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  1. #1
    Senior Member Pinker85's Avatar
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    Default How do you interact with the different stages of your life?

    When I think of myself as a child, teen, and now in my 20s it's murky and through memories of myself throughout these time periods. I was taking care of my grandma who is in her 90s and I was thinking about her life and the different stages she's lived through. When she was diagnosed with dementia it seemed as though she accepted the diagnosis as the natural progression of life but she's never really been very expressive so it's possible she felt something different inside.

    How do you perceive your mortality? Is it something you just don't think about? But as you get older isn't it inescapable to think of death and aging? What causes you to think about death and aging?

    It's really challenging for me to understand how an SP might think about these things. I'd imagine an SP just wouldn't really think about their past or even their future much. It'd be like you just are what you are right now. But does that also mean you take for granted that what you were isn't what you are now? Or do you think that you've always pretty much been the same person you are right now?

    That isn't really possible because it seems unavoidable that you'd have new experiences which change your understanding of yourself and life which changes your perspective. Or is it that you are this certain identity or way of thinking and that is your perspective which forms your reality so that one is like a ball fit into a groove always on this same track regardless of the twists or turns? As an NF I think of my perspective as flawed but all I'll ever have. I try to understand as many perspectives as possible and gain new information/insights to help me expand my understanding (and help me better empathize with others) so I'm not who I was yesterday. I'm definitely not the person I was a year ago. And I think I'll always be changing because I really crave paradigm shifts and new ways of perceiving life. How do you respond when you felt certain you understood a situation only to find out later that you didn't? Has this never happened to you? Do you tend to put a lot of trust in what your gut tells you about situations? Do you think how you responded as an eight year old is more or less how you respond now?

    Do you tend to think that people don't change? Is someone who is convicted of a violent crime always someone capable of committing the same ruthless act of violence and the purpose of prison is to create a punishment that forces them to control their violent tendencies? Or can a person's perspective and how they relate to life on a deeper level be changed to where they no longer have a gut response of violence to the same situation they may have before?

    I guess these are a lot of questions to answer. :P I'm just very curious as an NF how SPs perceive life.

  2. #2
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    How do you perceive your mortality? Is it something you just don't think about? But as you get older isn't it inescapable to think of death and aging? What causes you to think about death and aging?
    I'm 21 years old and I don't think at all about the possibility of my dying. The only time I really thought about this way when my dad (who I was very, very close to, closest to him over anyone else in my family) died. And all I really did was think "okay I need to get this shit done before I'm 25" which was simple stuff, like have a skill or job that brought in better money than minimum wage, and be either getting through school or be done with school. I didn't want to end up being one of those people who worked in a grocery store the rest of their life.

    All of my grandparents save one of my grandmothers is dead, my dad's friends who I've also gotten close to have been dying due to crazy shit (my dad was an INTP who was a professional drummer for 50 years) and just old age. I've had friends die. I've only really thought about who they were as a person and how they touched the world and what their existence really meant. It has never made me think about my own mortality. My dad's passing made me think about that slightly just because he was such a huge part of my life, and even then I spent more time appreciating the things that he did rather than the idea of dying.

    I feel like if I just thought about when I'm going to die then it kind of would defeat the purpose of living. Duh we are all going to die. That's just about as far and as interesting as that train of thought will go for me. When I die, well, that's just going to be it. I'm gonna be dead. Life is about the present for me generally, even though I consider myself pretty smart and I enjoy a lot of different deeper subjects like spirituality, I still live in the present for the most part.

    I think that when my body and mind starts becoming incapable will I think about aging, and even then I will probably just automatically adjust to that and continue trying to live my life the best that I can and not think about it. That's what I do. I live and learn, get a good experience to mold how I interact and what I find to be of value and then forget about the negative and all that shit. I never really reference the past (if you'll notice Si is very, very last, even before Te in my preferred functions order). People who reference the past are really grating and annoying to me, and people who talk about the future all the time get on my nerves and I can stand to talk about the future for about 20 seconds unless it's relevant to me and/or the other person. Even then it's generally about something specific and tangible. I guess I feel like I don't have time to think of that stuff. I'm only really up for talking about the future specifically if it can be attained with the resources available right now, so I guess it's apart of the present to me even though it's going to happen at a later date.

    As an added note, I really appreciate it when people tell me ways the present could change or be interpreted, I like knowing that I'm on the right track.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    It's really challenging for me to understand how an SP might think about these things. I'd imagine an SP just wouldn't really think about their past or even their future much. It'd be like you just are what you are right now. But does that also mean you take for granted that what you were isn't what you are now? Or do you think that you've always pretty much been the same person you are right now?
    I generally am who I am now. It feels perfectly natural to me but probably looks confusing to others. My experiences change who I am at the core, they change how I react to and judge situations (Fi); and what I find is of value from situation to situation. My experiences mold how I am empathetic and how well I can read people, I almost feel psychic sometimes because I am quite capable of putting myself in another's shoes and seeing how they are in the present; almost becoming that person in my mind when I reference them.

    Fi and Se are really, really confusing to have together. Se being the most objective of all functions and Fi being the most subjective of all of the functions. I absolutely do not take for granted who I was, I try to learn and define what I really want and what really matters.

    Apart of me wants to say I've always been the same person, but if I think about it at all I've changed a lot based on my experiences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    That isn't really possible because it seems unavoidable that you'd have new experiences which change your understanding of yourself and life which changes your perspective. Or is it that you are this certain identity or way of thinking and that is your perspective which forms your reality so that one is like a ball fit into a groove always on this same track regardless of the twists or turns?
    Bolded seems more related to ESPs, and non bolded seems to be more ISP. ISPs primarily live their life shaping their perspectives through their experiences which feed either Ti or Fi. ESPs do it a bit of the opposite, their experiences are shaped by their perspectives. They tend to attach to a Ti or Fi principal and just go for it, their best way of feeding Ji is to make it happen rather than with ISPs to let it happen on it's own. Remember that the auxillary's information feeds the primary, yet the primary function causes auxillary kinds of information to be taken in in the first place. Oftentimes it's rough keeping a level or even logical mindset as a young SP because Se is so raring for experiences and knowledge in some way. For example (trying to do jungian types rather than socionics, bear with me here if something seems off) I'd say an ESFP just does whatever seems relevant at the time, whatever would feel good and just naturally follow their impulses. Then after that experience it would feed Fi, and they would have some identity and some idea of what they want for their identity/what they think that they are and go for things that seem really relevant in that way. I personally, as an ISFP, ask myself "would doing this maintain my identity and coincide with my values?" and then go for things. It would be really weird if my identity and values happened as a result of shit happening to me without a filter first, which seems to be how it happens with ESFPs. I always filter things first, and then try to expand upon that idea of the value or of my identity by experiencing new things.

    All I'm trying to say here is that all, ALL SPs are hugely impacted by their experiences, just how they deal with them and such information is different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    I try to understand as many perspectives as possible and gain new information/insights to help me expand my understanding (and help me better empathize with others) so I'm not who I was yesterday.
    I try to do this, I try to think about stuff, but it never works and honestly scatters who I am. I can't define who I am based on ideas. If I thought of some alternate perspective or how it could help me gain information, then I'd try to associate with people like that or put myself in an environment like that to really integrate it. I think that empathizing with others based purely on ideas is a bit strange, and when I try to do this I feel even more isolated from others than I feel generally because I just will not understand unless I have experienced similarly. And similar in these contexts shouldn't be taken literally... experiences can seem similar and not in a literal way, especially for ISPs. Remember that a key part of our thinking is tertiary Ni; it may seem pretty hidden but most ISPs have very strong use of Ni, they just apply it to their own personal lives or they just use it and don't even know or understand how they come to conclusions that they do. That's how we filter out new experiences in a way, Ni sees an alternate perspective (instinctive understanding of different situations based on somewhat similar ones we've been through) that could add to our understanding.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    I'm definitely not the person I was a year ago.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    How do you respond when you felt certain you understood a situation only to find out later that you didn't? Has this never happened to you? Do you tend to put a lot of trust in what your gut tells you about situations? Do you think how you responded as an eight year old is more or less how you respond now?
    Mind gets blown. Ni connects the dots about why I misunderstood and I integrate that into my thinking. I put more trust in my gut than in anything else; except maybe a few certain people, and even then I have to see for myself. I knew less than I do now as an 8 year old, so for sure no to that question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    Do you tend to think that people don't change? Is someone who is convicted of a violent crime always someone capable of committing the same ruthless act of violence and the purpose of prison is to create a punishment that forces them to control their violent tendencies? Or can a person's perspective and how they relate to life on a deeper level be changed to where they no longer have a gut response of violence to the same situation they may have before?
    I tend to think that people won't change unless I see a reason to think that they will or have.

    I think that if someone is capable of doing something once, they are capable of doing it twice. This has proven true with violence, cheating in relationships, pretty much everything. People aren't self aware enough and rationalize constantly to try to think that people can change, but they seem to really just stay the same in a lot of base ways. I have been with two people who have cheated in relationships, and they both essentially cheated on me. People who I've given chances to to possibly change NEVER do. It's just the realistic thing to do. Unless they genuinely have changed and prove it to me time and time again, I don't think that they will and I think that it's a bit strange to assume that they will based off of... well... nothing it would seem.

    It's called a gut response for a reason. And for me personally, the more experiences I get, the more gut responses I get so that adds an interesting layer to my life. People's behaviors may manifest in different ways, but the base thought will still be there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    I guess these are a lot of questions to answer. :P I'm just very curious as an NF how SPs perceive life.
    Ask away, I will definitely answer anything you have to ask. I find NFs just as strange, and I live with an ENFJ!
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  3. #3
    Senior Member Pinker85's Avatar
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    Blackcat,

    Thanks for such a thorough and informative response. I'm mulling over what you've said. It's difficult not to read things you aren't actually saying because I'm processing what you are telling me through the eyes of an NF. I apologize if I'm not really understanding what you've put effort into expressing. If I seem not to be understanding something please help explain where I'm misunderstanding you. I'd be very appreciative.

    I'm really sorry to hear about your father. I lost mine when I was a teenager. It's difficult. We had a pretty strained relationship though. I can't imagine how painful it must be when the relationship is so close. *HUG* I think your ability though to think of primarily the positive about his life really beautiful. For me I often think of people I've lost and it's just mostly bitter when I think of the sweet moments because I miss them so much it hurts. I don't think missing someone is an expression of the depth of how much you cared either. I know death is just a part of life yet I also feel anger they are gone but mostly a lot of very knock you on your ass sadness which is why it's difficult for me to think about people/pets that have died. It'd be beautiful to just remember the good times. I'd probably be more willing to think about them more often if I didn't have this concern I'm going to turn into a sobbing mess. Do you find you miss the person? Do you think about the possible ways their life could have been had they not died? Or how if things had worked out differently they wouldn't have died?

    Your ability to really become another person is pretty remarkable. Are you still aware of your own identity or is it like you become the other person? I'd be curious for you to explain the sensations involved. Have you ever found that what you thought was actually a true "near psychic" experience turned out to be false?

    As far as the future goes . . . do you enjoy science fiction novels/movies? (a bit unrelated but curious)

    Will you elaborate on how Se and Fi interact? Would it be possible for you to give an example?

    I can relate to being hungry for experiences but in a way I feel as though compared to some of the SPs I've known I seem much more driven for new experiences. But this may be related to the comment you made about how experiences can be similar yet not literally (which I'd also appreciate if you'd further explain as I'm having difficulty understanding what you mean by this) which means that maybe they need less overtly varied experiences? I'm trying to understand how this shows up in SPs. It's weird but I tend to think of most SPs I've known as sticking with a few things. Like they find their niche and they just really stick with it (ex: skaters that really only ever want to skate or do skate culture related things). But maybe it's like they will taste only up until the point they establish whether they enjoy a particular activity and after that their curiosity has been satiated and in their mind anything that seems similar has also been experienced via this one experience therefore they need not pursue things related to that experience? So if you've tried one type of fish and didn't like it you just figure all fish are about the same so you don't like fish? Maybe this would explain the reluctance to try new things I've encountered in a few SPs.

    How would a person know they don't want to cheat or be violent? Or rather, how do you know you don't want to cheat or be violent? Is it by projecting yourself into the future or some theoretical situation and seeing that this would be unpleasant an experience for you? Or is it like you just feel that you don't want these things? Have you always known you didn't want to cheat or be violent?

    Thanks for taking the time to answer.

  4. #4
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    It's really challenging for me to understand how an SP might think about these things. I'd imagine an SP just wouldn't really think about their past or even their future much. It'd be like you just are what you are right now.
    lolwut? I think about that stuff all the time. Not past really at all, unless it's relevant or I'm revisiting memories, but future constantly. I think about death and dying probably every day. It's an interesting idea even in the abstract, and it's also highly relevant to my life. Everyone dies and everyone who lives long enough knows people who will die.

    But does that also mean you take for granted that what you were isn't what you are now? Or do you think that you've always pretty much been the same person you are right now?
    I've changed dramatically in the last 5 years and expect to change a little less dramatically over the next 5, but I'd be surprised if I didn't change any more over my lifetime. It'd be pretty depressing to never learn or grow as a person. Some things have stayed the same, of course. But many many things have changed.
    That isn't really possible because it seems unavoidable that you'd have new experiences which change your understanding of yourself and life which changes your I'm definitely not the person I was a year ago. And I think I'll always be changing because I really crave paradigm shifts and new ways of perceiving life. How do you respond when you felt certain you understood a situation only to find out later that you didn't?
    Try to learn from it and not assume so much next time.

    Do you tend to put a lot of trust in what your gut tells you about situations?
    Yes.
    Do you think how you responded as an eight year old is more or less how you respond now?
    Absolutely not. Not even close.

    Do you tend to think that people don't change?
    No, but I think people can't be changed by others.
    Is someone who is convicted of a violent crime always someone capable of committing the same ruthless act of violence and the purpose of prison is to create a punishment that forces them to control their violent tendencies? Or can a person's perspective and how they relate to life on a deeper level be changed to where they no longer have a gut response of violence to the same situation they may have before?
    .
    IMO people can change, but they can't be forced to change via prison and since mindreading doesn't exist and prisoners are often extremely good liars with excellent motivation for lying, we don't have any way to know if they are changed. Therefore prison is more for keeping them away from harming society than it is a rehabilitation tool (which the current system fails miserably at anyway).

    Did that help? SPs are really not so dramatically different from other humans...
    -end of thread-

  5. #5
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    Thanks for such a thorough and informative response. I'm mulling over what you've said. It's difficult not to read things you aren't actually saying because I'm processing what you are telling me through the eyes of an NF. I apologize if I'm not really understanding what you've put effort into expressing. If I seem not to be understanding something please help explain where I'm misunderstanding you. I'd be very appreciative.
    Sure thing! thank you for reading as well. I would also like to say that I'm probably different from a lot of SPs... I'm a pretty spiritual person, and I feel that I have a higher IQ than most (I want to renew my IQ test results for adulthood rather than the child one I took where I scored 128, and later on in high school I took one and scored 141, I feel much more mentally quick than a lot of people and I feel a lot of isolation because of that). Also I spent a long time being stressed in my life, and I think that I was in an FiNi loop for a while in my life; and some of those Ni traits carried over from when I was a teen to where I am now. (I'm pretty sure there are still a few older users who think I'm INFP lol) I think that because of my life I've been focused pretty inwardly, I've always felt isolated from other people and I've always tried to understand why. I don't think many SPs think about WHY it is that they do things aside from obvious reasons... but that's just how my mind is wired from a lot of my life. I've always felt like I needed to understand why I was different and then one thing lead to another...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    I'm really sorry to hear about your father. I lost mine when I was a teenager. It's difficult. We had a pretty strained relationship though. I can't imagine how painful it must be when the relationship is so close. *HUG* I think your ability though to think of primarily the positive about his life really beautiful. For me I often think of people I've lost and it's just mostly bitter when I think of the sweet moments because I miss them so much it hurts. I don't think missing someone is an expression of the depth of how much you cared either. I know death is just a part of life yet I also feel anger they are gone but mostly a lot of very knock you on your ass sadness which is why it's difficult for me to think about people/pets that have died. It'd be beautiful to just remember the good times. I'd probably be more willing to think about them more often if I didn't have this concern I'm going to turn into a sobbing mess.
    I was this way for a bit of time... about 9 months. Doing other things, like totally and completely changing my lifestyle and setting was one way of doing that. 5 of those months I spent in isolation, didn't speak to my family with the exception of when I felt like creeping out once or twice a month, and I pretty much had to talk to work so yeah. The other 4 were spent with the new life and I got over it basically when I had emotional strainers outside of my dad. This again ties in with the present thinking... I honestly distanced myself from family and anyone who would really talk about my dad because they were just living in the past for me. They only really saw me as a part of him and not as my own person... the only conversation that would ever happen was around him, so I said screw it and haven't really bothered talking to any of them since except pretty recently (as in, last month, and he died Sept. 11th 2010).

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    Do you find you miss the person? Do you think about the possible ways their life could have been had they not died? Or how if things had worked out differently they wouldn't have died?
    The only person that I consciously miss is my dad (and even then it's not the feeling, I just think about how my life would have been different with him here, it would have been very different). I also miss my old cat, lol. I do think about how my life would have been different without them, and that leads to how life in general would be if the thought train I'm on needs to go that deep.

    Other than that I don't think about the other people really at all, to be honest with you, even the relatives. As terrible as I'm sure that sounds that I think about my cat more often than my grandma... >.> But that's because a lot of my relatives who have passed away passed when I was really young. My grandpa on my dad's side passed when I could barely remember anything at 6, and my grandma on my dad's side passed when I was about 13. My grandpa on my mom's side passed when I was 17. I don't really... feel that much I guess because I never really knew them for who they were. And I really wouldn't have been able to unless they had lived until I was this old, and I spent a lot of time with them. Versus with the cat... well I had had him since I was 6 years old up until I was 18 (when he got hit by a car, he had at least 5 more years in him, he was too strong for that). He slept with me most nights unless he felt like prowling or being independent, and he was with me a lot of the time when I was at home. He felt like more of a family member than a lot of other family members I've had. I feel like a lot of family members I've had have tried to change me rather than just try to accept me, so why should I try to accept them? A lot of people seem to think that imposing their wills on others and trying to change who they fundamentally are is "helping". A lot of family talk is smalltalk anyway, nothing really of substance that would let me know who they really are. Just because I'm born into something doesn't mean I'm obligated for life...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    Your ability to really become another person is pretty remarkable. Are you still aware of your own identity or is it like you become the other person? I'd be curious for you to explain the sensations involved. Have you ever found that what you thought was actually a true "near psychic" experience turned out to be false?
    I wouldn't say it's really BECOMING the person, it just feels like I do in my mind for a short time, like there is a burst of insight about them when I get enough information about their situation. I feel like once I get enough information about a person I just "know" about a lot of things.

    As far as I know nothing has really been false that I've experienced, and the times when the person has supposedly changed to lead me to think otherwise have also just turned out to be crap; as they tend to go back to their old patterns.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    As far as the future goes . . . do you enjoy science fiction novels/movies? (a bit unrelated but curious)
    Non fiction is booooring, I enjoy science fiction for the most part but prefer more stuff like fantasy with magic and all that rather than the science fiction stuff. I am however a bit obsessed with Star Trek TNG. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    Will you elaborate on how Se and Fi interact? Would it be possible for you to give an example?
    Well it kind of ties in with what I've said above about getting a certain amount of information about a person and what they do and then things just "clicking" about them and who they are; and I'm usually right. It's not anything specific or tangible for me, it just seems like a sense of who the person is and knowing what they will do in situations.

    When it comes to just me the things that I experience fuel what I think matters and what is of value in my life, it happens in a similar way in that some things happen to me and then it just "clicks". After a certain point it's like "oooh so that's what matters!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    But maybe it's like they will taste only up until the point they establish whether they enjoy a particular activity and after that their curiosity has been satiated and in their mind anything that seems similar has also been experienced via this one experience therefore they need not pursue things related to that experience? So if you've tried one type of fish and didn't like it you just figure all fish are about the same so you don't like fish? Maybe this would explain the reluctance to try new things I've encountered in a few SPs.
    What you said here IS actually what I meant by experiences being related but not in a literal way, it's finding similarities like what you said here but it doesn't have to be literal all the time. It can be with people, like "this person feels this certain way, so they will probably be like this" (which is based on other experiences I've had). It works both way with finding similarities and also with filtering out experiences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    How would a person know they don't want to cheat or be violent? Or rather, how do you know you don't want to cheat or be violent? Is it by projecting yourself into the future or some theoretical situation and seeing that this would be unpleasant an experience for you? Or is it like you just feel that you don't want these things? Have you always known you didn't want to cheat or be violent?
    I guess that they wouldn't know until they got put into a situation where you had the opportunity to cheat or be violent. You can prevent yourself from doing those things, but the thought will occur still which is still a problem.

    The thought of cheating doesn't really occur to me, and I try to also prevent external factors that would make that possible. Like if I'm with someone I tend to shy away from getting to know new women unless it's for some purpose like I work with them or have a class with them. I don't cheat because I don't want it to be done to me and it's really disrespectful, and also if you cheat that means you aren't happy in your relationship, so why are you there in the first place? If the thought of being with someone else ever comes up you may as well just leave, because things will just get worse than they already are. I think that along with avoiding situations that would give me the opportunity, I also avoid relationships themselves where I wouldn't be happy so I wouldn't do those kinds of things. I don't have to put myself into the situation where I would be cheating because that's having that thought... I don't really even think about what other people look like naked or what they would be like in that way if I'm with someone.

    I think that if anyone cheats they don't know what they want for themselves and aren't emotionally ready for a relationship period. This can mean immaturity or that they just don't need one and should sleep with a lot of people to be happy.

    As for violence, well, I have had a few violent episodes, but that's only when I'm pushed to that point.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  6. #6
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinker85 View Post
    How do you perceive your mortality? Is it something you just don't think about? But as you get older isn't it inescapable to think of death and aging? What causes you to think about death and aging? It's really challenging for me to understand how an SP might think about these things.
    I used to think about mortality often while ironically not taking it seriously enough. Then, something caused me to think about it so seriously that I prefer not to think about it anymore. I think it's enough to consider it once -- very seriously -- acknowledge it as an eventual reality, and then focus on doing everything you want (and can) do before it realizes.

    I'd imagine an SP just wouldn't really think about their past or even their future much. It'd be like you just are what you are right now. But does that also mean you take for granted that what you were isn't what you are now? Or do you think that you've always pretty much been the same person you are right now?
    I think everyone thinks about their past and future.

    As for past vs present vs future: er... There's a quote by Anne Rice that I really like...

    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

    How do you respond when you felt certain you understood a situation only to find out later that you didn't?
    Either really stupid or really short-sighted for a while. Then move on?

    Do you tend to put a lot of trust in what your gut tells you about situations?
    Not as much as I should.

    Do you think how you responded as an eight year old is more or less how you respond now?
    Yes and no. The emotional response is generally the same, but how I handle it now is entirely different.

    Do you tend to think that people don't change? Is someone who is convicted of a violent crime always someone capable of committing the same ruthless act of violence and the purpose of prison is to create a punishment that forces them to control their violent tendencies? Or can a person's perspective and how they relate to life on a deeper level be changed to where they no longer have a gut response of violence to the same situation they may have before?
    I think it varies for every person. I try not to think too much about other people when it comes to these things though, because only the person best knows himself and what he's capable of.

  7. #7
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Given the function setup, I would imagine ISxP's may think about mortality more than some INxP's and on a deeper level.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
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    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  8. #8
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    How do you perceive your mortality? Is it something you just don't think about?'

    I don't really think about it.

    But as you get older isn't it inescapable to think of death and aging? Not really. I do think about aging because I notice more aches and pains than when I was younger but on the whole, no they aren't connected.

    What causes you to think about death and aging? I don't think of these things in a philosophical broad sense. I don't think death is something worth thinking about. It might happen when you least expect it and you can't stop what's coming to us all eventually. So no use having it occupy my thoughts.

    does that also mean you take for granted that what you were isn't what you are now? Or do you think that you've always pretty much been the same person you are right now?

    I don't take it for granted. There is no dissection between me then and me now. I am a progression of what my experiences teach me.

    How do you respond when you felt certain you understood a situation only to find out later that you didn't? Has this never happened to you? You'll have to be specific about what kind of situation. This could go a lot of different ways.

    Do you tend to put a lot of trust in what your gut tells you about situations? Yes. It even overrides logical analysis.


    Do you tend to think that people don't change?
    People can change if they want too. This takes a degree of self-critique. That is uncomfortable work. Most people don't want to work that hard.

    Is someone who is convicted of a violent crime always someone capable of committing the same ruthless act of violence and the purpose of prison is to create a punishment that forces them to control their violent tendencies? Or can a person's perspective and how they relate to life on a deeper level be changed to where they no longer have a gut response of violence to the same situation they may have before?


    There are some things I disagree with here. First, prison is a violent place and it does not force anyone to control their tendencies. Second, I don't think people who react with violence do so because it is a "gut reaction". These people who commit violent crimes are fairly deliberate when making the choices they do. If they are saying it was a gut reaction that caused it, then they aren't taking responsibility.

    I'll tell you about my old boss. He used to be a drug dealer. Had a long wrap sheet. Convicted felon. He had violent crimes such as aggravated assault charges, drug charges, weapons charges. When he was in the hiring process the owner of my business had him go through each charge and explain what happened. After he was completely satisfied that my boss was reformed and chalked that up to youthful delinquency, he hired him. Less than a year later he found that this person stole at least 50,000 from his business. You know, he was a likeable guy. These people are smart, manipulative and disarming. They are not one-trick pony's. They reinvent themselves but generally their core values remain the same. Can people change? Yes. Do most people change? No.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  9. #9
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Can people change? Yes. Do most people change? No.
    yes, exactly.
    -end of thread-

  10. #10
    Senior Member Pinker85's Avatar
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    Randomnity,

    I wanted to clarify that I try not to assume I know what other people are experiencing or thinking. I know I think about mortality etc. and to me it seems very natural to think about these things but it may not be so natural for other people. I'm not at all trying to say SPs lack the depth/neuroticism required to be broody about death.

    I'm curious how you say that how you responded as an eight year isn't how you respond now. How do you know? I mean what is the thought process that happens for you to know that you don't respond the same way now as you did then? Do you recall a situation from when you were younger that you believe you'd handle differently now? What has caused you to change? Is there a specific occurrence you wouldn't mind sharing? Was it gradual or did the changes occur through flashes of insight?

    I know how I'd answer all these questions but I don't want to assume that how I come to know the answers to these questions is the same as how you might. I really don't know. It strikes me as miraculous and wonderful that I don't . . . that we're different, yet here we are interacting (please excuse my NF moment) and trying to understand.


    Blackcat,

    Your avatar is interesting. Why did you choose that avatar in particular? I hope you feel less isolated now. Feeling isolated is such a painful thing to feel. It sounds good that you are getting back in touch with your family. I hope that is going well and is a nourishing experience for you. Thinking about what you've said so far and trying to understand. I think you've provided a lot of insight but it's taking me time to process what you've told me without trying to first fit it into these pre-existing slots.

    So it sounds like you feel you turned inward more due to feeling isolated/rejected in the environment you grew up in? You became much more driven to understand the reasons behind your actions/personality to help explain why you felt isolated? If you hadn't felt so isolated/rejected it seems you believe you wouldn't have been in an FiNi loop? There would be less confusion about your identity.

    I can really relate to thinking about pets more than some family members. I wasn't close with my grandfather on my mother's side since he lived thousands of miles away and I'd only seen him a handful of times. I was much more upset when my dog died than when he died. I think especially when a pet from childhood dies that you are close with it's just a really special type of loss. It's interesting that since you seem to have a different way of thinking of people/animals that have passed it allows you to contemplate their loss from different perspectives. I can't even contemplate their not having been part of my life because that's just way too painful.

    How do you think it is you know these things? Do you think it is a psychic power or is that you just read people very well? Similar to how a person that is a genius at mechanical things might in burst of insight understand how to fix or make something mechanical. It isn't magical but may to others seem that way. Do you find that you need more experiences to help refine this ability? How long does it take you to form these gut reactions? Do you find that the length of time is dependent on prior experiences with people that seem similar to this person?

    It seems so mysterious to have this gift of reading people. I feel as though I really just don't know at all which is why I ask people so many questions to help understand their perspective and from that build a model as to how they might possibly be interacting with life (knowing the model is very rudimentary and most likely flawed). It takes a lot of effort for me to understand other people's perspectives. I know I could project my experience onto them but that wouldn't be what they are actually experiencing. It's really interesting.

    Interesting perspective on cheating. It seems in fitting with the "right this moment" SP way of relating I've read about. Because if you seem to use what you feel this moment to moderate your behavior than it seems if you wake up tomorrow and want to cheat on your partner you think it is time to move on. So you aren't projecting yourself into the past or future as in thinking of how you share a history or how you want to grow old with this person etc. It just is right now. Am I understanding that correctly?


    Noon,

    If you don't mind sharing, what was the experience? How long did this contemplating death last? How exactly did you think about death? I mean was it like you thought about yourself and it was a visual experience (imagining yourself dying) or more philosophical? Did you experience fear? Panic? I'm curious what your interaction with mortality was.

    Would you explain the Anne Rice quote? Do you think we're fated to be certain ways? Born and set on a course to be a certain way? Like destiny?

    Does realizing you were wrong make you question whether assumptions you've been making are inaccurate? Does thinking about this cause you to want to challenge those assumptions?

    Thanks for your insights and answering.


    Shortnsweet,

    Possibly. Explain if you don't mind.


    MDP,

    Do you think this sort-of eventuality and not being able to control it so you'll go with the flow philosophy carries over to other areas of your life? Or is death the only aspect of life you find to be an inevitability? Do you desire at all living as long as possible? Do you ever consider changing the way you currently live to help you live to an old age? Would you cut out alcohol and meat if you found out it would help extend your life by five years? I guess my curiosity is that you seem so copacetic with your eventual death that you wouldn't really be concerned about maintaining your health rigorously through lifestyle changes etc.?

    I guess that's the curious thing . . . understanding how you interact with the you from the past and you now in your mind. How does the change occur though between who you were then and who you are now. Did you always sort-of have a general sense as to what you believed in and thought and how you interacted with the world? You've expressed a similar feeling to several other SPs of thinking people can change but it just isn't likely because it takes so much effort. So were you always fundamentally the person you are now? Or did you put effort into changing? I'm sorry if you've made yourself clear and I'm just not understanding.

    So the gut reactions you had as a six year old are just as solid as they are now? How did you develop such an implicit trust in your gut? Do you think you are born with a sort-of knowledge or instinct about these things and this is your gut? Has your gut ever led you in the wrong direction? What is a gut reaction like for you?

    An example would be your gut telling you something about someone only to find out later it was a cultural difference. To me the gut reads small behavioral cues and processes new information based on prior experience. This can mean misunderstanding someone if you haven't interacted much with their personality type or have a cultural background very different from your own.

    I think by "gut reaction of violence" I mean that if you think of life as a struggle where everyone is out to get you than you respond to others very reactively. That's one example of it. I think people assume a lot about the world and in changing those assumptions they change and their reactions change.

    Interesting experience with your ex-boss. It sounds like it was stressful for everyone involved and unpleasant. I mean also on like the level that it's difficult I think when we want to put our faith and trust in a person to have changed and they end up proving otherwise. But perhaps as an SP your response is very different than this.

    I think I'm asking a lot of questions. Please don't feel imposed on to answer all of them. I appreciate any feedback.

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