary.com?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One
    Many SP's are very successful, they just aren't good with delayed gratification.
    You are not qualified to make remarks about entire groups of people.

    What gives you the authority or credibility to assume you are entitled to judging others?

    NOTHING.

    You are misguided in your beliefs that cursory knowledge of anything empowers you to understand human behavior, let alone cast limiting your beliefs about the capabilities of others, and worst of all poisoning the minds and beliefs of others with your misinformed opinons.

    STRIKE #3 = YOU'RE OUT!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I like the period before gratification, the anticipation, the planning and work. What is really frustrating is not being able to see the outcome clearly. I won't spend time on something that will not reap rewards. Maybe that is why SP tend towards short term goals or chunking longer goals.
    EXCELLENT POST.
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  7. #47
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I like the period before gratification, the anticipation, the planning and work. What is really frustrating is not being able to see the outcome clearly. I won't spend time on something that will not reap rewards. Maybe that is why SP tend towards short term goals or chunking longer goals.
    I like this too.

  8. #48
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @Halla74

    Why are you so offended by my statement? I'm not saying that Se users (SP's) can't be future oriented, I am saying that they usually are not unless they develop Ni. Just look at the description of Se for God's sake from keys2cognition.com.

    Se - Extroverted Sensing
    Extraverted Sensing occurs when we become aware of what is in the physical world in rich detail. We may be drawn to act on what we experience to get an immediate result. We notice relevant facts and occurrences in a sea of data and experiences, learning all the facts we can about the immediate context or area of focus and what goes on in that context. An active seeking of more and more input to get the whole picture may occur until all sources of input have been exhausted or something else captures our attention. Extraverted Sensing is operating when we freely follow exciting physical impulses or instincts as they come up and enjoy the thrill of action in the present moment. A oneness with the physical world and a total absorption may exist as we move, touch, and sense what is around us. The process involves instantly reading cues to see how far we can go in a situation and still get the impact we want or respond to the situation with presence.
    Next let us look at Kiersey's SP temperament (http://personalitycafe.com/sps-tempe...-artisans.html).....

    Keirsey’s SP “Artisans”
    David Keirsey explains the temperaments at great length, but his descriptions can get long-winded and confusing. His SP “Artisan” temperament can be summarized thus:

    Communication: Concrete
    You talk about people, things, and the general here and now.
    Implementation: Utilitarian
    You favor practicality and what works over the human aspect and social approval.
    Character: Artisan
    You are concerned with the real world and what pays off, but not so much with why and how.

    Language: Harmonic
    You speak lightly and pleasantly.
    Referential: Indicative
    You refer to things in a very direct, basic, to-the-point manner.
    Syntactical: Descriptive
    You speak in concretely illustrative terms.
    Rhetorical: Heterodox
    You explain your views from a fresh, new perspective.

    Intellect: Tactical
    Your strength lies in optimizing your immediate environment; improvising.
    Directive Role: Operator (xSTP)
    Your goals tend to be expedient and project-oriented; you are more authoritative.
    Expressive Role: Promoter (ESTP)
    You are the ultimate persuader; advertising, politics – you name it.
    Reserved Role: Crafter (ISTP)
    You are equipment- and action-oriented, quietly mastering technique-related skills.
    Informative Role: Entertainer (xSFP)
    Your goals tend to be more creative and artistic; you are extremely spontaneous.
    Expressive Role: Performer (ESFP)
    You are more people-oriented in your improvisation; you shine when putting on a show.
    Reserved Role: Composer (ISFP)
    You are more of the artistic type, with a great eye for aesthetics and beauty.

    Interest
    Education: Artcraft
    You prefer to learn about hands-on subjects: drawing, woodshop, etc.
    Preoccupation: Technique
    You focus on perfecting your method at certain things: playing an instrument, a sport, etc.
    Vocation: Equipment
    You are happiest when working with machines, instruments, and anything you can operate.

    Orientation
    Present: Hedonism
    When thinking about the moment, you feel that what is pleasurable is good.

    Future: Optimism
    You aren’t concerned with anything too far ahead and face each new moment with confidence.

    Past: Cynicism
    You tend not to find patterns in the past; you view life as risky and entirely a matter of chance.
    Place: Here
    You like to be at the center of things, in the midst of the action.
    Time: Now
    You always seize the day and feel there is no time like the present.

    Self-Image
    Self-Esteem: Artistic
    You like yourself most when you see yourself as creative in your improvisation; graceful, fluid.
    Self-Respect: Audacious
    You respect yourself most when you and others see you as bold, daring, and adventurous.
    Self-Confidence: Adaptable
    You feel the most confident when you are able to adapt in changing circumstances.

    Value
    Being: Excited
    You love adventure and hate boredom.
    Trusting: Impulse
    You go with your first instinct; impulsiveness makes you feel alive.
    Yearning: Impact
    You ultimately want to have great social impact; you want to feel potent, statement-making.
    Seeking: Stimulation
    You are always looking for ways to arouse your senses; variety is the spice of your life.
    Prizing: Generosity
    You derive great pleasure from giving to others.
    Aspiring: Virtuoso
    You dream of becoming an ace in your field, to achieve technical mastery.

    Social Role
    Mating: Playmate
    In relationships, you seek to lighten up your partner and want to give pleasure and excitement.
    Parenting: Liberator
    As a parent, you want your kids to have freedom above all else.
    Leading: Negotiator
    In leadership positions, you are the ultimate negotiator and troubleshooter.

    From Please Understand Me II, by David Keirsey.
    Finally sir, if you are not yet convinced, allow us to look at personality page at the estp weaknesses description (source: http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ESTP_rel.html)....

    ESTP Weaknesses

    Not naturally in tune with what others are feeling
    Not naturally good at expressing feelings and emotions
    May inadvertantly hurt others with insensitive language
    May be very good with money, but highly risky with it as well
    Living in the present, they're not usually good long-range planners
    May fall into the habit of ignoring conflict, rather than solving it
    Don't naturally make lifelong commitments - they take things one day at a time
    Prone to get bored easily
    More likely than other type to leave relationships quickly when they get bored
    Likely to enjoy lavishing their loved ones with big gifts (both a strength and a weakness)
    Are you convinced yet or do you need more convincing?

  9. #49
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Why are you so offended by my statement?
    You haven't lived long enough to offend me, let's get that clear up front.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I'm not saying that Se users (SP's) can't be future oriented,
    Yes you did.
    Stop being mouthy, and then back peddaling.
    Please.
    Take accountability for your own words, or remain silent.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I am saying that they usually are not unless they develop Ni.
    "Ni" isn't a cure for anything, including hemmhorroids.
    You are trying to talk shit, quote unsubstantiated theory of which you have limited understanding at best, and then come forth proclaiming expertise.
    Puke.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Just look at the description of Se for God's sake from
    Quote Originally Posted by Random URL
    blah blah....
    .

    Fuck that description.
    If you base your understanding of any human being on it, let alone an entire classification of them, you are more misinformed than I initially imagined, which is sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Next let us look at Kiersey's SP temperament (http://personalitycafe.com/sps-tempe...-artisans.html).....
    How about you pay attention to real life, and real people, and stop trying to quote the works of others in order to attempt substantiating your own mastery of a subject beyond any human being's comprehension? How about that? Can you dig it? Think you are capable of it?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Finally sir,
    You are ill equipped to try and be a wise ass with me, neophyte.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    if you are not yet convinced, allow us to look at personality page at the estp weaknesses description (source: http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ESTP_rel.html)....
    That page doesn't prove a goddamn thing, nor do your ramblings here.
    In your case, less is more.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Are you convinced yet or do you need more convincing?
    I'm convinced you are out of your league.
    Go pack a lunch and bring some friends if you wish to try again.
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  10. #50
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    No, no, no, he's not ENFP. He handles critisism too well; like water off a duck's back with no signs of distress. And no Te.

    He probably just doesn't fully appreciate the idiosyncrasies of an Fe-dom (yet).
    ENFPs can handle criticism well too.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    Sunburst!
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