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  1. #61
    Stansmith
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    Strangely enough, I often have these vivid memories that pop up out of nowhere and make me feel incredibly bad/angry, even when I'm relatively stable emotionally. Seems kind of Si-ish. Instead of seeing it as an indication of the future, I just dwell on it, as if that memory is all that matters.

    I tend to live in the past, the present (within my mind), or some sort of alternate universe that you can maybe call the near-future. I can sort of fantasize with my eyes wide open; I'll see the external world in front of me, but my mind is just some place else.

  2. #62
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    I'll come back and respond to this on the weekend. @Stansmith

    I've had a super busy couple of weeks and thought I'd just check in to see if I had any messages. I'll be back though.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  3. #63
    Senior Member Fun in the Sun's Avatar
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    ISFP issues, where do I begin? I suppose I've been really developing my Ni, especially since college, which opened up a big freaking can of worms in my mind. I feels like I've been drifting, mentally, and haven't settled anywhere yet. My worldview was turned upside down. My love of art and living in the moment replaced by science, efficiency, and productivity, although I've been making some ground back in the opposite direction once again; I feel more like my old self. Also, studying evolution in college really put a damper on having a firm in anything, which messed with me for years, but over the years my love of nature has given me a deep spirituality that I have begun to nourish once again. Also, developing my Ni, as well as my Te, has pushed me more into writing instead of just doing art, which has given me another avenue to express myself, so that's a plus.
    Likes Gypsy-Flux liked this post

  4. #64
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ISFP4 View Post
    Sensitivity to criticism: I respond with distrust because i suspect a hidden social agenda, suspect the criticism is just lies to feed an ego. It upsets me because I feel the other person is not genuine and chances of a real connection decrease.
    would you say it is pretty much over then between the two of you where the connection decreases, or would you say there is a way to get it back on track?

  5. #65
    Member hornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I wonder what the difference is between an Ni/Fi loop and an Fi/Ni loop. They seem like they would be very similar.
    Well since the INTJ have Te as the main source of external info a Ni/Fi loop will be more system oriented.
    Paranoia or at least misconceptions about the systems surrounding the person.
    An ISFP has Se as the main source so the misconceptions will be much closer to home so to speak.
    Centered on the actions and intentions of the people around them.
    In the Fi/Ni loop Ni is the malfunctionong part, in the Ni/Fi loop Fi is the malfucntioning part.
    Or maybe immature is a better word for it than malfunction.
    The aux can alleviate it, but what really needs to happen is the balance of the inf.
    But gee you wrote this ages ago, I'm sure you will have figured this out by now.
    I won't read the whole thread to find out though.

    *Skipping to end, oh a misunderstanding of Si*

    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    Strangely enough, I often have these vivid memories that pop up out of nowhere and make me feel incredibly bad/angry, even when I'm relatively stable emotionally. Seems kind of Si-ish. Instead of seeing it as an indication of the future, I just dwell on it, as if that memory is all that matters.

    I tend to live in the past, the present (within my mind), or some sort of alternate universe that you can maybe call the near-future. I can sort of fantasize with my eyes wide open; I'll see the external world in front of me, but my mind is just some place else.
    No it isn't Si it is a memory, memory isn't Si.
    Si is percieving the world to be multiple layered memories stacked on top of each other.
    That rose isn't a rose it is the icon of every rose you have percieved.
    Se sees the object, Si sees a subjective palette of everything that is expected to be there.
    You remember a snapshot of what you percieved the objects to be.
    Having Si is being surprised when you come back later and the objects have changed.
    And then denying the influence of the objects to the point of absurdity.
    Before you finally implement the changes into your palette and start over, expecting this new change to be permanent.
    Don't mistake Si for memory that is an annoying little MBTI meme I keep running into.
    Si is more like believing that every thing one sense is it's own little spirit. The spirit of christmas ring a bell?
    Don't anyone read Jung?
    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...ological_Types

  6. #66
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornet View Post
    Well since the INTJ have Te as the main source of external info a Ni/Fi loop will be more system oriented.
    Paranoia or at least misconceptions about the systems surrounding the person.
    An ISFP has Se as the main source so the misconceptions will be much closer to home so to speak.
    Centered on the actions and intentions of the people around them.

    In the Fi/Ni loop Ni is the malfunctionong part, in the Ni/Fi loop Fi is the malfucntioning part.
    Or maybe immature is a better word for it than malfunction.
    The aux can alleviate it, but what really needs to happen is the balance of the inf.
    But gee you wrote this ages ago, I'm sure you will have figured this out by now.
    I won't read the whole thread to find out though.
    That is very interesting.

    The combination of an internal judging + internal perception function working in isolation together would necessarily draw the person away from reality. The use of the word "loop" would imply that the two cycle back and forth without allowing the outside world perspective to be considered.

    An INTJ will function well by primarily relying on Ni+Te with the Te keeping Ni in balance and brokering the path to less conscious or mature functions like Fi. Te is an important counterbalance because it forces the INTJ to align their imaginative Ni ideas and perceptions with how those perceptions apply to reality. When Te falls aside, the Ni dom loses their focus on concrete reality - the practicality of their insights - and ties them with an internal value based judging perspective, which becomes unproductive navel gazing and an inability to make effective decisions.

    An ISFP will function well by primarily relying on Fi+Se with the Se keeping Fi in balance and brokering the path to less conscious or mature functions like Ni. Se is an important counterbalance because it forces the Fi dom to gain real world perceptions in order to inform their judgments. When Se falls aside, the person loses track of reality and instead allows their imagination to run away with them, falsely interpreting different pieces of information and engaging in an erroneous cycle of self reinforcing and ineffective conclusions.

    There is a difference between the two because the one is a dominant perceiver (and can't come to a conclusion) and the other is a dominant judger (and reaches bad conclusions).

    I think?

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  7. #67
    Member hornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    That is very interesting.

    The combination of an internal judging + internal perception functions working in isolation together would necessarily draw the person away from reality. The use of the word "loop" would imply that the two cycle back and forth without allowing the outside world perspective to be considered.

    An INTJ will function well by primarily relying on Ni+Te with the Te keeping Ni in balance and brokering the path to less conscious or mature functions like Fi. Te is an important counterbalance because it forces the INTJ to align their imaginative Ni ideas and perceptions with how those perceptions apply to reality. When Te falls aside, the Ni dom loses their focus on concrete reality - the practicality of their insights - and ties them with an internal value based judging perspective, which becomes unproductive navel gazing and an inability to make effective decisions.

    An ISFP will function well by primarily relying on Fi+Se with the Se keeping Fi in balance and brokering the path to less conscious or mature functions like Ni. Se is an important counterbalance because it forces the Fi dom to gain real world perceptions in order to inform their judgments. When Se falls aside, the person loses track of reality and instead allows their imagination to run away with them, falsely interpreting different pieces of information and drawing erroneous cycle of self reinforcing and ineffective conclusions.

    There is a difference between the two because the one is a dominant perceiver (and can't come to a conclusion) and the other is a dominant judger (and reaches wrong conclusions).

    I think?
    That sounds accurate.
    Let me reread it...
    Yup seems good still!

    Thing is that as an introvert even though there is no perception vs judgning conflict between Je and Pi or Ji and Pe.
    There is still the object vs subject tension.
    The aux will always be stronger and more mature than the tert,
    but the tert will always be more alluring under stress.
    It is so much more easy to drop the aux and process it all on the same level.

  8. #68
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornet View Post
    That sounds accurate.
    Let me reread it...
    Yup seems good still!

    Thing is that as an introvert even though there is no perception vs judgning conflict between Je and Pi or Ji and Pe.
    There is still the object vs subject tension.
    The aux will always be stronger and more mature than the tert,
    but the tert will always be more alluring under stress.
    It is so much more easy to drop the aux and process it all on the same level.
    It's important because I can confirm that INTJs pretty much work that way but ISFPs - my comments are conjecture.

    So that's accurate?

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  9. #69
    Member hornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    It's important because I can confirm that INTJs pretty much work that way but ISFPs - my comments are conjecture.

    So that's accurate?
    I've read it three times now.
    You are correct!
    When we lose touch of Se we do let our imagination run away with us, usually fueled by some emotion like anger or sadness or even happyness.
    The internal snowball starts to roll and it can be quite a shock sometimes to reconnect with the real world to find it all a grand illusion.
    It can be anything, like seeing some facial expression on a person, and building a whole dramatic story about what it means.
    If you don't support the initial impression with a relevant probable context (Te), you will dig yourself into an illusion 99% of the time.
    As an ISFP that is.

  10. #70
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Based on what I've read, some common ISFP issues include:

    Sensitivity to criticism - May be very sensitive to criticism and see criticism where none was intended. May even take the fact that another person has a different point of view as criticism.

    In their own world - Because of their dominant Fi, ISFPs may value their feelings and opinions far more than others. The are prone to taking in information that only supports their personal opinions. They can ignore the feelings, perspectives and point of view of others. They may also be unaware of how their behavior affects others. Taken to an extreme, this combination of behaviors can lead others to perceive them as unrealistic, selfish, or eccentric.

    Do you agree with these? Other thoughts?
    Very similar to what an ESFJ would be like. So my thoughts are, is it internally only compared the ESFJ who is externally (expressive), sensitive towards criticism?

    edit: I'm mentioning ESFJ because of the shadow functions. reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISFP

    Shadow functions

    Later personality researchers (notably Linda V. Berens)[16] added four additional functions to the descending hierarchy, the so-called "shadow" functions to which the individual is not naturally inclined but which can emerge when the person is under stress. For ISFP, these shadow functions are (in order):

    • Extraverted Feeling (Fe): Fe seeks social connections and creates harmonious interactions through polite, considerate, and appropriate behavior. Fe responds to the explicit (and implicit) wants of others, and may even create an internal conflict between the subject’s own needs and the desire to meet the needs of others.[17]
    • Introverted Sensing (Si): Si collects data in the present moment and compares it with past experiences, a process that sometimes evokes the feelings associated with memory, as if the subject were reliving it. Seeking to protect what is familiar, Si draws upon history to form goals and expectations about what will happen in the future.[18]
    • Extraverted Intuition (Ne): Ne finds and interprets hidden meanings, using “what if” questions to explore alternatives, allowing multiple possibilities to coexist. This imaginative play weaves together insights and experiences from various sources to form a new whole, which can then become a catalyst to action.[19]
    • Introverted Thinking (Ti): Ti seeks precision, such as the exact word to express an idea. It notices the minute distinctions that define the essence of things, then analyzes and classifies them. Ti examines all sides of an issue, looking to solve problems while minimizing effort and risk. It uses models to root out logical inconsistency.[20]

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